Wang/Joba/Hughes/Kennedy vs. Papelbon/Buchholz/Lester/Masterson

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I don't know if it was you but I remember someone making the argument that Joba will be better than Clay because he can throw HARDER...while that is true, it is utter ********.

And I'm sure that if other relievers had 2 days rest after 2 innings...they could throw pretty good heat too.

 

Clay's fastball is sometimes his 4th best pitch which means he chooses to get people out other than throwing it by them, he can throw a change on a 3-1 count, when the hitter is expecting fastball. When a batter gets up against Joba they are sitting on a fastball and they KNOW its gunna be fast, but these guys are professionals and its their job to hit the ball so even though its gunna be hard its not like its impossible to hit. I would find it much harder to hit a pitcher who throws 92, can place his change up wherever and whenever he wants, has a 12-6 curve and can also throw a decent slider-cutter thingy. His pitches are untouchable when used correctly. He can throw any of those pitches with any count too, which is more valuable than a pitcher who throws hard fastballs and hard sliders. Just ask Brian Roberts who was blown away by a Buchholz fastball after 105 pitches.

 

As long as he is being caught by Jason Varitek for a couple more years, one of the best gamecallers in the history of the MLB, clay will have an incredible future. 'Tek was calling 2-0 changes and Clay didn't shake him off once during the no-hitter.... Jason Varitek has caught 3 no-hitters, the second most of any catcher ever.

 

Excellent post.

[TheKilo]

Bump.

 

What says Talksox as of now?

[Jayhawk Bill]

Bump.

 

What says Talksox as of now?

 

Personally' date=' i view the Yankee's crop as better from top to bottom. [b']Kennedy and Hughes are better than Lester and Masterson[/b]. However, I think the best pitchers out of the two teams would be Papelbon and Buchholz, so Boston may have the cream of the crop. Add in Beckett and DiceK, and things get even more level.

 

One thing is for sure, the next ten years or so watching these guys develop is going to be a treat.

 

As of now, I'd say that you were remarkably wrong when you posted this months ago. Hughes is starting to look like Superman post-kryptonite, and Kennedy has struggled mightily most of 2008.

 

That said, you know your stuff as well as anybody here. Projecting pitchers is a crap shoot. Dredge up my 2007 posts--they might not look too prescient right now.

 

But that last comment--that ten-year one--I really disagree with. You've cited eight pitchers: Wang, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Papelbon, Buchholz, Lester, and Masterson. Here's my projection:

 

1) In 2008, one or more will have VORP of zero or less.

2) In 2009, two or more will have VORP of zero or less.

3) In 2011, three or more will have VORP of zero or less.

4) In 2014, four or more will have VORP of zero or less.

5) In 2018, five or more will have VORP of zero or less.

 

In ten years, I'll bet that five out of those eight pitchers will be either retired or worthless, with only three still contributing more to their teams than AAA pitchers would.

[Mr Crunchy]

as of today theres no debate

the yankee 3 havent won a game yet have they?

they got joba going 6.1 ip over 2 starts and maybe they'll let him throw 80 pitches next time out.

to me he looks like reggie cleveland.

our guys?

the last 2 no hitters,a game 4 world series clincher,and this guy masterson has been a tremendous asset this year

4 starts,3-0 record with 24ip and a 2.59 era??

we can afford to go easy with these guys

christ

we can go to a 6 man rotation when bucholz comes back and nobody would mind.

ny on the other hand is battling for the cellar

they have the dim witted mongoloid running the show and calling the shots while the baseball people are told to shut up and do what theyre told.

2 different environments at this hour and i like my guys development much better than whats happening 200 miles southwest of here.

[Jim_Chandley]

Deisel.