July 21st vs. Chicago

[a700hitter]

That clinches it.

 

This guy is Joe Morgan, Dusty Baker, or Steve Phillips.

 

Hey Dusty, why the f*** did you bat Neifi Perez and Corey Patterson at the top of the lineup?

Huh? Youkilis is fast?

[CrespoBlows]

Mr. Blows' date=' I guess Damon just doesn't have much respect for Park Factors since a healthy Damon hit 3 in Fenway last year in a visitors uniform. Maybe the prevailing winds were much different? Perhaps there was some sort of strange wind current blowing out to RF in Fenway when he was at bat last season. Maybe it was El Nino?[/quote']

 

Yeah, because we can accurately gauge what Johnny Damon would have done in 2006, based on a 35 AB sample size.

[CrespoBlows]

Huh? Youkilis is fast?

 

Right over your head. Not surprised.

 

'dat dem youkilis be cloggin dem bases up dat he scored 100 runs for dem red sox in '06.

 

What's with the war against slow guys who walk? It's stupid.

[CrespoBlows]

"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said.

 

"Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

 

We should be like the Cubs. Get rid of David Ortiz, he doesn't hit HR's anymore. He clogs the bases up. So does Manny, he's a base clogger. We should trade for Juan Pierre, he's not a base clogger. Them guys is good.

[a700hitter]

It's not Damon? Then who have you been clamoring for? You can't fantacize about some ideal player that doesn't exist. Give me a name' date=' or this is just a ruse because Damon is not the answer given his performance this year. What a sad attempt at backpeddaling out of this argument.[/quote']There are a few guys that I would like to have in the leadoff spot. Brian Roberts and Carl Crawford are a couple in our own division. I guess this is where you ask me how I would get them, which specific players I would give up to get them, and a payroll analysis to see if we would have enough money left to sign our #1 DRAFT PICK.

 

And' date=' for someone who gets so touchy about smugness, you certainly have no problem throwing it around. But, that's ok, I expect it. I mean, it's not like you'll take the time to read what modern statistics are all about, so since you can't use them, you ridicule them. Whatever, it's your loss.[/quote']Do I need to use them? Are they necessary for my job or finances. If I make a mistake about a player's abilities because I ignored the advanced statistical analysis, I guess I'll be banned from Fenway or something. What the hell are you talking about? If it was as easy as statisical analysis, I guess the better teams must have the better mathematicians. Joe Torre has so many career mangerial wins. He must be a math whiz.

[a700hitter]

"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said.

 

"Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

 

We should be like the Cubs. Get rid of David Ortiz, he doesn't hit HR's anymore. He clogs the bases up. So does Manny, he's a base clogger. We should trade for Juan Pierre, he's not a base clogger. Them guys is good.

I guess it went right over your tiny head that I was using that as an example of evaluations that don't take a lot of time to make. Some of my favorite players have been slow, so I can assure you that i have no vendetta against slow players.

[a700hitter]

"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage' date='" Baker said.[/quote']I must apologize that I have not stayed current regarding Mr. Baker's managerial philosophies. How stupid of me!

[CrespoBlows]

I guess it went right over your tiny head that I was using that as an example of evaluations that don't take a lot of time to make. Some of my favorite players have been slow' date=' so I can assure you that i have no vendetta against slow players.[/quote']

 

but youkilis is mad slow. he never scored 100 runs in a season. basecloggers dont do that.

[a700hitter]

but youkilis is mad slow. he never scored 100 runs in a season. basecloggers dont do that.

You don't have to be fast to score on a Home Run.

[a700hitter]

Do some research. I can imagine if you were around in the 1600's, you'd refuse to believe that gravity existed.

 

"I don't see gravity, my eyes don't lie to me. Gravity was invented to make _____ (fill in the name of gutty, gritty lancer) look bad."

 

Look at the park factors for left handed hitters at Fenway. Then look at them at Yankee Stadium. Fenway hasn't been above 100, since 1996, Yankee Stadium is usually in the range of 135-150.

 

When Damon takes a shot at a HR, he is a dead pull hitter. Do you have any idea how short Yankee Stadium is to RF? 314 feet. The upper deck hangs almost right above the lower deck. I'm watched a few of those "monsterous" shots you are touting. I'm guessing that none of them traveled further than 360 feet. The majority of them, landed right into the first row of the upper deck. Hardly a moon shot.

