Now might be the perfect time to rebuild

[jacksonianmarch]

You know what Yankee fans, it might be time to do something none of us ever wanted to see (except me about 3 yrs ago, but who is counting). It might be time to....REBUILD.

 

And we have the absolutely perfect opportunity. Looking at our rotation, we have the potential to have 3 rookies in our rotation next season. If we dont do something to change that (like resign Pettitte and then deal for Santana) then we are likely to go through a rough patch as all rookies have their inconsistencies. But overall, a rotation with Wang, Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy looks like it could really be something in a year or two. Hell, it might even be great now, but lets stay in reality here.

 

Our offense has 2 guys in it who look like they could be awesome players for yrs to come in Melky and Cano. But the rest of the offense is over 32 or unproven (Betemit and Duncan) and the help in the lower levels is at least 2 yrs away.

 

The bullpen was unproven all yr and only got more unproven with Proctor being dealt. And while some of the pitchers out there have fantastic arms, it may take awhile for them to gel and become the pitchers that they could become.

 

All of this is happening while the free agent market is just god awful. There is one closer worth throwing money at who is not named Mariano (Cordero). The lefty options begin and end with a 41 yr old soft tosser named Rheal. The rotation options look worse and the offensive options have 2 CFers, one who is coming off his worst season and the other who has trouble staying healthy and isnt young either. The rest of the options suck. So if we are going to "improve" it will be through the trade route and would thin out our minor league stock. All the while knowing that status quo just isnt working.

 

So, with the veterans trying to hold management hostage for the return of our braindead manager, why not just let these guys walk?

 

Mariano, Pettitte, ARod, Abreu, Posada. All arb eligible if they walk and all type A free agents. Throw in Vizcaino, who would be a type B, and you have what could amount to 5 first round picks (depending on who signs them) and 6 sandwich rounders. This doesnt include our own pick at #28. Throw in the fact that this draft is supposedly deep in prep pitching and college hitting (weak as s*** in college pitching though) and we could take our pitching deep farm system and load up on long range prospects and take our relatively thin short term offensive farm and infuse some closer range talent. Plus, we would considerably decrease the average age of the team which could make this team healthier in the long run.

 

Now I know the yankees fans wouldnt appreciate that, but I sure as hell would. I remember the days of Guetterman, Tartabull, Pagliarulo and the rest and I dont want to slip into those days anymore. No more 1 and done playoff visits. No more AARP members. No more ********. Lets relive the mid 90s when the farm started pumping out HOFers and All stars and were the building blocks of trades that put us over the top. And it would drop the bandwagoners off the bus and restore the foundation of the club for yrs to come. And to those who want to stop the sox at all costs, well, I hear your point, but if we stop the sox then promptly exit with nothing but a participation banner, then f*** it. This is the best way to win it all, and if the inch deep fans dont want anything to do with it, then let em go.

[Cocos Disciples]

Even if its a good idea, wouldn't happen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Even if its a good idea' date=' wouldn't happen.[/quote']

 

I know it wouldnt happen all at once. I have a feeling half of those guys come back at least with the possibility that all of them do. I am just saying, right now might be a nice time since our projected rotation will go through some growing pains next yr.

[Gom]

Thank you God that Jacko is in NO POSITION to affect the Yankees front office.

 

Dude, are you nuts? The Yankees do not rebuild under the current structure. They retool. The same goes for the Sox.

 

The Yankees will have up and down years, but with the new decree of building up the farm system, they won't ever have to rebuild. They brought up Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy this year. The last two years, they have brought up Cano, Cabrera, and Wang. They have Sanchez, Horne, and Tabata in the wings. This year they drafted Brackman.

 

Now, the majority of the players won't be stars. However, I expect to see an impact player ever year for the foreseeable future. Coupled with what they have, and what they can afford, this is a 90 win team for a long, long time. Even if they lose Arod. Even when Posada and Rivera leave/retire. Even when Jeter starts sucking big time, and the post-season choke by him becomes the norm.

 

Why on earth do you want us to become the Pirates. Teams with big budgets fix on the fly because they CAN. Right now, we hope that Pettitte comes back. But in two years, you could be looking at a rotation that will consist of five of the following pitchers: Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Sanchez, Horne and possibly Brackman. You will have an outfield that has Tabata and Cabrera. What is this retooling ******** you are spewing?

