Coco Crisp - How long should the leash be?

[schillingouttheks]

I mentioned it in the gamethread last night.

 

Oh. As in, yes you would like to see that, or were you just asking about it?

[TheKilo]

Oh. As in' date=' yes you would like to see that, or were you just asking about it?[/quote']

 

Just asking about it.

[CrespoBlows]

wmp sucks

he flat out sucks and if the front office thought otherwise they wouldnt have invested 70M in dl drew to replace K pena

 

He is a disaster in RF, he could hit 35 HR's and not make up for the amount of doubles he watched drop.

 

However, he is an adequete CF, and coupled with his powerful bat, you have an above average CF.

 

crisp isnt hitting for s*** either

but hes playing a solid cf and has had some timely hits

 

Timely hits? You know he's hitting like .242 with RISP?

 

he runs very very well and lets face it,he wasnt paid 14M per to protect manny in the lineup

 

No, he was paid to get on base at a respectable clip, hit at least 15-20 HR's, and not have a terrible glove in CF. He has failed at all of these tasks. Though in fairness, his glove is better this year.

 

if crisp can hit .270 with 20sb,75runs and good D i'll take it for his price

 

That will likely mean, he has a .300 OBP, which is absolutely pathetic. A high SLG% can sometimes negate a low OBP, Coco cannot compensate at all.

 

if drew hits .250 with less power than duddy pedroia in 120games(he will be on the dl before too long) i wont be surprised but rather pissed off

 

A guy with a career .305 EQA, and a career .285 batting average is suddenly going to turn into an average ballplayer? Sorry, I don't see it happening.

 

if wily mo pena gets 400abs he'll have 175ks

if he gets 50 starts in the outfield he'll have 40 errors

 

Bit of an overstatement. Just a bit.

 

i find it sickening that we own drew for 4 more seasons as andruw jones ichiro and tori hunter will be available come 7/30.

 

Drew is probably better than Ichiro and Hunter. Jones will get a massive deal on the free agent market.

 

I don't understand why you like Jones. His defense is starting to slip, and he strikes out 25% of the time. He does have awesome power, but will he sustain that?

[ANiMAL]

Its not as much as you think

 

ouch:(

[BoSox34]

I like Adam' date=' he makes me look good.[/quote']

 

Hahaha, you're aright in my book after that one.

[Rdsxmbnt]

ouch:(

 

I was just making a snide remark

[ksushi]

Can you clear this up for me? I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that you don't worry about WMP grounding into a DP because chances are he'll hit a long flyball or strikeout? Because I worry about him getting down the line a lot more than I would worry about Coco grounding into a double play taking their respective speeds into account. Do you see what I mean?

 

My point isn't about speed, though despite his size, Wily Mo can move. My point is about K's versus guys who are more likely to ground out. I would rather see a guy at the plate with the bases chucked who can hit it far or strike out than a guy who hits mostly for contact and might put it on the ground potentially getting 2 outs on one swing of the bat. When you K, you can only get out once.

[schillingouttheks]

My point isn't about speed' date=' though despite his size, Wily Mo can move. My point is about K's versus guys who are more likely to ground out. I would rather see a guy at the plate with the bases chucked who can hit it far or strike out than a guy who hits mostly for contact and might put it on the ground potentially getting 2 outs on one swing of the bat. When you K, you can only get out once.[/quote']

 

Gotcha, thanks.

[adam123]

Wily Mo is no relief. Do we really need Rob Deer back on the Red Sox? Strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, home run, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, home run....etc.

[schillingouttheks]

But, a strikeout is better than grounding into a double play, right?

[adam123]

He will do that later in the game

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Wily Mo is no relief. Do we really need Rob Deer back on the Red Sox? Strikeout' date=' strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, home run, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, home run....etc.[/quote']

 

Yes, we honest and truly do. You are an idiot. If you want to compare Wily Mo to Rob Deer, you're comparing him to a guy who was in the top 15 in the league in HRs, top 15 in the league in BBs...I'll take both of those things. We've already gone over this when someone compared him to Adam Dunn...you'd opt OUT of having Adam Dunn on your team? Are you serious? I don't expect Pena to put up Adam Dunn's numbers, but he could be close with some time. And I think he could be far BETTER than Deer.

[adam123]

I dont understand we are doing good have best record in the game right now and all you guys wana do is f*** up the line up .. if its not broke dont mess with it . coco is much faster than will mo strike out .Plays better in the field but you guys wana replace him with the biggest error prone player on the team .

