ALCS: Red Sox vs. Indians Discussion Thread

[rician blast]

Jeez, go easy on Dice. After all, look at all the benefit of the doubt Clemens was given despite his proclivity to encounter a problem such as....

 

the blister

a hammy

an elbow

a groin

a temper tantrum (1988? or was it 1990?)

 

in the playoffs.

 

And yet some still talk about Mrs. Dave Stewart as if he were some God-like being as opposed to the big-game gagger he truely is.

[TheKilo]

Actually' date=' since DiceK is going Game 3, in all likelyhood he goes Game 7. I'd say THAT defines his Sox career more.[/quote']

 

If the Sox lose tonight Beckett should be on the hill for game 4. If they do that, he'd pitch Game 7 on normal rest.

[redsoxrules]

If the Sox lose tonight Beckett should be on the hill for game 4. If they do that' date=' he'd pitch Game 7 on normal rest.[/quote']

 

IMO beckett should pitch game 4 no matter what,even if we're up 2-1

[Cocos Disciples]

If the Sox lose tonight Beckett should be on the hill for game 4. If they do that' date=' he'd pitch Game 7 on normal rest.[/quote']

 

Sure, he should, but right now Tito is saying Wake is his Game 4 starter. Ugh.

[Beckett95]

i think it wouldnt be to out of the question to about fire francona at the end of the season. he's made a lot of questionable moves this series, IMO.

 

1. Josh Beckett should have started today, i dont no how u can say otherwise, this team needed a win tonight, not only to have a chance at winning the series, but also to turn the momentum a little bit back to the sox. now they've lost 3 games in a row and need to win 3 games in a row, 2 of which with schilling and Dice-K, who is an absolute mess.

 

2. Jacoby Ellsbury needs to be in the lineup. the bottom of the lineup is absolutely awful and have been automatic outs this series. give ellsbury a shot to play, he atleast gives them some energy instead oif crisp whos hitting .200 in the playoffs and hasnt had a clutch hit yet. Was Ellsbury really that bad in September... i wouldnt even mind seeing Cora play SS tonight

 

3. you also have to question how hes managed the bullpen the last 2 games. Eric Gagne cannot be used in a close game, period. thats a disgrace he started the 10th inning and blew the game. he should be the very last option in that game. I know we didnt have much left in the pen, but i would have gone with lester or wake. Gagne should be the last option. dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that. its not all his fault tho, we need another arm in the pen for the 5th/6th inning.

 

Francona is way to predictable and needs to stop relying on his veterans so much and mix it up a little bit

[a700hitter]

 

Francona is way to predictable and needs to stop relying on his veterans so much and mix it up a little bit

He's got Joe Torre disease without the burnin g the bull pen syndrome.

[Beckett95]

i wouldnt be at all upset if they canned Tito, and Epstein for that matter

 

i wouldnt mind seeing LaRussa with the sox next year

[TheKilo]

i wouldnt be at all upset if they canned Tito, and Epstein for that matter

 

i wouldnt mind seeing LaRussa with the sox next year

 

The idiocy in this post is ASTOUNDING

[Beckett95]

The idiocy in this post is ASTOUNDING

 

ya ur right, Francona is a great manager and Theo made so many good moves this season...

 

Beckett needed to pitch tonight and Ellsbury should be in the lineup over Crisp, id even give Cora a start. if the offense isnt working, switch it up a little.

 

i also dont like how he manages the pen sometimes, but already talked about that so im not going to repeat myself. only good thing about Francona is most of the players love him, so i guess he'd make a great bench coach

 

on Epsteins part, i now its hard to judge him since some of his moves at the time looked good, but not one of them was good in the end.

 

Drew--Bad

Lugo--Bad

Dice-K--Bad

Okajima--Good. but only here cause of Dice-K and if you think otherwise, your retarded

Gagne--At the time, people thought it was good, but a lot of scouts said Gagne was getting luck in Texas and his stuff wasnt as good as it was. Obviously, Theo and the Sox scouts thought otherwise.

 

theres other little things to like re-signing Mirrabelli, but im not gonna get into all those now. think ive made my point

 

epstein is trying to hard to go after the big names, unstead of doing what he did when he first came in, getting guys like millar, mueller, ortiz, etc. then going out and getting a proving vet like schilling. the big name guys havn't really worked out for the sox the last couple of years.