 

You think because we have a first round pick it means something? Holy s***, the majority of first round picks don't make the majors. The entire draft isn't worth an Arod. Get real. Seriously, why support the Yankees if you are about a farm system, Jacko? You have this belief that because we got lucky with Bernie, Mariano, Jeter, etc., that it can be replicated with ease again. It's a numbers game, the more money you throw into the draft, the better your odds.

 

The Yankees are worth close to 3 billion dollars, when you count YES. You want them to rebuild? Why, so the owners can put more money in their pockets? What planet are you from? You are willing to let their players go for DRAFT PICKS???????

 

What the last few seasons have convinced me is that the "aura" of the post-season is just luck. As you add in more teams, you increase the luck factor. Simple mathematics. The Yankees were not the dominant team that they are perceived to be in the late 90's. They just had an inordinate amount of luck. That's why they won 4 of 5. It's bad luck why they lost the last seven. Looking at the big picture, they have won four WS in the thirteen years of the wild card format. So basically, 25% of the time. You know how many teams make the post-season? 8. What's that percentage? 12.5%. So they are above the curve.

 

They blew it. Fine. The goal is to make the post-season. After that, there is a lot of luck involved. Jeffery Maier. Flying ants. Steve Barman, etc, etc.

 

A team wins 94 games. They [considering none of their free agents leave] will lose a 45 year old pitcher as their only "impact" player, and have three potential replacements. Their hitters are in the prime of their careers. Seriously, do you even get it Jacko?

 

I'm a NEW YORK Yankee fan, not Scranton-Wilkes Barre Yankee fan. You have been spewing this s*** about rebuilding and a farm system since I've been here, and you're lost. The idea of ANY FARM SYSTEM is to support the major league club. Not the other way around. You think the Twins or A's WANT to give up their stars and get draft picks? They have no choice by their edict sent from management. You think if Steinbrenner owned the Twins, that Santana would be going anywhere, or if he owned the A's that Giambi, Damon, Hudson, Mulder, or Zito would have gone anywhere? Wake up. Stop self-medicating.

 

What you are stating has convinced me to never get sick if you will be my doctor. Seriously.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gom, they are old guys who could fall off the map at any point. The only guy who would be leaving who I'd really want back (ARod) may be leaving anyway.

 

Also, I do know the percentage. About half of all first rounders make it to the majors. BUT, with the current draft structure, who says we need to take guys who are the 16th best with the 16th pick. Remember, we have been drafting guys who are much, much better than their draft positions for 3 yrs now since we have invested more money than anyone in the draft. If you increase the picks but continually pluck the expensive, top tier players, you arent just getting first round talent, you are getting superstar talent later in the draft. This wouldnt be drafting a tweener late in the first round. This would be drafting a guy who should be going top 3 but fell 15 spots due to salary demands.

[ARod2212]

I admire your outside the box thinking, but I can't sign off on it. There's too much talent and a chance to win next year for me to start planning for 3 years from now, and saying 'f*** it' to next season. While I think it would be awesome to build another dynastic team through the draft, it'd be tough to pass on all those guaranteed stars the next 3 seasons that we'll have.

 

And what are the odds on drafting somebody of Rodriguez' caliber, even if you have every pick in the 1st round?

[jacksonianmarch]

Like I said about Rodriguez, he ultimately decides if he wants to stay, and with the recent comments by Boras and that eery look that ARod had prior to leaving the field (have you seen the pic), I dont think he is coming back. He was the last to leave the dugout as he essentially just looked around the field, at the fans, all over. I think that was his goodbye.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Yankees dont need to rebuild. They still have Jeter, Matsui, Damon, Giambi(God I hope they can dump him) Mussina all under contract. Retool is what they do and is what they will do.

[BudLight]

Doc, I have to disagree. A team that leads MLB in runs, Hits, OBP, SLG, AVG and RBI, that is 4th overall and 1st in the AL in HRs does not need to rebuild. Slowly infusing the young talent like they did this year with Duncan and last year with Cabrera is the way to go. These guys get some major league experience and will be ready to take over when the vets depart. The problem with the Yankees is PITCHING!!! They rely on washed up vets and have no one to properly manage the growth of their young talent. Guidry is not up to the task and although I appreciate all Joe has done, he cannot manage a pitching staff or bullpen. While I personally do not care for LaRussa, I also cannot deny the job he and Duncan have done with young pitchers in St. Louis (except Ankiel). They may be the best answer for the Yankees going forward.