[TheKilo]

I dont understand we are doing good have best record in the game right now and all you guys wana do is f*** up the line up

 

Is it not the goal of a team to put the best team on the field possible?

 

 

coco is much faster than will mo strike out

 

Speed is no good if he can't get on base. WMP is better at that, too.

 

 

Plays better in the field but you guys wana replace him with the biggest error prone player on the team .

 

Wily Mo Pena is a league average CF and has a huge advantage over Crisp offensively.

 

Wily Mo Pena is a league average CF and has a huge advantage over Crisp offensively.

 

Wily Mo Pena is a league average CF and has a huge advantage over Crisp offensively.

 

Wily Mo Pena is a league average CF and has a huge advantage over Crisp offensively.

 

Wily Mo Pena is a league average CF and has a huge advantage over Crisp offensively.

 

Wily Mo Pena is a league average CF and has a huge advantage over Crisp offensively.

[Cocos Disciples]

I dont understand we are doing good have best record in the game right now and all you guys wana do is f*** up the line up .. if its not broke dont mess with it . coco is much faster than will mo strike out .Plays better in the field but you guys wana replace him with the biggest error prone player on the team .

 

Why not try to improve? When we settle for what we have, we can't get better. Besides, adding a better player and subtracting a worse one isn't f***ing it up. I know we have the best record, but why does that mean we can't improve?

[Mr Crunchy]

coco is a joke??

45abs pena has 18ks and 5 rbi and everything hit his way turns into a f***ing adventure

im not 1 for bringing rookies up as we sit in the throne of having the best record in the league but it appears drew is going to need his 50 games off this year,the cf will struggle to hit .250 and the 4th outfielder may break rob deeres record for ks in 1/2 the ab's

hinske is hitting .200

 

outfielders are cheap,we need some help there i fear

[ryanromine]

I like Coco! I see him get to a lot of balls hit to the outfield that most people cant get to! If WMP could hit the breaking pitches it would be nice to see him get some ABs, but when it gets into the late months when it counts and he's up to bat with RISP, I don't think he can get the job done as of right now!

 

Ellsbury would be a nice addition to the team, maybe calling him up to be on the playoff roster would be a good choice, or maybe not! Looking at his stats throughout his career he has been a really consistent hitter and a defensive standout! I would like to see him someday be the everyday CF

[BoSox21]

f*** man, you really love exclamation points

 

Coco is fine to keep the seat warm for Ellsbury

[ryanromine]

well yeah, coco's bat has been dismal he is batting .231 (right .300/ left .207), but his glove has been exceptional (1.000/99 PO/100 TC/ 1 A/ 1 DP) he may not be a gold glover like Torii Hunter, but I'll take his glove over WMP anyday

[BoSox21]

we're at the top of the league in runs without Manny hitting his stride so I'm not gonna complain about Coco's bat

[ryanromine]

I'm not either just stating some facts

[CrespoBlows]

coco is a joke??

45abs pena has 18ks and 5 rbi and everything hit his way turns into a f***ing adventure

 

Hard to get RBI's when you are batting 8th in the lineup.

 

Please explain to me why he rates as an average CF defensively?

[seabeachfred]

I think it's time for a change in CF. Coco Crisp has been awful offensively for the Red Sox in CF this year, and I think it's high time we gave WMP his fair shake. While most WMP detractors will say " We don't want his awful defensive skills in the OF", keep in mind that most defensive metrics have Wily Mo Pena as a league average centerfirelder.

 

I think that Wily Mo Pena can provide a .800+ OPS with consistent playing time. Getting that out of your centerfielder would be absolutely a huge advantage for the Red Sox.

 

I want to like Coco Crisp, I really do. However my patience is wearing thin and I think it's time to get his sub-.600 OPS out of the lineup. Now we are winning lots of games, and that's fantastic, but sooner or later Crisp's .276 OBP is really going to show up as a black hole.

 

I have to think that if he doesn't turn this around by June 1, we'll be seeing a lot more of Wily Mo.

 

Let me run this by now Kilo.....What if we bring up David Murphy and put him out there, at least against righthanders??? He was hitting 318 at Pawtucket at last glance, can field with the best of them, runs the bases well and has some power---certainly more than Crisp has shown this season???? For some reason the Red Sox kind of diss David but from what I saw of him at Yankee Stadium last September I was pretty impressed with what I saw. I think this guy is a late bloomer.

