Clemens to return in 1 week

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05212007/sports/yankees/rocket_close_to_making_his_major_reentry_yankees_george_king_______and_mark_hale.htm

 

He will start next monday vs the Blue Jays.

[adam123]

Not gonna help you he only pitches once a week . Have fun roger not making the playoffs . You could have gone out a champ with us buut now your gonna be a chump with the yankers .

[Cocos Disciples]

Adam, you're so larious!

[adam123]

Adam' date=' you're so larious![/quote']

 

thanks man .... loving this season . We could not ask for more :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[mtbykr]

Wow, rushing him back a month early and now up in the bigs earlier than expected...things are not good at the toilet. Even if he pitches well i wonder how he will bein doing late september...mabey more worn out than normal

[jacksonianmarch]

thanks man .... loving this season . We could not ask for more :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

I said before that you guys will have the east if you finish May with a 10+ game lead in the loss column. Let me amend that and say that if after June 3rd, you have a 10+ game lead in the loss column, then the east is yours (we finish a 3 game set in Boston on the 3rd). You are at 10 right now after playing the best baseball the sox have seen to start a season in a long while, if ever. And after the yankees have been beset by serious injuries and some very uncharacteristic offensive slumping. On June 4th, I will either concede the division or watch as we claw our way back in this thing. Until then, with 6 games against each other in front of us and a brutal stretch for the sox coming up from mid July to the beginning of Sept, I wont start giving you guys the crown yet. If you take 5 of the next 6 and widen that lead to 12 or 13 games by June 4th, then I will

[castigs850]

i think its safe to predict that coming back too quick will cause him to pull a hammy within his first three starts

[TedWilliams101]

Clemens is going to turn out to be the biggest waste of $28 million. He will be nothing more than an average pitcher in the AL, but at 44, he probably wont be able to go past the 5th or 6th very often. Last year, Clemens averaged just under 6 innings a game. Add a year to his age and put him in the AL, with a DH in the place of a pitcher, and stronger lineups who will work the count better, and I can't image Clemens averaging more than 5 innings a game. Lets face it Clemens isn't the same pitcher he was 10 years ago and his numbers in the NL the last 2 years has been a bit misleading. From 1999 - 2003 (5 years) Clemens averaged a 4.0 ERA. He then went to the NL for 3 years and averaged a 2.4ERA. There is no way he pitched that much better than he did when he was with the Yankees and was 5 years younger. Expecting him to post an ERA under 4.0 is wishful thinking, not realistic. He isn't goint to put up great numbers this season. So how will that help the Yankees?

[jacksonianmarch]

Wow' date=' rushing him back a month early and now up in the bigs earlier than expected...things are not good at the toilet. Even if he pitches well i wonder how he will bein doing late september...mabey more worn out than normal[/quote']

 

His body betrayed him in October when he played the whole season. He is still missing what amounts to 2 months as well as a full spring training. He should be ready right now, and he is needed right now. Our pitching options have dwindled significantly, and we have bent as far as we can without breaking. Clemens will help the stabilization of the team.

[jacksonianmarch]

Clemens is going to turn out to be the biggest waste of $28 million. He will be nothing more than an average pitcher in the AL' date=' but at 44, he probably wont be able to go past the 5th or 6th very often. Last year, Clemens averaged just under 6 innings a game. Add a year to his age and put him in the AL, with a DH in the place of a pitcher, and stronger lineups who will work the count better, and I can't image Clemens averaging more than 5 innings a game. Lets face it Clemens isn't the same pitcher he was 10 years ago and his numbers in the NL the last 2 years has been a bit misleading. He isn't goint to put up great numbers this season. So how will that help the Yankees?[/quote']

 

He isnt a 7 inning horse like he used to be and he isnt an ace any more either. But to say he will be a 5 inning pitcher is very simple minded to say the least. What one also must remember is that Clemens had very little run support and in the NL, the pitcher hits. Since Clemens kept the Stros in nearly every game, the Stros had to pinch hit for him and hence end his night. Now that that is gone, he should be expected to go a little further. But at the same time, he is moving to the AL where the hitting is tougher. So, I expect him to average right around 6 innings once again.

