Are we better off without Schilling?

[NomahsHammSammich]

I know this may be an unpopular viewpoint to take..but after seeing his last 2 outings I am quite sure we are better off without him...the way he pitched against COL and ATL. I seem to remember(and I am sure I am not alone) thinking "Curt. if you just win this game 6 for us....I don't care what you do the rest of your career...you can collect your remaining salary and go to Tahiti for all I care...just get this surgery done and win this thing for us."

 

I think all of us were hoping we could have both...but alas..over the 2nd half of last season and this first half we have seen what Curt Schilling is...a #4 or 5 pitcher. He CAN be effective..but he rarely string together consecutive excellent outings...or even 3 QS's in a row... Aces through#3's can do this...Curt cannot.

 

 

Moving ahead..Tavarez is a more effective pitcher than Schilling is at this point. He throws harder..and has ball has much more movement in and out of the zone....

 

I also think Lester will be as effective..or even morseoe than Schilling... His cutter is nasty and if he throws strikes..he is very difficult to hit. I expect Lester to come and make an immediate positive impact.

 

I am very concerned about Lowell. If this ligament thing is as serious as it is being reported...we need to find an answer. We either need to go out and get a powerful DH...and use Papi at 1st(last resort) or trade for Texeira or Helton and move Youks to 3rd. Lowell was a key component and I don;t think moving Papi to 1st helps this team..especially with potentially erratic throws from Lugo and Youks. Helton and Tex are both Smooth with the leather.

 

 

I also think Timlin is done. Time to start looking for another bullpen arm..

[redsoxrules]

someone should start another thread about schilling , theres only 4 that were just started

[NomahsHammSammich]

someone should start another thread about schilling ' date=' theres only 4 that were just started[/quote']

 

well...those were "Schilling to have MRI"..

 

I think my thread was more concerned with what we do now..and is it really going to hurt us that much with him(possibly) heading to the DL? I think we are still looking pretty good with Tavarez and Lester.

[jacksonianmarch]

you're not very smart.

 

If the outings the last 2 starts are due to injury, then the injured schilling isnt worth having around, but a healthy one may be. But if this schilling is the schilling you should expect, then he is still a better option on a start to start basis than anyone in the minors at this juncture and any shitbum you can find off the waiver wire. He isnt the ace you once had, but he is still a better than average pitcher.

 

You figure, his numbers thus far,

 

6+IP per start, 4.20ERA and about 7K/9IP. That is solid. That isnt Schill circa 01 numbers, but those numbers are better than what Kyle Snyder or even Jon Lester are likely to put up.

[MarkTaylor]

timlin is done.....hope he retires at the end of the season

 

schilling is done in boston after this year, i doubt the Sox pick up the option

 

'08 rotation: Lester, Beckett, Dice-K, Wakefield? Papelbon?

[jacksonianmarch]

there isnt an option on Schilling.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

timlin is done.....hope he retires at the end of the season

 

schilling is done in boston after this year, i doubt the Sox pick up the option

 

'08 rotation: Lester, Beckett, Dice-K, Wakefield? Papelbon?

 

Paps is the closer. He decided to close and will remain closing.

[schillingouttheks]

Beckett

Matsuzaka

Lester

Buchholz

Wakefield

 

^^ Most likely. If they go after Zambrano then Wakefield will probably come out of the bullpen.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Were better off without the Schilling that showed up last night. But if theres actually something wrong maybe he can get some rest and come back later in the season and be a decent #3.

[jacksonianmarch]

Paps is the closer. He decided to close and will remain closing.

 

I agree. Paps is much more dangerous out of the pen and gives your team a new dimension. With he an Okidoke, you can shorten games to 7 innings. Not many teams can say that.

[NomahsHammSammich]

you're not very smart.

 

If the outings the last 2 starts are due to injury, then the injured schilling isnt worth having around, but a healthy one may be. But if this schilling is the schilling you should expect, then he is still a better option on a start to start basis than anyone in the minors at this juncture and any shitbum you can find off the waiver wire. He isnt the ace you once had, but he is still a better than average pitcher.

 

You figure, his numbers thus far,

 

6+IP per start, 4.20ERA and about 7K/9IP. That is solid. That isnt Schill circa 01 numbers, but those numbers are better than what Kyle Snyder or even Jon Lester are likely to put up.