[Mr Crunchy]

Yankees dont need to rebuild. They still have Jeter' date=' Matsui, Damon, Giambi(God I hope they can dump him) Mussina all under contract. Retool is what they do and is what they will do.[/quote']

 

the above guys are all done my man

damon is a catalyst who cant do it every day anymore

jetsey is a 325 banjo hitter with limited range at short

mussina is a middle reliever albeit expensive and giambi and matsui are just plain finished

they should tank for a year..

 

the sox used to religously lead baseball in runs scored

i bet in the 86 years they failed they led baseball in scoring more than any other team

the rangers took over that mantle a few years back and they accomplished nothing either

 

its still pitching,always will be

softball teams never win and we here in boston know this better than most

christ

we had butch hobson hit 30hrs in the 9 hole 1 summer and didnt make the playoffs

[jacksonianmarch]

BL, what happens if the above players who are FA's demand that Torre return or they'll go elsewhere? If they do that, then I'd shake their hand, wish them luck and take the picks.

[Mr Crunchy]

BL' date=' what happens if the above players who are FA's demand that Torre return or they'll go elsewhere? If they do that, then I'd shake their hand, wish them luck and take the picks.[/quote']

 

count on some people moving on if joe leaves

some of it is just posturing but some is sincere

who is bluffing?

this is the issue

[jacksonianmarch]

count on some people moving on if joe leaves

some of it is just posturing but some is sincere

who is bluffing?

this is the issue

 

I think this will be the true test of Cashman's ability. If he lets the players determine who is best for the leader of the franchise, then he is just as bad as George. Cash has been good at leaving emotions out of the picture, he needs to continue this.

[BudLight]

BL' date=' what happens if the above players who are FA's demand that Torre return or they'll go elsewhere? If they do that, then I'd shake their hand, wish them luck and take the picks.[/quote']

 

 

Players should not and cannot dictate to a GM and owner who they want for a manager. Players play for whoever ownership deems to be the appropriate manager for their organization. Joe has had a great run in NY, he is a super person who has handled the pressure of working for the Yankees with seasoned aplomb. I respect what he has been able to accomplish despite George Steinbrenner and the Tampa mob. The team chemistry is changing, the influx of youth is paramount to the teams future success. We have been trying for 10 years now to achieve success by overpaying for mostly washed up talent. It's time for the youth movement, to grow our own. With that movement comes the reality that you need a manager who can manage the younger players. IMHO, Joe Torre is not that manager. He is very good with veterans but not with the youngsters. Again, thanks Joe for all you have done for the Yankee organization, but it's now time to move on.

[YAZMAN]

Yankees dont need to rebuild. They still have Jeter' date=' Matsui, Damon, Giambi(God I hope they can dump him) Mussina all under contract. Retool is what they do and is what they will do.[/quote']

 

I thought "retool" was what happened to the board when bbdoc signed up again with a different username?

[YAZMAN]

BTW, what's up, BB?

[BudLight]

BTW' date=' what's up, BB?[/quote']

 

Not much going on here Yaz. Just waiting for St. Louis to get a football team in the dome. On that note:

 

(From St. Louis, MO) - A seven-year old boy was at the center of a St.

Louis County courtroom drama this morning, when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulation requiring that family unity be maintained to the highest degree possible.

> > > > > > >* >

> > The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat

> > him

more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried and said that they also beat him. After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him.

> > > > > > > >

> > After two recesses to check legal references and confer with the

> > child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the St.

Louis Rams, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone.

[rician blast]

(have you seen the pic)' date=' I dont think he is coming back. He was the last to leave the dugout as he essentially just looked around the field, at the fans, all over. [/quote']

 

Could just be that he knew or assumed that the camera was on him...he's pretty dramatic, you know, and could have had a fine career as an actor, perhaps playing a preening, prime-time, self-absorbed, self-important athlete, who, during the playoffs, fails to come through in the clutch.

 

Oh wait...that's real life.

[jacksonianmarch]

Could just be that he knew or assumed that the camera was on him...he's pretty dramatic, you know, and could have had a fine career as an actor, perhaps playing a preening, prime-time, self-absorbed, self-important athlete, who, during the playoffs, fails to come through in the clutch.