 

As far as his numbers being misleading, cmon man, have a better argument than that. That is nothing more than you being an idiot. He had a WHIP of 1.04, an ERA of 2.30, a K/9IP of 8.12 and a K/BB of 3.5.

 

That would have placed him at 1st in NL ERA by 0.6 runs per 9, 1st in WHIP by 0.04, 10th in K/9IP and right near Pedro in K/BB. So to say his numbers are misleading is stupid. His numbers are fantastic. If you want to say that he wont repeat those in the AL or that he is too old and might see a steep decline in stuff, then so be it. But dont say the numbers are misleading. You could say that he is injury prone and will hurt himself. But right now he is healthy and if you use that logic, you can harken back to the fact that Clemens had a pulled groin for half the season yet pitched through it.

 

Either way you put it, Clemens is still a very good pitcher. He may have limited durability. He may have been way too expensive. But to think that his presence in our rotation doesnt do anything for us is stupid. One thing it does do, as Dennis and Callahan so idiotically forgot, is that it makes us formidable 1-5 once Hughes comes back. That means, we can tear off a long stretch of wins once we get straightened out. Something that was not as feasible when guys like Karstens, Igawa, and Rasner were taking the bump. And long stretches is what we will need to get out of this hole.

 

If you wish to write us off, then fine, I can understand that. They are nearing the point where I will write em off too. But for now, they have 6 against you guys in a 2 week span and are suddenly getting Roger and Hughes back and have shown signs the last 2 nights of coming out of this funk offensively. I'd wait to see where we are on June 4th before you start dancing in the streets.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

He isnt a 7 inning horse like he used to be and he isnt an ace any more either. But to say he will be a 5 inning pitcher is very simple minded to say the least. What one also must remember is that Clemens had very little run support and in the NL' date=' the pitcher hits. Since Clemens kept the Stros in nearly every game, the Stros had to pinch hit for him and hence end his night. Now that that is gone, he should be expected to go a little further. But at the same time, he is moving to the AL where the hitting is tougher. So, I expect him to average right around 6 innings once again. [/quote']

 

Clemens will be better than average...I don't want to hear any of this "average" stuff coming from Sox fans. Is he going to win a Cy Young? I strongly doubt it...but he's still a guy capable of giving you a QS 9 times out of 10. It's hard to predict wins for Clemens because you don't know when the Yankee offense is going to break out of their unprecedented (for them, anyways) slump...but I look for Clemens to have an ERA riiiiiiiiight around 4 give or take, a WHIP of about 1.3, and 8K/9. I think those are pretty fair expectations, and hardly average especially considering the division.

[TedWilliams101]

I'm not denying that he put up great numbers the last few years, but I'm saying that they are misleading because of the league he is pitching in. Some people believe Clemens will put up great numbers like that in the AL. THAT is just plain stupid thought. There is far more reason to believe that Clemens wont do any better for the Yankees than he did in the 5 year stretch from 99-03, but then add 4 years to his age since 03 and duribility concerns, and you have trouble.

 

I also disagree to an extent with you saying that his innings per game in Hou was misleading. Yes, there were situations where he was taken out for a PH, but last season he threw 1827 pitches through 113 innings. That equates to just over 16 pitches an inning. That means he is reaching 100 pitches on average after the 6th inning. Now, add another year to his age, throw him in the AL with a DH and tougher lineups, and tell me how he is going to be doing better than that? It is very reasonable to believe he is only going to be able to pitch an average of about 5 innings a game.

 

I agree that he will at least bring some stability to your rotation. But honestly, I think a rookie in the rotation would have a better overall value. He would probably give you similar performance, but probably give you more innings, a full season, and it wouldn't cost the team a penny. I don't think Clemens is worth it at $28 million and I don't think he would make signicantly more of a difference than say a rookie from the farm system.