 

only good thing about Francona is most of the players love him, so i guess he'd make a great bench coach

[TheKilo]

ya ur right, Francona is a great manager and Theo made so many good moves this season...

 

Beckett needed to pitch tonight and Ellsbury should be in the lineup over Crisp, id even give Cora a start. if the offense isnt working, switch it up a little.

 

Who traded for Beckett, signed Ellsbury, and even traded for Cora?

 

Have you looked at Cora's offensive numbers this year? Tell me why you want him in over Pedroia?

 

i also dont like how he manages the pen sometimes, but already talked about that so im not going to repeat myself. only good thing about Francona is most of the players love him, so i guess he'd make a great bench coach

 

How does he manage the pen badly? Would you rather he pull a Joe Torre?

 

 

on Epsteins part, i now its hard to judge him since some of his moves at the time looked good, but not one of them was good in the end.

 

So if the moves looked good, and the players didn't execute, how is that Theo's fault?

 

Drew--Bad

 

Who did you want playing RF then?

 

Lugo--Bad

 

This I can't disagree with too badly, but I like the move at the time. Lugo is just really frustrating me.

 

Dice-K--Bad

 

Seriously? I mean, seriously?

 

Okajima--Good. but only here cause of Dice-K and if you think otherwise, your retarded

 

Right, which is why Theo scouted him heavily in Japan. But it's awesome he's DiceK's caddy!!!111lol

 

Gagne--At the time, people thought it was good, but a lot of scouts said Gagne was getting luck in Texas and his stuff wasnt as good as it was. Obviously, Theo and the Sox scouts thought otherwise.

 

Provide me with linked material from these scouts and I'll believe you.

 

theres other little things to like re-signing Mirrabelli, but im not gonna get into all those now. think ive made my point

 

Mirabelli was a bad move. I'll agree.

 

epstein is trying to hard to go after the big names, unstead of doing what he did when he first came in, getting guys like millar, mueller, ortiz, etc. then going out and getting a proving vet like schilling. the big name guys havn't really worked out for the sox the last couple of years.

 

So let me get this straight. You're criticizing Epstein for players perceived to be the best available.

 

And we want him fired why?

 

only good thing about Francona is most of the players love him, so i guess he'd make a great bench coach

 

He handles the pressure of Boston very well.

He is a player's manager.

He uses all statistical information that the brass gives him to make informed decisions.

 

He's a top 5 AL Manager. And we want him fired because....

[mosox]

Tito on WEEI says in Game 5 Kielty will play for Drew in RF, Coco in CF and Pedroia still hitting leadoff.

[TedWilliams101]

Um, WHERE IS ELLSBURY. Jesus f***ing Christ. Play the god damned kid who will spark this lifeless team. Has Tito just forgot about this kid?

[TheKilo]

Um' date=' WHERE IS ELLSBURY. Jesus f***ing Christ. Play the god damned kid who will spark this lifeless team. Has Tito just forgot about this kid?[/quote']

 

I'd look no further than Dustin Pedroia and Troy Tulowitzki in Colorado for rookies struggling when involved in the playoffs for the first time.

 

Would he be better than Crisp? It's debatable. No way in hell is it guaranteed.

[mosox]

I've been back and forth on this, but now with Sabathia and Carmona next I think the time to use Ellsbury has passed. If Tito wanted to use the kid he should have done it last night with the soft-tossing Byrd. Jacoby could have made some swings and may have been able to steal a base or two. But now, he'll just be overmatched against CC.

[redsoxrules]

to all of you who is bashing crisp, lugo , drew .... how about MDC ? he's the one who allowed cleveland to tie game 2 at 6-6 and if he had got peralta out lastnight who knows...

[TedWilliams101]

I don't think its just crisp, drew, and lugo. MDC hasn't been good; Gagne, well, him sucking was expected. SP hasn't been all that good besides Beckett. Ortiz/Manny/Lowell are the only guys doing damage in the lineup. The big problem besides luck/pitching is not getting key hits. We can't get a hit when it matters.

[See Red]

I'd look no further than Dustin Pedroia and Troy Tulowitzki in Colorado for rookies struggling when involved in the playoffs for the first time.

 

Would he be better than Crisp? It's debatable. No way in hell is it guaranteed.