 

You are a cocky punk. First off..Yankee fans are sub-human, vile, filthy creatures who think their shat doesn't stink. Secondly you are acting like Lester is a bum.. Check his minor league stats friend...they are similar to your HERO Phillip Hughes..and he is a lefty. If Lester is throwing strikes..which he has been during his minor league outings..he will be an under 4 ERA pitcher this year and maybe a heckuva lot better . I will GUARANTEE you that. He has #2 stuff right now.

 

Schilling has for the most part SUCKED against the Yankees. Tavarez and Lester can handle that lineup better. Lester because his cutter can get in on Arod and Jeter and he can give a diffcult look to their lefties Damon/Matsui/and Abreu...

 

Tavarez has pitched very well against the Yankees this year..hasn't he beaten them twice?

 

I think you are giving Schilling a backhanded Yankee-Ballwash because you want Schilling to continue to go out and get Crushed by the Yankees lineup who haven't been able to solve Tavarez and who probably won't fare too much better against Lester.

 

Yankee fans are so transparent.

[schillingouttheks]

You lost credibility when you insulted jacko to start your post off. I didn't bother reading it.

 

What did I tell you last time? When you cut the insults people take you more seriously. Besides, it's not like I don't know what your post says anyway. You only come here to bitch about something. Cut the insults and people will read.

[Rdsxmbnt]

You are a cocky punk. First off..Yankee fans are sub-human, vile, filthy creatures who think their shat doesn't stink. Secondly you are acting like Lester is a bum.. Check his minor league stats friend...they are similar to your HERO Phillip Hughes..and he is a lefty. If Lester is throwing strikes..which he has been during his minor league outings..he will be an under 4 ERA pitcher this year and maybe a heckuva lot better . I will GUARANTEE you that. He has #2 stuff right now.

 

Schilling has for the most part SUCKED against the Yankees. Tavarez and Lester can handle that lineup better. Lester because his cutter can get in on Arod and Jeter and he can give a diffcult look to their lefties Damon/Matsui/and Abreu...

 

Tavarez has pitched very well against the Yankees this year..hasn;t he beaten them twice?

 

I think you are giving Schilling a bachanded Yankee-Ballwash because you want Schilling to continue to go out and get Crushed by the Yankees lineup who havenl;t been able to solve Tavarez and who probably won't fare too much better against Lester.

 

Yankee fans are so transparent.

 

I dont see what your getting all upset about, nothing was out of line there...

[NomahsHammSammich]

You lost credibility when you insulted jacko to start your post off. I didn't bother reading it.

 

What did I tell you last time? When you cut the insults people take you more seriously. Besides, it's not like I don't know what your post says anyway. You only come here to bitch about something. Cut the insults and people will read.

 

 

He insults my intelligence..I come back and preface my retort with an insult directed at the Yankee-pig and I get chastised? Is this a Red Sox board? Sheez..

 

I had valid points. Especially against the Yankees..I would much rather see Tavarez or Lester out there than even a healthy 40 year old Schilling. He just isn;t that good anymore...and he sure as hell cannot beat that Yankee lineup... They lay off his splitters in the dirt..and wait for the 92.. He cannot trick this team.

[schillingouttheks]

You come to this board when you have something to complain about. That's it. Jacko has shown time and time again that he knows what he's talking about.

 

This being a Red Sox board has nothing to do with how I value each of its members.

[NomahsHammSammich]

You come to this board when you have something to complain about. That's it. Jacko has shown time and time again that he knows what he's talking about.

 

This being a Red Sox board has nothing to do with how I value each of its members.

 

I am not complaining about anything.,.. I am stating my opinion that the Red Sox rotation may be better off without Schilling. I am not mad at Schill..he helped us win a Series at the risk of great Peril to himself...nobody will ever take that from him. I am saying this.. I think at some point this year..we will have to beat the Yankees, wether it is in the playoffs..or to win the division. I don't think Schilling can beat them. His pitch arsenal has become much too predictable for a team like that..they are too talented and disciplined to swing at his splitters in the dirt and he just doesn't have the necessary velocity on his fastball to get it past them. Also..the Yankees, due to this ridiculous schedule..see him too much.

 

This was not a Schilling bitchfest... it is a "we may be better off without him because he just isn't that good anymore" realization.

 

Anyhow..sorry..you can go back to fellating the Yankee fan.

[Beckett95]

confirmed: schilling to have MRI

 

Curt Schilling will have an MRI on his shoulder after returning to Boston for an examination.