 

Oh wait...that's real life.

 

or they could have thrown a wig on him and done a lifetime special of the shemale who is never appreciated as much as heshe thinks heshe should be.

[rician blast]

Either way, Jacks, he'd pull it off cuz "the camera loves him".

[Gom]

Gom, they are old guys who could fall off the map at any point. The only guy who would be leaving who I'd really want back (ARod) may be leaving anyway.

 

Also, I do know the percentage. About half of all first rounders make it to the majors. BUT, with the current draft structure, who says we need to take guys who are the 16th best with the 16th pick. Remember, we have been drafting guys who are much, much better than their draft positions for 3 yrs now since we have invested more money than anyone in the draft. If you increase the picks but continually pluck the expensive, top tier players, you arent just getting first round talent, you are getting superstar talent later in the draft. This wouldnt be drafting a tweener late in the first round. This would be drafting a guy who should be going top 3 but fell 15 spots due to salary demands.

You don't give up talent at the major league level, ALL-STAR TALENT, for a draft pick. EVER. End of discussion.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is 2 draft picks and it is all star talent at the end of their careers. You cannot sit there and tell me that these guys are going to be all star talent next yr. This worries me. If this was Mo at 30, then hell yeah I resign him. But this is Mo at 38, this is Posada at 37. Father time will catch up with both of them eventually and sooner rather than later.

[Gom]

Stop smoking crack Jacko. These are All-Star players. For the 1 millionth time, we are not the Kansas City Royals.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are right. The KC royals continually pick in the top 5 but draft late round talent for signability purposes. Then they dont sign outside talent and continually fail with the farm system that a team like the yankees should have, ie a team that choose late in rounds every yr. We dont have to go the Royals route. If you cherry pick the best players out of one draft, sign them all above slot, then you will develop a bunch of major league players and who knows, maybe an all star here and there. I just dont like the idea of locking in long term on a deal with a 37 yr old catcher and a closer who will be in his 40s when the deal he wants would finish. Take the picks, build from within and cherry pick the FAs available when needed. Hell, I'll give up the yankees #28 pick for F. Cordero (who is 6 yrs younger than Mo) lose Mo via FA and gain a mid 1st round pick and a sandwich pick.

[Mr Crunchy]

some will stay some will go

and ny will compete next year with the young uns and a better mussina

kei igawa may produce better too

[jacksonianmarch]

some will stay some will go

and ny will compete next year with the young uns and a better mussina

kei igawa may produce better too

 

I have a feeling Igawa gets converted to relief. He was very good in his first inning of work and always seemed to start strong, then get figured out later in the game. I'd put him and Rasner in the long slots and then fill the rest of the pen accordingly. Part of what killed us was having nobody slated to go a few innings out of the pen. Torre always went his set route regardless of the score and it burned out our pen.

[Mr Crunchy]

its hardly hopeless over there

this f***ing drama is the problem

[jacksonianmarch]

The drama needs to end. I just want to know, is he or isnt he coming back. People always seem to try and blame it on the players and whathaveyou. But his teams the past few seasons have crossed the finish line absolutely exhausted and it mostly has to do with his bullpen management.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

the above guys are all done my man

damon is a catalyst who cant do it every day anymore

jetsey is a 325 banjo hitter with limited range at short

mussina is a middle reliever albeit expensive and giambi and matsui are just plain finished

they should tank for a year..

 

the sox used to religously lead baseball in runs scored

i bet in the 86 years they failed they led baseball in scoring more than any other team

the rangers took over that mantle a few years back and they accomplished nothing either

 

its still pitching,always will be

softball teams never win and we here in boston know this better than most

christ

we had butch hobson hit 30hrs in the 9 hole 1 summer and didnt make the playoffs

Well Jeter isn't done, Matsui hit 25 hr's this year and Damon was better the last 2 months when he was healthy. Both Giambi and Mussina are done. The problem even if they are done or not is getting rid of those contracts and they wont be able to do it. I think going foward the Yankees have Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy. I like the future of that staff.

[jacksonianmarch]

writing Matsui off is premature at best. The guy hit 25 homers in 3/4 of a season and played the last 2 months with a knee he could barely walk on. If that knee is fixable, he will come back strong. If it isnt (like arthritis), then yeah, he is done.