 

Have you seen any ball at Fenway carry at all? There are no prevailing winds to push any ball out to RCF.

 

You want to take a shot to how many HR's have been hit out by Red Sox LHB this year? Eight. Forgive me, if I'm not in awe of Johnny Damon's Yankee Stadium produced power.

Just for you the smug Mr. Blows, I have included a link that will help you to research Damon's 2006 HRs. You can see the distances, diagrams and video of each HR. Knock yourself out and see if you can find more than 3 or 4 Yankee Stadium HRs that would not have gone out of Fenway. Have a pleasant evening.

 

http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2006_805&type=hitter

[CrespoBlows]

Just for you the smug Mr. Blows, I have included a link that will help you to research Damon's 2006 HRs. You can see the distances, diagrams and video of each HR. Knock yourself out and see if you can find more than 3 or 4 Yankee Stadium HRs that would not have gone out of Fenway. Have a pleasant evening.

 

http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2006_805&type=hitter

 

4/13/06

4/29/06

4/29/06

 

9/27/06

8/15/06

8/12/06

 

I count six. That number would swell even greater in 2007.

[CrespoBlows]

You don't have to be fast to score on a Home Run.

 

You have to be "clogging the bases" in order to score on another player's HR.

[CrespoBlows]

Do I need to use them? Are they necessary for my job or finances. If I make a mistake about a player's abilities because I ignored the advanced statistical analysis, I guess I'll be banned from Fenway or something. What the hell are you talking about?

 

No, but what I think what's funny is when you're shown these stats, you completely ignore them, or dismiss them. The people who created these stats, know more about baseball than you, or I could ever dream of knowing. When the come out with these, they know what they're talking about. Every single one of the data pumped out by these "stat geeks," are subjected to comprehensive anaylsis.

 

If it was as easy as statisical analysis, I guess the better teams must have the better mathematicians.

 

Yeah, it's always this black and white.

 

Joe Torre has so many career mangerial wins. He must be a math whiz.

 

Why did Torre suck so badly for the other teams he managed?

[riverside sluggers]

Damon hasn't played the field' date=' because the Yankees have the luxury of having Cabrera who is a much better fielder than Crisp.[/quote']

 

Even more propaganda because your despise of one player. My money is on Crisp being the front runner for the gold glove honor this season. Will you be arguing along with the Yankee fans that Melky got sideswiped for the gold glove as well?

 

He's gotten into a hell of a groove as just about every game that passes he'll have at least one amazing catch. Huh, he had a bad read on Konerko's flyball out you say? Out... that mustve meant he still caught it, right? BTW Coco Crisp has also gone 139 consecutive games without an error.

[jacksonianmarch]

Damon hasn't played the field' date=' because the Yankees have the luxury of having Cabrera who is a much better fielder than Crisp.[/quote']

 

Damon looked pretty good last night with 2 diving catches. And he got a hit. Not bad, I say.

[a700hitter]

4/13/06

4/29/06

4/29/06

 

9/27/06

8/15/06

8/12/06

 

I count six. That number would swell even greater in 2007.

 

4/13 --356 feet right down the line around the pole is not out of Fenway?

4/29--379 right down the line in the upper deck around the pole is not out of Fenway?

4/29 --382 to RF is not out of Fenway?

 

I think that leaves three. I gave you the stats and the video, but you refuse to acknowledge the truth from either, so your credibility just went down a notch in my book. I've always enjoyed our disagreements, but be man enough to acknowledge when you are wrong. I am giving myself a pat on the back, because my estimate of 3 or 4 was dead on and it was based solely on my observation and my memory (which is spotty at times). I didn't find the site with the stats or the diagrams until last night.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' but what I think what's funny is when you're shown these stats, you completely ignore them, or dismiss them. The people who created these stats, know more about baseball than you, or I could ever dream of knowing. When the come out with these, they know what they're talking about. Every single one of the data pumped out by these "stat geeks," are subjected to comprehensive anaylsis.[/quote']After your conclusion about Damon's Yankee stadium Homers in the face of the stats, diagrams and the video, don't even go there. As for you complete reliance on stats, they don't differentiate between line drive and bloops, so they are not the entire story. If they were, they would not need former players and coaches as scouts.

[a700hitter]

Even more propaganda because your despise of one player. My money is on Crisp being the front runner for the gold glove honor this season. Will you be arguing along with the Yankee fans that Melky got sideswiped for the gold glove as well?