[TedWilliams101]

But you have to remember, if he only averages around 5 innings a game, that puts alot of work on an already overworked pen. Thats part of the problem. Yes he will still give the Yankees a chance to win games, but if he is only going 5 innings a game, thats not going to help the pen. I'm certainly not writing off the Yankees, I just don't think Clemens will significantly help your team like a lot of people think.

[Ray10]

I hope the Jays rock this clown. But he's not gonna do much in the league anyways. Guys is old and it's as simple as that. ERA will be above 4 all year.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not denying that he put up great numbers the last few years' date=' but I'm saying that [b']they are misleading because of the league he is pitching in[/b].

 

time to tear you apart. Okay, like I said before, he pitched in the NL. We already agree that that league is an easier league on pitchers. But a case could be made that Clemens, over the 119IP that he had last season, was the best pitcher in the NL. Are you saying that the best pitcher in the NL, the pitcher whose stats were better than the Oswalts, Peavys, and Zambranos of the world, would be well below average in the AL? That is dumb in and of itself.

 

Some people believe Clemens will put up great numbers like that in the AL.

 

who? Not one person on this site thinks that Clemens will have a sub 3 ERA in the AL. NOBODY.

 

THAT is just plain stupid thought. There is far more reason to believe that Clemens wont do any better for the Yankees than he did in the 5 year stretch from 99-03, but then add 4 years to his age since 03 and duribility concerns, and you have trouble.

 

Depends on which seasons you want to dissect. If you wish to look at his first season in the Bronx as more of a fluke (a 4.3 BB/9IP was WAY over his career average) then you can say that his 5 yr stretch in NY was nothing short of stellar. And, for argument's sake, you could say that Roger is pitching better than ever, mostly because he is much more accurate. His last 2 yrs in Houston, he was well below his career BB/9IP average and it showed in his ERA and his WHIP. And for adjustment's sake, if you wish to see what equivalent WHIPs in the two different leagues comes out to, you can look at his last season in pinstripes and his first season in Houston. The same WHIP, but a run less per 9IP. But the last 2 seasons, the WHIP has been 0.16 and 0.12 below his career WHIP. In any league, that is pretty damn good. Either way, he has actually gotten BETTER even though his age has increased, in the NL. His injury history is worth noting, but at the same time, the guy has made 30+ starts every single season he had played since 1995 aside from last yr simply because he was playing a shortened season. And even in his short season, he still missed only one start and pitched to a 6IP average. He will have his aches and pains, but his injury history has been vastly overblown.

 

I also disagree to an extent with you saying that his innings per game in Hou was misleading. Yes, there were situations where he was taken out for a PH, but last season he threw 1827 pitches through 113 innings. That equates to just over 16 pitches an inning. That means he is reaching 100 pitches on average after the 6th inning.

 

And your point being? Joe Torre is a pretty stupid manager. He lets his pitchers throw until 100 pitches and takes them out, but he usually waits until the end of innings or if a runner reaches. Clemens averaged 16 pitches per inning. That means he doesnt hit 100 until he is in his 7th inning, and you can be sure Torre wont pull Roger at 97 pitches to start the 7th if he is going good. And, if Clemens averaged getting to 97 pitches after 6 innings, then he will be on average a 6 inning pitcher. That wont change too much in the AL.

 

Now, add another year to his age, throw him in the AL with a DH and tougher lineups, and tell me how he is going to be doing better than that?

 

He may throw a few more pitches, but it isnt like he will lose it all at once. Last yr he was dominant against major league players. He wont come over and suck. No matter how you try to twist it, our point wont be met. Any way you turn it, he was one of the best pitchers in the majors last yr. Deal with it.

 

It is very reasonable to believe he is only going to be able to pitch an average of about 5 innings a game.

 

no it isnt. You have no precedent. NONE. Stop being assinine.

 

I agree that he will at least bring some stability to your rotation. But honestly, I think a rookie in the rotation would have a better overall value.

 

I think the A's care more about saving a few bucks than we do. It is all about performance and if he can have 6 innings per start and keep his era around or below 4, he will be worth every penny to yankee fans. Who gives a s*** about value.