[CrespoBlows]

Let me run this by now Kilo.....What if we bring up David Murphy and put him out there' date=' at least against righthanders??? He was hitting 318 at Pawtucket at last glance, can field with the best of them, runs the bases well and has some power---certainly more than Crisp has shown this season???? For some reason the Red Sox kind of diss David but from what I saw of him at Yankee Stadium last September I was pretty impressed with what I saw. I think this guy is a late bloomer.[/quote']

 

This is a good idea, but I can see a few problems arising from it.

 

Do we designate Hinske for assignment? He certaintly has his uses as a LH hitter off the bench. Murphy is probably more useful.

 

Do we risk stunting Murphy's growth? Some other team might view him as a regular. He would be better off playing everyday as a showcase.

 

His splits against RH pitchers are .314/.426/.471/.896.

[Mr Crunchy]

coco is 1 of 2 men on this team who can run

they have indeed manufactured some timely runs with him on the field and please lets not compare the 2 in the field

wmp is a f***ing disgrace in the outfield,hes liable to hurt himself or someone else out there

he did show some patience last nite and if he continues to lay off the breaking balls in the dirt he will help this team

i like hinske better as the #4 outfielder

pena wouldve been 20 feet short of that play in right

drew wouldve played it on a hop

theres really no need to f*** with anything at this point

they just took 3-4 from the al champs

schilling gives up 8 xtra base hits including a hr and allows 2 runs??

amazing

[seabeachfred]

coco is 1 of 2 men on this team who can run

they have indeed manufactured some timely runs with him on the field and please lets not compare the 2 in the field

wmp is a f***ing disgrace in the outfield,hes liable to hurt himself or someone else out there

he did show some patience last nite and if he continues to lay off the breaking balls in the dirt he will help this team

i like hinske better as the #4 outfielder

pena wouldve been 20 feet short of that play in right

drew wouldve played it on a hop

theres really no need to f*** with anything at this point

they just took 3-4 from the al champs

schilling gives up 8 xtra base hits including a hr and allows 2 runs??

amazing

 

Crunch, good post even though you had the insight of after-the-fact- success last night to post your gem. If it ain't broke don't fix it could be the theme of your thread but think of how much easier it could be if some of our non-producers started hitting. Hinske really came through last night at both ends of the game, defense and offense, and we all know how much he enjoys playing for the Red Sox and is willing to accept his role. Not all players who were Rookies of the Year would act that way. Kuddos for him for his great attitude. Just some more consistency and more of what we saw last night and we could all smile more. Pena? Three walks? Laying off the breaking ball on the outside? It is like Neil Armstrong's bellowing: "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." It would be great if he really turns a corner on that.

[adam123]

Crunch' date=' good post even though you had the insight of after-the-fact- success last night to post your gem. If it ain't broke don't fix it could be the theme of your thread but think of how much easier it could be if some of our non-producers started hitting. Hinske really came through last night at both ends of the game, defense and offense, and we all know how much he enjoys playing for the Red Sox and is willing to accept his role. Not all players who were Rookies of the Year would act that way. Kuddos for him for his great attitude. Just some more consistency and more of what we saw last night and we could all smile more. Pena? Three walks? Laying off the breaking ball on the outside? It is like Neil Armstrong's bellowing: "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." It would be great if he really turns a corner on that.[/quote']

 

Holy s*** he layed off breaking balls . 3 walks holy s*** . also man Hinsky needs to be the 4th out fielder .

[TheKilo]

Pena - .250 AVG/.353 OBP/.432 SLG/.785 OPS

 

Crisp - .232 AVG/.286 OBP/.310 SLG/.596 OPS

 

Anyone have updated defensive stats? I gotta think Crisp's got a large advantage, does it cover the offensive discrepancy?

 

VORP - Pena 1.2 (Drew is at 1.1); Crisp -2.2

[TheKilo]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/smaxwell98/coco.jpg

[seabeachfred]

Let me guess Kilo----you don't like Crisp. I'm not too fond of him myself and I think he is going to be given only a couple more months to get his stuff together. You may find your Wily Mo playing more in CF. What Crisp does give us is a guy who can steal a lot of bases, that is if he can get on base. I think that is what is behind Red Sox thinking of keeping him in the lineup, plus his defense hasn't really been all that bad.