 

He's gotten into a hell of a groove as just about every game that passes he'll have at least one amazing catch. Huh, he had a bad read on Konerko's flyball out you say? Out... that mustve meant he still caught it, right? BTW Coco Crisp has also gone 139 consecutive games without an error.

Based on the time of your post, I'll cut you some slack and assume you were hammered. My "despise of a player"... a Red Sox player... in favor of two Yankee players? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

[a700hitter]

Damon looked pretty good last night with 2 diving catches. And he got a hit. Not bad' date=' I say.[/quote']

I caught those highlights. Despite what a couple of fools here might believe, I'd rather that Damon continue DH'ing and hitting .230. Jackson, it's only a matter of time before I hear idiotic remarks telling me to root for the Yankees since I seem to like them so much. This is what I was told when I would post that the FO had to spend what it takes to bring in established talent, but they are enjoying having Dice K aren't they. In the mean time, I have been rooting for the Red Sox since before some of their parents were in diaper or before they were born, but the conclusion is that I am really a Yankee fan. It couldn't be that maybe I am right.

[ORS]

There are a few guys that I would like to have in the leadoff spot. Brian Roberts and Carl Crawford are a couple in our own division. I guess this is where you ask me how I would get them' date=' which specific players I would give up to get them, and a payroll analysis to see if we would have enough money left to sign our #1 DRAFT PICK.[/quote']

Masturbation. Those guys are not available, at least not yet.

 

Do I need to use them? Are they necessary for my job or finances. If I make a mistake about a player's abilities because I ignored the advanced statistical analysis, I guess I'll be banned from Fenway or something. What the hell are you talking about? If it was as easy as statisical analysis, I guess the better teams must have the better mathematicians. Joe Torre has so many career mangerial wins. He must be a math whiz.

It's not about whether or not you need to use them. You can't. And it's kind of funny. One hundred years ago, a guy introduced the concept where instead of trying to remember how often a guy got a hit he actually calculated the rate at which it happens. Then some older guy said, "Who needs that, I can tell who can hit and who can't with my own two eyes", just like you are doing now.

 

It's even funnier than that. You piss and moan about the decisions they make and want answers. Well, go get them. James started it all, and he works for the Sox. So, while you mockingly question its utility, the answers are within. I suggest you start with Bill James' Historical Baseball Abstract. It's not heavy on stats but you get a feel for what he started and why, and you'll see he's not just some number cruncher. He's passionate about one thing. Baseball. And his books have a breadth of knowledge about the game from its inception to the present.

 

And, can you quit with the non-sequitor about me thinking its only about the stats. I've never dismissed the importance of scouting. I just choose not to ignore something because it is new and unfamiliar.

[a700hitter]

Masturbation. Those guys are not available' date=' at least not yet.[/quote']How did I know that you would answer something like that? You ask me who I would like to be our leadoff hitter so I gave you two names. There are more. Of course, you respond that we can't get them. I saw you setting up this straw man at the beginning. Let me clue you in on something. Everyone is available at all times unless they have a no-trade clause, and even then you can get them by sweetening their pot. You may know stats, but you can't think.

 

It's not about whether or not you need to use them. You can't.

I can. It's a funny thing about statistical analysis though. You can get them to show just about anything. I don't agree with certain types of stats as indicators. I don't think OPS is the be all and end all as a measure of performance' date=' especially for #2 hitter who I want hitting the other way and sacrificing to move runners over. For them, I prefer OBP. Sorry, but that's just me.

And it's kind of funny. One hundred years ago, a guy introduced the concept where instead of trying to remember how often a guy got a hit he actually calculated the rate at which it happens. Then some older guy said, "Who needs that, I can tell who can hit and who can't with my own two eyes", just like you are doing now.

Cute. I can't believe you took the time to type this.

And' date=' can you quit with the non-sequitor about me thinking its only about the stats. I've never dismissed the importance of scouting. I just choose not to ignore something because it is new and unfamiliar.[/quote']But you choose to ignore my observations. I am not a casual fan. I am not a newbie. I am someone that takes a laptop on the family trip to Italy so I can stay up with the developments of the season and watch a few games at 3 am. You are making it all about stats when you disregard observation. You don't say just post the stats to be informative. You post them to invalidate peoples observations. So, why don't you stop being a dick.