 

He would probably give you similar performance, but probably give you more innings, a full season, and it wouldn't cost the team a penny.

 

another moronic quote. So having an icon like Clemens on your team when he is still effective does nothing for your team? Do you know anything about the psychology of baseball? Clemens gives your team the feeling that they can win every time out. No rookie does that because even the best rookies hit a wall here and there. Clemens also brings a swagger back, something we lost when we disassembled the rotation after the 03 debachle. Clemens is the pitcher who will command the inside part of the plate and protect his hitters. He's the kind of guy to brush back Papi and throw one high and tight to Manny. Nobody, aside from a dirtdog like Trot Nixon, got comfortable against Roger. This is something he brings and his lessons to guys like Hughes and Clippard could come very much in handy.

 

I don't think Clemens is worth it at $28 million and I don't think he would make signicantly more of a difference than say a rookie from the farm system.

 

Depends on the rookie in terms of overall performance. I would say Hughes and Clemens may win the same amount of games this season. But aside from the best pitching prospect in baseball, there is no other rookie I'd say could put up Clemens' numbers. And like I said, no rookie brings the kind of swagger that Clemens does, and he wont engender the same kind of fight that Clem would. This guy has been doing this a long time. Dont think that experience and raw talent as well as knowledge wont help this team and this pitching staff.

[jacksonianmarch]

I hope the Jays rock this clown. But he's not gonna do much in the league anyways. Guys is old and it's as simple as that. ERA will be above 4 all year.

 

 

wonderful argument. Old guys cannot be dominant. Tell that to Schilling and Maddux.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

wonderful argument. Old guys cannot be dominant. Tell that to Schilling and Maddux.

 

[yeszir]

wonderful argument. Old guys cannot be dominant. Tell that to Schilling and Maddux.

 

And Franco.

[Ray10]

wonderful argument. Old guys cannot be dominant. Tell that to Schilling and Maddux.

 

Yeah but Schilling and Maddux aren't the ones who will have their nuts in their throat. Can't wait until he gets lit up like a Christmas tree and all you Yankees fans will be hating on him saying the Yanks wasted their money.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah but Schilling and Maddux aren't the ones who will have their nuts in their throat. Can't wait until he gets lit up like a Christmas tree and all you Yankees fans will be hating on him saying the Yanks wasted their money.

 

bring an argument Ray. I have done the work for you. This is nothing more than antagonistic BS.

 

Here are a few things you can say that I wont debate you on.

 

1. Roger is older, so his durability could be a concern.

2. He is transitioning from the NL to the AL

3. He is rushing his rehab

4. He may lose some ticks off the heat.

 

I wont debate you on that. Hence why I dont think he posts an ERA any lower than 3.5 after being in the 1's and low 2's the last 2 seasons. Hell, he may post one near or even above 4. But to say that he will have little effect on the team is a very poor argument. If Beckett were down for the season (theoretical, not actual) and you had to parade Tavarez and Gabbard out there every 5th day, you'd love to have a guy like Clemens. Now we are parading out DeSalvo and Clippard, DeSalvo being a guy who at best is a back of the rotation guy and Clippard is a mid rotation guy in waiting, but I think he isnt ready for the long haul yet. Neither are as good an option as Clemens or Hughes for that matter.

 

If we had a rotation with TClip and Hughes in it right now and both were lights out from the getgo, then I'd agree with you. But with our penchant for our pitchers dropping like flies, we need stability. And as much as you hate to admit it, Rocket brings that.

[MANNYHOF24]

bring an argument Ray. I have done the work for you. This is nothing more than antagonistic BS.

 

Here are a few things you can say that I wont debate you on.

 

1. Roger is older, so his durability could be a concern.

2. He is transitioning from the NL to the AL

3. He is rushing his rehab

4. He may lose some ticks off the heat.

 

I wont debate you on that. Hence why I dont think he posts an ERA any lower than 3.5 after being in the 1's and low 2's the last 2 seasons. Hell, he may post one near or even above 4. But to say that he will have little effect on the team is a very poor argument. If Beckett were down for the season (theoretical, not actual) and you had to parade Tavarez and Gabbard out there every 5th day, you'd love to have a guy like Clemens. Now we are parading out DeSalvo and Clippard, DeSalvo being a guy who at best is a back of the rotation guy and Clippard is a mid rotation guy in waiting, but I think he isnt ready for the long haul yet. Neither are as good an option as Clemens or Hughes for that matter.

