Damon for Crede?

[Cocos Disciples]

Rumors of Damon/Crede Swap Heating Up

4th November, 2007 - 4:59 pm

MVN - Buster Olney of ESPN.com has mentioned a possible Johnny Damon for Joe Crede deal between the Yankees and White Sox.

 

The Chicago White Sox would be able to solve their "third base logjam" and would be able to acquire a center-fielder who is going to cost quite a bit less than any free-agent center fielder that the White Sox are interested in. Damon is due $26M throughout the next two years, and the Yankees would surely eat some of the salary to make the deal work.

 

As for the Yankees, acquiring a veteran third baseman was their ideal choice this off-season, and Crede brings this. He also won’t cost anywhere near what Mike Lowell is set to cost. As for Damon’s open position, Melky Cabrera will do quite well with a full-time jo

 

Haha, Crede is awful. Career averages: .259 AVG, .305 OBP, .446 SLG.

[26 to 6]

I'll make that deal.

[Cocos Disciples]

Explain your reasoning please. I do not think its a good deal. Crede is a mediocre player. He has power, but his OBP is awful. I suppose in the specific situation the Yankees are in, with Cabrera in the wings and the lack of a 3B, it makes sense...but still, not a fan of the value.

[jacksonianmarch]

I like the idea of Crede. His IsoPower and HR totals have increased 3 yrs in a row until he was injured last yr. He also doesnt strike out often at all. Then again, he doesnt walk either. But he would provide some right sided balance to a team that will be loaded with lefties. Also, he is about as good a defensive 3b as you will find.

 

Losing Damon will hurt IMO. I like his capability to carry a team out of the leadoff spot. But he is 34, has shown that he can no longer stay healthy and has had 2 consective down yrs OBP wise out of the leadoff spot. And one of his best assets, speed, has already shown decline. Plus, with his arm being absolutely horrible and his legs slowing, he isnt an asset in the OF anymore.

 

For Crede, the injury issue is tricky. He has a back injury and that is a scary proposition. But in a deal that takes from one of our strengths and fills a hole, you gotta think about it at least. I'd do it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Explain your reasoning please. I do not think its a good deal. Crede is a mediocre player. He has power' date=' but his OBP is awful. I suppose in the specific situation the Yankees are in, with Cabrera in the wings and the lack of a 3B, it makes sense...but still, not a fan of the value.[/quote']

 

I love the idea of Crede. Think about it. Was a big time contributor to a WS championship team. He is 29 yrs old. He is a fantastic defender. He bats right handed, hits for a good amount of power, and is right handed on a mostly lefty hitting team.

 

He isnt an all star. But the all star all the time teams have failed for 7 consecutive yrs. This is the kind of guy who is solid, provided he is healthy.

 

I just didnt want to give up a lot for him. And when you talk about dealing a mid 30s, declining, injury prone, DH who gets way more cash than he deserves, why not?

 

If we had Damon in CF and nobody to cover the position, then I wouldnt do this deal. But with Melky being one of the better defensive CFers in the game and developing offensively, you dont need Damon in CF. In RF, Damon's arm would be such a detriment that he wouldnt be useful. In LF, his speed is nice, but his arm also kills him. And when you have Abreu in RF and Matsui in LF, Damon really doesnt hold a candle to them offensively. It is dealing a guy we'd have to fight to get into the lineup for a guy we could pencil in for the entire yr. You do it every time.

[TheKilo]

lol please trade for Crede

[jacksonianmarch]

.283 30HR 90RBI was his last full season. His career average in 162 games is .259 25HR 85RBI. Nothing to scoff at.

[ORS]

Isn't that what Betemit will do for you? So, you are OK with trading a guy you want to keep in order to get a guy who will do what someone on your roster will already do? I smell ballwashing. The wagons are circled and everything will get defended by you right now.

[a700hitter]

I hope they do it. Damon will be completely healthy to start the season and should be able to reclaim his status as a lead off catalyst. Let him do it for the White Sox.

[jacksonianmarch]

Isn't that what Betemit will do for you? So' date=' you are OK with trading a guy you want to keep in order to get a guy who will do what someone on your roster will already do? I smell ballwashing. The wagons are circled and everything will get defended by you right now.[/quote']

 

If we dont acquire another 3b, I dont have a problem with Betemit. But with Crede, we'd move Betemit to 1b where he would be in a platoon with Duncan. And Giambi will be the DH.