[a700hitter]

BTW ORS

 

Edit: ORS, did you check out Damon's Yankee Stadium HRS? I know you couldn't resist. How many would not have gone out of Fenway? I think my observation was pretty good, and the stats back me up. I prefer it that way where the stats are used to confirm my observations. I trust my eyes more than the stats. I use stats for the NL which I don't watch very much.

[ORS]

How did I know that you would answer something like that? You ask me who I would like to be our leadoff hitter so I gave you two names. There are more. Of course' date=' you respond that we can't get them. I saw you setting up this straw man at the beginning. Let me clue you in on something. Everyone is available at all times unless they have a no-trade clause, and even then you can get them by sweetening their pot. You may know stats, but you can't think. [/quote']

It's no straw man. It's a legit question, and the answer was as I suspected, a fantasy. So provide a plausible alternative and quit spanking your monkey.

 

I can. It's a funny thing about statistical analysis though. You can get them to show just about anything. I don't agree with certain types of stats as indicators. I don't think OPS is the be all and end all as a measure of performance, especially for #2 hitter who I want hitting the other way and sacrificing to move runners over. For them, I prefer OBP. Sorry, but that's just me.

But not Youkilis, right, because he's too slow.

 

Cute. I can't believe you took the time to type this.

Cute, yet perfectly analogous. You are this generation's dinosaur who thinks a new way of looking at the game holds no value.

 

But you choose to ignore my observations. I am not a casual fan. I am not a newbie. I am someone that takes a laptop on the family trip to Italy so I can stay up with the developments of the season and watch a few games at 3 am. You are making it all about stats when you disregard observation.

Well, when those observations yield that Pedroia will fall on his face and attempt to invalidate Crisp's improvement in the field because of one observed poor reaction despite stats that show him to be a league leader at his position, then yeah, I tend to disregard them. They'll start to carry more weight with me when they start hitting the nail on the head.

 

You don't say just post the stats to be informative. You post them to invalidate peoples observations. So, why don't you stop being a dick.

The stats are out there and freely available. I don't feel it's my responsibility to inform. Inform yourself. I'll join the discussion when its apparent you haven't done so. If you take umbrage with that, then sorry. And I'll stop being a dick when you do.

[ORS]

BTW ORS

Since most games are played at night, I would imagine that is true of most OFs.

 

Edit: ORS, did you check out Damon's Yankee Stadium HRS? I know you couldn't resist. How many would not have gone out of Fenway? I think my observation was pretty good, and the stats back me up. I prefer it that way where the stats are used to confirm my observations. I trust my eyes more than the stats. I use stats for the NL which I don't watch very much.

Hittracker is a useful site. You should note, the guy who created and runs that site posted over at SoSH last year. Oritz' upperdeck shot in May last year, which went farther than any of Damon's upperdeck jobs, wouldn't have made the track at Fenway with prevailing winds by his calcs.

 

I agree, stats should be used to confirm what you observe. However, I think you should look before you jump. I think you do it the other way around, and only look at those that provide confirmation.

[a700hitter]

It's no straw man. It's a legit question' date=' and the answer was as I suspected, a fantasy. So provide a plausible alternative and quit spanking your monkey.[/quote']You asked me who I wanted to bat leadoff? Did you expect that I knew about a good leadoff hitter that wasn't playing for some team? Get real. I am not masturbating, but you should stop jerking me off.

But not Youkilis' date=' right, because he's too slow.[/quote']Where did I say that speed is a necessity in the #2 hole? You are just so angry with me that you are making things up. Did Loretta have speed? BTW he also clogged the bases. He wasn't fast but a good # 2 hitter, as is Pedroia this year. Youkilis is okay in the # 2 hole, but he k's a bit too much for that spot.

 

Well' date=' when those observations yield that Pedroia will fall on his face and attempt to invalidate Crisp's improvement in the field because of one observed poor reaction despite stats that show him to be a league leader at his position, then yeah, I tend to disregard them. They'll start to carry more weight with me when they start hitting the nail on the head.[/quote']More mischaracterization. I never predicted that he would fall on his face. I would have made him win the job, and I would have had a back up plan. No knock on Pedroia, but a knock on the FO. I am risk averse. A $2-3 million backup veteran I thought would be prudent. BTW Loretta would have been a nice trading chip right now. The Mets among other teams need him.