 

If we had a rotation with TClip and Hughes in it right now and both were lights out from the getgo, then I'd agree with you. But with our penchant for our pitchers dropping like flies, we need stability. And as much as you hate to admit it, Rocket brings that.

 

His ERA's for the last three years are completely irelevant, he has not posted an ERA bellow 3.51 in the AL since 1998. He was a 6 inning pitcher in the NL last year. How does that translate? I think to say that Clemens is worth what they are paying him especially if the Yankees fall further out is an absolute joke.

[jacksonianmarch]

His ERA's for the last three years are completely irelevant' date=' he has not posted an ERA bellow 3.51 in the AL since 1998. He was a 6 inning pitcher in the NL last year. How does that translate? I think to say that Clemens is worth what they are paying him especially if the Yankees fall further out is an absolute joke.[/quote']

 

the point is not "is he worth what the yankees are paying him". The answer is absolutely NO. The only pitcher in the game worth 28 mil is Santana and even that is debatable. The question is whether he helps stabilize this rotation.

 

As far as his 3.51ERA in 98, Clemens is a little bit of a different pitcher nowadays. His control has been much better and he has mastered the splitter. He has become a finesse pitcher in his old age, but his power hasnt left him. He still hits 93-94 regularly. And, the hitters havent seen him in a little while. So I think he has the edge there. I think he will be very good for us. But to expect him to do what he has done the past 3 seasons is ridiculous.

[TedWilliams101]

Last night didn't look too good for Clemens. He only went 5 1/3 innings, throwing 102 pitches, giving up 3 ER on 6 hits, and 4 walks. Against a terrible offensive AA seadogs team.

 

Guys, he's a 5 inning pitcher at best in the AL. He's just too old, and rushing him back is not helping either. He looked pretty bad his last outing, he was wild and was hanging pitches left and right.

[arbitrary]

The Onion on Clemens return:

 

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/experts_predict_man_who

[RedSoxRooter]

SI is reporting he may not be ready for the Sox series next weekend. And theoretically, if he pitches on Saturday or Sunday in Boston, he'd be pushing Pettitte out of the series. I personally would love it if he did come back next weekend just so there would be no Pettitte.

[redsoxrules]

SI is reporting he may not be ready for the Sox series next weekend. And theoretically' date=' if he pitches on Saturday or Sunday in Boston, he'd be pushing Pettitte out of the series. I personally would love it if he did come back next weekend just so there would be no Pettitte.[/quote']

 

this makes me laugh so much , not ready? how the f*** cant he be not ready ? il bet ya if he stinks his next start he's gonna push it back again

[RedSoxRooter]

I'm just trying to get the rotation down.

 

21 Wang - W

22 Moose - L

23 Pettitte -W

24 off (skip#4)

25 Clippard - today

26 Wang

27 Moose

28 Pettitte (Clemens start)

29 4

30 Clippard

31 off

 

Sox series:

01 Wang

02 Could be Clemens or Moose

03 Could be Moose, could be Clemens (on an extra day's rest) or Pettitte

 

So the Yanks best shot at the series is going Wang/Moose/Pettitte.

If Clemens returns it would be Wang/Clemens/Moose. So folks, I do not think the Yanks are that dumb. We probably will not see Clemens next weekend at the Fens.

 

am I right???

[TheKilo]

My dad said he heard on the radio that Torre said Clemens won't start against Boston.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/25/yankees.clemens.ap/index.html

[jacksonianmarch]

they wont send Clemens to Boston in his first start back in NY. No way.

[a700hitter]

What an overpaid pussy! Are they afraid of ruining the 23 year veteran's psyche? What a pussy. He should be demanding the ball.