[jacksonianmarch]

I hope they do it. Damon will be completely healthy to start the season and should be able to reclaim his status as a lead off catalyst. Let him do it for the White Sox.

 

Damon was completely healthy when this season started too. You guys warned us of this. He breaks down. He has for 2 seasons now.

[a700hitter]

Damon was completely healthy when this season started too. You guys warned us of this. He breaks down. He has for 2 seasons now.

I don't think you have any complaints about his 2006 performance?

[jacksonianmarch]

Just to back up my point.

Over the past 3 seasons..

 

Betemit vs Righties .277/.355/.841

Betemit vs Lefties .227/.277/.631

 

Duncan vs lefties .303/.378/.984 (and had .900+ OPS vs lefties for the third straight yr)

Duncan vs Righties .220/..289/.801

[riverside sluggers]

If the Yankees take themselves out of the running for Lowell, it would then be down to Boston and Philly

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I'd love to see Joe Crede get traded to the Yankees because that means they won't be looking at Mike Lowell or Alex Rodriguez which gives the Red Sox a huge advantage to signing one if not both players.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think we should if Crede is an option. To be honest with you, when you take into account the splits, I dont think Lowell will do any better than Crede while playing in YS for a few yrs. Also, Crede is 4 yrs younger.

[example1]

lol please trade for Crede

 

Yes... substitute Crede in the batting order for A-Rod, and lose Johnny Damon in the process.

 

I LOVE it!

[riverside sluggers]

Yes... substitute Crede in the batting order for A-Rod, and lose Johnny Damon in the process.

 

I LOVE it!

 

There is still the real possibility that Jorge Posada also leaves. The Yankees are believed to be offering him 3 years/$40 million, the Mets however are gearing up to go hard after him

 

If Damon is traded for Crede, and Jorge resigns

Melky Cabera cf

Derek Jeter ss

Bobby Abreu rf

Joe Crede 3b

Jorge Posada c

Hideki Matsui lf

Jason Giambi dh

Robinson Cano 2b

Andy Phillips/Shelley Duncan 1b

[26 to 6]

I love how everyone here is speaking so highly of JD. All of you Sox fans said how s***** he was gonna be after signing with the Yankees, and we've already started to see a decline.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Damon at the top of our order, but I do believe that we need to rid ourselves of one of our old, overpaid outfielders (to make room for Bernie on the bench haha) and geta solid 3B.

[26 to 6]

There is still the real possibility that Jorge Posada also leaves. The Yankees are believed to be offering him 3 years/$40 million' date=' the Mets however are gearing up to go hard after him[/quote']

It'll be interesting to see how the Yanks and Mets compete for him.

 

He has said some things sort of backing Joe Girardi the past week or so, which leads me to believe there is still a good-great chance he stays in pinstripes

[example1]

I think we should if Crede is an option. To be honest with you' date=' when you take into account the splits, I dont think Lowell will do any better than Crede while playing in YS for a few yrs. Also, Crede is 4 yrs younger.[/quote']

 

:lol:

 

I didn't see that post before.

 

Career numbers:

[table] Name|AVG|OBP|SLG

Crede|.259|.305|.446

Lowell|.280|.344|.468[/table]

 

Career highs:

[table] Name | AVG | OBP | SLG

Crede | .283 | .323 | .506

Lowell | .324 | .378 | .530 [/table]

 

Now, if I were a betting man (which I'm not, but the Yankees are), I'd go with the guy whose OBP trends closer to .360-.380. With a career high of .323 and recent OBPs of .308, .299, .303, .323, .258 over the past 5 years, Crede gets on base less than Wily Mo Pena, and has a lower Slugging Percentage. Also, while he's younger than Lowell, he's pushing 30; by 30 I think you should have a pretty good idea what type of on-base/plate control skills a player has.

[yankees228]

There is still the real possibility that Jorge Posada also leaves. The Yankees are believed to be offering him 3 years/$40 million' date=' the Mets however are gearing up to go hard after him[/quote']

 

That's true, but I see Posada using the Mets to drive up the price, and then going back to the Yankees. The Yankees will likely more than match anything that the Mets would be willing to give him, simply because the Steinbrenner family would probably be quite upset if they ever lost one of their premiere players to the crosstown rival.