 

"It makes sense to do this," manager Terry Francona said. "The ball didn’t come out of his hand too well … He was having trouble getting loose. With all this humidity, you’d think it would be easy to get loose." Schilling didn't admit to any soreness after his start Monday. The Red Sox aren't ruling him out for his start Sunday against the Padres, though it seems likely that they'll need to call on Jon Lester. Jun. 19 - 5:22 pm et

[schillingouttheks]

I am not complaining about anything.,.. I am stating my opinion that the Red Sox rotation may be better off without Schilling. I am not mad at Schill..he helped us win a Series at the risk of great Peril to himself...nobody will ever take that from him. I am saying this.. I think at some point this year..we will have to beat the Yankees, wether it is in the playoffs..or to win the division. I don't think Schilling can beat them. His pitch arsenal has become much too predictable for a team like that..they are too talented and disciplined to swing at his splitters in the dirt and he just doesn't have the necessary velocity on his fastball to get it past them. Also..the Yankees, due to this ridiculous schedule..see him too much.

 

This was not a Schilling bitchfest... it is a "we may be better off without him because he just isn't that good anymore" realization.

 

Anyhow..sorry..you can go back to fellating the Yankee fan.

 

There are realizations throughout the entire board. I'm going to stab someone if I see another "Schilling" thread made.

 

You came here because you hate what you saw last night. You're here when something goes wrong for the team so you can expose it more as if we haven't already noticed it. Besides, your track record suggests that you only come here when you have something to rant about. Maybe it's not a bitchfest, but it's to point out an obvious weakness for this team. You're never here otherwise.

 

Anyway, call it what you want. Fellating, blowing, hanging off of ... I really don't give a s***. There are just members here that are more important to me. And unlike you, I'm not stupid enough to think that his fandom makes his opinion inferior to mine.

[jacksonianmarch]

I love these quotes. This means I get to take a moron in for a tuneup.

 

You are a cocky punk. First off..Yankee fans are sub-human' date=' vile, filthy creatures who think their shat doesn't stink. [/quote']

 

sub human huh? Wow. Got me. I am so pissed. And yeah, my s*** doesnt stink. You got me.

 

 

Secondly you are acting like Lester is a bum..

find a quote. I have never said that. I think Jon Lester can be a quality major league pitcher, I just dont think he is ready yet.

 

Check his minor league stats friend...they are similar to your HERO Phillip Hughes..and he is a lefty.

 

wrong again Daniel-son. Hughes trumped him in ERA, K/9, BAA, BB/9, HR/9IP and WHIP. In pretty much every category and soundly in all. So no, you are way wrong, but nice try.

 

If Lester is throwing strikes..which he has been during his minor league outings..he will be an under 4 ERA pitcher this year and maybe a heckuva lot better . I will GUARANTEE you that. He has #2 stuff right now.

 

I dont doubt that he has the stuff. But consistent command and durability are questions that will take a long time to answer and I like to err on the side of caution.

 

Schilling has for the most part SUCKED against the Yankees.

 

you mean that team you dont play for another month +. Yep, lets set the entire team to beat the yankees, who as of now arent even a playoff team.

 

Tavarez and Lester can handle that lineup better. Lester because his cutter can get in on Arod and Jeter and he can give a diffcult look to their lefties Damon/Matsui/and Abreu...

 

The wilder Lester would get absolutely eaten up by NY. If Lester was not wild, then maybe, but there is no way to tell. As much as you may try, minor league numbers do not indicate immediate success. There will be a learning curve and having one in a pennant chase in Boston may not be the best of avenues for a kid whose overall recovery is unknown.

 

 

Tavarez has pitched very well against the Yankees this year..hasn't he beaten them twice?

 

Victor Zambrano beat us 3 times in one season when he was a DRay. Want him in your rotation? Dont think so. Again, you play us 18 times and the rest of the league 144 times. Prepare for the field and see what you do with us.

 

I think you are giving Schilling a backhanded Yankee-Ballwash because you want Schilling to continue to go out and get Crushed by the Yankees lineup who haven't been able to solve Tavarez and who probably won't fare too much better against Lester.

 

Yankee fans are so transparent.

 

Not in the least. Schilling has proven that when you count him out, he is at his most dangerous. I hate the guy, but I can respect his abilities and can see that he is trying to reinvent himself as a finesse guy. That takes time. But his last start was alarming and we'll see how he goes. That is all. BTW, you are still a moron.

[NomahsHammSammich]

I love these quotes. This means I get to take a moron in for a tuneup.

 

 

 

sub human huh? Wow. Got me. I am so pissed. And yeah, my s*** doesnt stink. You got me.