 

That's a good point, Kilo. Both of the probable Rookies of the Year have struggled in the postseason (offensively, anyway), why would it be any different with Jacoby Ellsbury?

[das11209]

That's a good point' date=' Kilo. Both of the probable Rookies of the Year have struggled in the postseason (offensively, anyway), why would it be any different with Jacoby Ellsbury?[/quote']

 

 

Could be no worse than Crisp as far as offence is concerned. At least the kid would have got play-off experience. It's not as if Crisp is in our long term plan that we care for his playoff experience.

[TheKilo]

Could be no worse than Crisp as far as offence is concerned. At least the kid would have got play-off experience. It's not as if Crisp is in our long term plan that we care for his playoff experience.

 

Right, but he could be worse defensively.

 

Look I wouldn't object to Ellsbury playing, I just don't think it's as slam-dunk as people think.

[Paradisecity]

He could be worse defensively?

 

You mean he could dive head first for a ball and watch it bounce behind him eliminating all hope of throwing out kenny lofton at home?

 

 

Or would we be talking about Coco's cannon that hasn't even brought a throw to home yet on sac flies.....

[redsoxrules]

He could be worse defensively?

 

You mean he could dive head first for a ball and watch it bounce behind him eliminating all hope of throwing out kenny lofton at home?

 

 

Or would we be talking about Coco's cannon that hasn't even brought a throw to home yet on sac flies.....

 

WTF? theres no way in hell ANYONE gets lofton out at home if the ball drops , lofton was running on contact with 2 outs on a blooper , lofton was probly halfway to home when the ball droped , crisp HAD to dive to try and catch it , that was the only play there

 

and BTW coco' had quite a bit of assist during the season

[Paradisecity]

We're talking about the playoffs here right? And why Ellsbury isn't playing?

 

and the new argument is because of defense?

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has seen a single play where they could honestly say "Ellsbury wouldnt have made that play"

 

I can only think of one, and that would be the double play that Coco hit into in game 3.

[TheKilo]

We're talking about the playoffs here right? And why Ellsbury isn't playing?

 

and the new argument is because of defense?

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has seen a single play where they could honestly say "Ellsbury wouldnt have made that play"

 

I can only think of one, and that would be the double play that Coco hit into in game 3.

 

lol

 

Still, towards the end of the season Ellsbury got some BAD reads off balls hit to CF.

 

Again, I won't complain if Coco's replaced, I just don't think it's as "slam dunk" as everyone else does.

[Paradisecity]

I agree if you mean Ellsbury isn't going to come in and be 1993 Ken Griffey Jr. He isn't Moses. He wouldn't havewon any of these 3 games on his own. But he probably would have helped-

 

Yeah- he could struggle- I just don't see how he could possibly be worse than what we've seen, and Ellsbury's track record only helps this case

[TheKilo]

For those who say "we need a spark", the starting 2B disagrees...

 

He recognizes the team hasn't been hitting, but bristles when it's suggested that his club needs a spark to jump-start its chances.

 

"If you need that, then go drink a Red Bull," he said. "We don't have time for that crap."

 

With that, the kid turned to finish dressing for batting practice.

 

"Got to get some swings in," he said. "The next game could be the one where the hits start dropping."

[See Red]

For those who say "we need a spark"' date=' the starting 2B disagrees...[/quote']

 

I absolutely love that kid.

[mosox]

Enough is enough. Coco has a look on his face of a beaten man. Not even being able to lay down a bunt when he can do nothing else would seem to be the last straw. It's not a question of getting a spark, it's a matter of removing a player who is contributing nothing at the plate and is hurting the lineup.

[VA Sox Fan]

From the Globe:

 

"Guardians World Series" T-shirts are available for sale in several Cleveland area stores, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

 

The story asks, "Is it just the same marketing practice that brings us Halloween decorations in August, or is it hubris, irrational exuberance and plain bad luck?"

 

We'll find out.

 

I would say irrational exuberance AND plain BAD LUCK!

[YAZMAN]

For those who say "we need a spark"' date=' the starting 2B disagrees...[/quote']

 

Pedroia rocks, he really needs to start calling people "cruds".

[VA Sox Fan]

Pedroia rocks' date=' he really needs to start calling people "cruds".[/quote']

 

And don't forget booger eating morons