[example1]

I love how everyone here is speaking so highly of JD. All of you Sox fans said how s***** he was gonna be after signing with the Yankees, and we've already started to see a decline.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Damon at the top of our order, but I do believe that we need to rid ourselves of one of our old, overpaid outfielders (to make room for Bernie on the bench haha) and geta solid 3B.

 

Oh, don't get us wrong. Damon isn't a very good player, and many of us were right that he was gonna be s***** after signing with the Yankees. And it would be great for you guys to move him to get rid of his non-CF playing contract. That said, he's still a much more valuable "Yankee type" hitter than Crede, who can't get on base to save his life. The idea of replacing A-Rod with Crede by dealing Damon feels like a great unraveling, and it is enjoyable to see. Don't see that joy as us being happy that Big-Bad Johnny Damon is gone. It's mostly fun to watch things fall apart.

[jacksonianmarch]

:lol:

 

I didn't see that post before.

 

Career numbers:

[table] Name|AVG|OBP|SLG

Crede|.259|.305|.446

Lowell|.280|.344|.468[/table]

 

Career highs:

[table] Name | AVG | OBP | SLG

Crede | .283 | .323 | .506

Lowell | .324 | .378 | .530 [/table]

 

Now, if I were a betting man (which I'm not, but the Yankees are), I'd go with the guy whose OBP trends closer to .360-.380. With a career high of .323 and recent OBPs of .308, .299, .303, .323, .258 over the past 5 years, Crede gets on base less than Wily Mo Pena, and has a lower Slugging Percentage. Also, while he's younger than Lowell, he's pushing 30; by 30 I think you should have a pretty good idea what type of on-base/plate control skills a player has.

 

 

In terms of OBP, no comparison. But in terms of power, Lowell hit 16 of his 20 HRs in either Fenway or Toronto. Both VERY right friendly places. His away splits suck. I am afraid that he may be a product of his park, and if that is a case, he is WAY more valuable to the red sox than he is to anybody else.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is still the real possibility that Jorge Posada also leaves. The Yankees are believed to be offering him 3 years/$40 million, the Mets however are gearing up to go hard after him

 

If Damon is traded for Crede, and Jorge resigns

Melky Cabera cf

Derek Jeter ss

Bobby Abreu rf

Joe Crede 3b

Jorge Posada c

Hideki Matsui lf

Jason Giambi dh

Robinson Cano 2b

Andy Phillips/Shelley Duncan 1b

 

Shelley Duncan and Wilson Betemit will platoon. Betemit hits righties very well and Duncan mashes lefties.

[example1]

In terms of OBP' date=' no comparison. But in terms of power, Lowell hit 16 of his 20 HRs in either Fenway or Toronto. Both VERY right friendly places. His away splits suck. I am afraid that he may be a product of his park, and if that is a case, he is WAY more valuable to the red sox than he is to anybody else.[/quote']

 

I am afraid that your claim may be a product of a poor search my friend. I took one further step and looked at his home/away splits from 06.

 

Home: .260 .327 .436 .763

Away: .310 .352 .514 .866

 

Looks like he did pretty well away from Fenway last year, and hit 11 of his 20 HR on the road as well.

 

So, in terms of OBP, no comparison (which is the most important thing, unless the discrepancy between SLGs is really significant, which it isn't), and in terms of being a Fenway-only product, I think not. One need only look at his 03 season where he spent very little time in Fenway to know that this man can hit outside of Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

he was 4 yrs younger in 03.

[ORS]

Anyone else get the image of Matt Dillon in Something About Mary when Jacko does all of his one line quantifiers after he shits himself with a post?

 

I thought you said she was a real spark plug?

 

Oh. No, I said butt plug.

 

A veritable czar of ********.

[YAZMAN]

he was 4 yrs younger in 03.

 

Your ability to analyze the numbers is amazing! Uncanny!!!

[jacksonianmarch]

I guess I like Crede most because he reminds me of Brosius except younger and better. Plays great defense, has some power from the right side, and makes good contact. Plus, until he got hurt this past yr, he showed improvement 3 yrs running. In the past offseason, the white sox pulled away from the trade table with the Angels after they offered Figgins and a prospect. Now, we can get him for a guy who doesnt even have a spot in our lineup? You do that 10 times out of 10.