 

 

find a quote. I have never said that. I think Jon Lester can be a quality major league pitcher, I just dont think he is ready yet.

 

 

 

wrong again Daniel-son. Hughes trumped him in ERA, K/9, BAA, BB/9, HR/9IP and WHIP. In pretty much every category and soundly in all. So no, you are way wrong, but nice try.

 

 

 

I dont doubt that he has the stuff. But consistent command and durability are questions that will take a long time to answer and I like to err on the side of caution.

 

 

 

you mean that team you dont play for another month +. Yep, lets set the entire team to beat the yankees, who as of now arent even a playoff team.

 

 

 

The wilder Lester would get absolutely eaten up by NY. If Lester was not wild, then maybe, but there is no way to tell. As much as you may try, minor league numbers do not indicate immediate success. There will be a learning curve and having one in a pennant chase in Boston may not be the best of avenues for a kid whose overall recovery is unknown.

 

 

 

Victor Zambrano beat us 3 times in one season when he was a DRay. Want him in your rotation? Dont think so. Again, you play us 18 times and the rest of the league 144 times. Prepare for the field and see what you do with us.

 

 

 

Not in the least. Schilling has proven that when you count him out, he is at his most dangerous. I hate the guy, but I can respect his abilities and can see that he is trying to reinvent himself as a finesse guy. That takes time. But his last start was alarming and we'll see how he goes. That is all. BTW, you are still a moron.

 

 

Well I have class at 6:30...don;t have time to match your slick cut and paste quotes display..breathtaking I say...breathtaking indeed...

 

Anyhow.. Lester's AA numbers were very similar to Hughes's at the same level.. I didn't say he was better...Hughes is special..I am not denying that..I am just saying that being a lefty he is naturally bumped up a bit on the valuability scale...and if Hughes projects as a #1 I see Lester as a 1-A-#2 at the worst.

 

Lester when throwing strikes reminds me of Pettite. I know this is after a small sample size..but he has a similar pitch arsenal and tough mental makeup which I liken to AP..and he throws a devastating cutter which has always been the pitch that killed us. I think his arsenal is will be pretty effective against the Yankees..assuming he throws strikes. Lester has already proven that even when he is wild..he is very capable of getting tough and working his way out of jams against some very god lineups..ATL and NYM last year to name a couple.

 

Look at Schilling's last 5 outings vs. the Yankees..c'mon...I think we all know he cannot beat them. I think if he faced that lineup 10 times he would win twice(3-max). Those are not odds I would want, especially in the playoffs.

 

And BTW....as for the moron..lol..funny.. I am off to my differential equations class.. 12 more credits until my Electrical Engineer BS is complete....what a moron I am...

[Gom]

You are a cocky punk. First off..Yankee fans are sub-human, vile, filthy creatures who think their shat doesn't stink....

 

Yankee fans are so transparent.

 

You are an idiot. There are some very sharp and knowledgeable fans on this site from both sides. Even though I secretly think ORS is the Antichrist, he is quite knowledgeable about the sport. I actually think that majority of Red Sox fans here, Schillingouttheks, Yeszir, the aforementioned ORS, example1, and many others are decent people and in the online community, I would actually consider friends.

 

You, on the other hand, with that post, make me enjoy ripping the Red Sox. To make such an attack on people that isn't even warranted considering the post you quoted simply shows how stupid and ignorant you are.

[adam123]

You are an idiot. There are some very sharp and knowledgeable fans on this site from both sides. Even though I secretly think ORS is the Antichrist, he is quite knowledgeable about the sport. I actually think that majority of Red Sox fans here, Schillingouttheks, Yeszir, the aforementioned ORS, example1, and many others are decent people and in the online community, I would actually consider friends.

 

You, on the other hand, with that post, make me enjoy ripping the Red Sox. To make such an attack on people that isn't even warranted considering the post you quoted simply shows how stupid and ignorant you are.

 

Gomo.. good to see ya back man ... on other note Schill is Hurt let's just hope it's not serious .

[Thumper]

I gotta go with Gom on this one. Just because of Schilling's pitching against the Yankees are bad, all of a sudden you've gotta rip him a new one? The Yankees aren't the only team in the AL...

 

It would be different to say this stuff against Schilling if we were in the playoffs against New York, but at this point in the season it's just criminal.

[Cocos Disciples]

Gomo.. good to see ya back man ... on other note Schill is Hurt let's just hope it's not serious .

 

Gom has been here...