 

With regard to Crisp, I am not making observations based on one play at a game that I happened to be at. I've seen him a lot. I admitted not seeing him for a couple of months and had been told that he had improved his jumps. The very first game that I see him he gets a terrible jump. I'll attribute it to the fact that it was a day game. He has trouble in day games. Sorry, no stat to back that up. If you went to some games you might question some of the stats you read.

 

You are so big on stats. Do you realize that this site has a verion stats? It's called the archives. I'd appreciate you researching my posts before you post mischaracterizations about my views.

[a700hitter]

Since most games are played at night' date=' I would imagine that is true of most OFs.[/quote']He has more trouble than most. I can tell that by observing the opposing CF's. Duh! I guess they are having trouble, but they are just getting better jumps.

 

Hittracker is a useful site. You should note' date=' the guy who created and runs that site posted over at SoSH last year. Oritz' upperdeck shot in May last year, which went farther than any of Damon's upperdeck jobs, wouldn't have made the track at Fenway with prevailing winds by his calcs.[/quote']Please I am laughing so hard that my side is starting to hurt. Tell me which way the wind was blowing in Yankee Stadium for those ABs and what day's weather are we supposed to compare that to in Fenway...the same day? Admit you are wrong once in a while and you'll have more credibility.

 

I am leaving for the Friendly confines now to watch the game. I'll be sure to have some incorrect observations for you later on.

[ORS]

He has more trouble than most. I can tell that by observing the opposing CF's. Duh! I guess they are having trouble' date=' but they are just getting better jumps.[/quote']

But they aren't making more outs. Crisp has been fantastic in CF this year, but we are supposed to throw it away because of one jump observed by the Superterrific 700 Observation Factor. If you say so.

 

Please I am laughing so hard that my side is starting to hurt. Tell me which way the wind was blowing in Yankee Stadium for those ABs and what day's weather are we supposed to compare that to in Fenway...the same day? Admit you are wrong once in a while and you'll have more credibility.

I guess you really didn't get the utility of that site. That information is available on each HR, and his calcs were based on, wait for it, and I did state it, prevailing winds.

 

I do admit when I'm wrong. I said the Damon decision looked like a poor one last year and that I was wrong if that was how he would play his contract out. Now that the other shoe has dropped, you are the only one trying to shove the square peg into the round hole. So, about that credibiliity issue, following your own advice seems like a good idea.

[VA Sox Fan]

Good try ORS. It's difficult to reason w/ someone who hasn't gotten over Damon choosing the Yankees over the Red Sox. Someone who honestly believes Damon could have made a difference for the 2006 Red Sox. He doesn't like Coco or Youk and he seems unlikely to change his opinion because his astute observations.

[CrespoBlows]

4/13 --356 feet right down the line around the pole is not out of Fenway?

4/29--379 right down the line in the upper deck around the pole is not out of Fenway?

4/29 --382 to RF is not out of Fenway?

I think that leaves three. I gave you the stats and the video, but you refuse to acknowledge the truth from either, so your credibility just went down a notch in my book. I've always enjoyed our disagreements, but be man enough to acknowledge when you are wrong. I am giving myself a pat on the back, because my estimate of 3 or 4 was dead on and it was based solely on my observation and my memory (which is spotty at times). I didn't find the site with the stats or the diagrams until last night.

 

Or, they fall right in this area. You also completely ignore the lack of prevailing winds at Fenway Park. Those balls aren't getting out.

 

You could also try to use the actual unaided distances of the balls. Your credibility just went down a notch in my book. I've always enjoyed our disagreements, but be man enough to acknowledge when you want to fellate the former Red Sox CF. I know he's really cool, but you don't need to say he's worth 8 wins over the average player, or that he would have more than 20 HR's at Fenway Park.

 

Look Fire_Theo, I know you think that 1 good year of a contract makes it a good investment, but no one else shares that opinion.

 

http://www.baseball-statistics.com/Ballparks/Bos/fenway.gif

 

375, 370.

 

Close, but not enough.

 

Oh, don't believe me. You were at the game. How about J.D. Drew's shot in today's game? That ball totally died out in Death Valley.

[CrespoBlows]

After your conclusion about Damon's Yankee stadium Homers in the face of the stats' date=' diagrams and the video, don't even go there. As for you complete reliance on stats, they don't differentiate between line drive and bloops, so they are not the entire story. If they were, they would not need former players and coaches as scouts.[/quote']

 

What a load of s***.

 

Where did I dismiss the importance of the value of scouting?