Coco Crisp - How long should the leash be?

[CrespoBlows]

I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TAKE IT . OK CALLING PEOPLE RETARDS AND IDIOTS AND TELLING PEOPLE THERE MOM DOES HERIOIN DURING BIRH YA THATS NOT RIPING US OK . and willy mo does suck

 

I will leave you alone if you :

 

1. Stop saying Wankees. Not funny.

 

2. Stop saying Wily Mo Pop Up. Not funny.

 

3. Explain why Wily Mo Pena sucks even though he is a .300 hitter, and has unbelievable power.

 

4. Explain why Wily Mo's strikeouts hurt the team, more than his power helps.

 

5. Why Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa both fanned over 150 times, but were extremely productive hitters.

[TheKilo]

Well if JD Drew's out for a while looks like I'll get my wish.

[BSN07]

Cerrano will get the start today anyway because there facing a LH. Then they will evaluate JD later today. It sucks if hes hurt but atleast he was trying for the ball when it happend, good effort...

[Cityofchampions33]

Between the 0-fers in CF and RF, WMP should be getting some substantial ABs around now, until Drew wakes up, and hopefully the same with Crisp, though that slump has been a bit longer than a month.

[jacksonianmarch]

I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TAKE IT . OK CALLING PEOPLE RETARDS AND IDIOTS AND TELLING PEOPLE THERE MOM DOES HERIOIN DURING BIRH YA THATS NOT RIPING US OK . and willy mo does suck

 

comedic classic

[ANiMAL]

I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TAKE IT . OK CALLING PEOPLE RETARDS AND IDIOTS AND TELLING PEOPLE THERE MOM DOES HERIOIN DURING BIRH YA THATS NOT RIPING US OK . and willy mo does suck

 

I think somebody needs to take a nap Mr. Cranky.

 

Can you please explain to me why Wily Mo sucks?

 

He is a lefty killer, and I think that is very valuable.

[adam123]

I think somebody needs to take a nap Mr. Cranky.

 

Can you please explain to me why Wily Mo sucks?

 

He is a lefty killer, and I think that is very valuable.

 

 

1 He cant hit a curve ball also only can hit fast ball .

 

2 Plays the worst outfield ever .

 

3 strikes out all the time

 

4. Its just a matter of time before they give him nothing but off speed pitches he cant hit them to save his own ass .

[adam123]

I will leave you alone if you :

 

1. Stop saying Wankees. Not funny.

 

2. Stop saying Wily Mo Pop Up. Not funny.

 

3. Explain why Wily Mo Pena sucks even though he is a .300 hitter, and has unbelievable power.

 

4. Explain why Wily Mo's strikeouts hurt the team, more than his power helps.

 

5. Why Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa both fanned over 150 times, but were extremely productive hitters.

 

Ok Mr Blows , 1 wankees fine how about jankees is that better cause right now they are janky

2. How about willy mo strike out ? or willy mo sucks in the field ?

 

3. With limited at bats hell we can all hit 300 .Yes he does have unbelievable power to strike out , not hit a curve ball , ground out .

 

4. If you cant hit a curve or breaking stuff by now you really should not be in the game .

 

5. ROIDS , HGH , NOW SCRUBS ...

[ksushi]

Coco has until Ellsbury can't be denied anymore. Ellsbury heats up in AAA, he might get the job in the majors, he plays better defense and he can't hit any worse. He might even be faster than Coco. So, if Coco is still hitting below .250 when Ellsbury starts banging on the door, can you say no?

[CrespoBlows]

3. With limited at bats hell we can all hit 300

 

Give me a list of players who hit .300 with at least 275 AB's.

 

 

Yes he does have unbelievable power to strike out , not hit a curve ball , ground out .

 

With those limitations, he averaged 1 HR per every 17 AB's. Ortiz is around the 12 area, Manny around 13.

 

 

4. If you cant hit a curve or breaking stuff by now you really should not be in the game .

 

He must be doing something right. After all, he hit .300 in the bigs.

 

5. ROIDS , HGH , NOW SCRUBS ...

 

By your definition, players who strike out are bad. McGwire and Sosa, both fanned over 160 times. So in essence, you would rather have a Mario Mendoza, because he makes contact, over a McGwire or Sosa.

 

Tell me why this makes sense.

[ORS]

4. If you cant hit a curve or breaking stuff by now you really should not be in the game.

Whether or not he can, or should be able to, hit a curve is immaterial. The numbers are there. WMP makes outs in about 67% of his plate appearances right now. What we want you to answer is why one form of out, the strikeout, is worse than the other types of outs.

[adam123]

Well with drew out . willy mo will get his shot . To me it seems he always strikes out with runners on base . At least hit fly ball to move runners over . Really i would like to see him work out but i really dont think its gonna happen .

[adam123]

Its just a matter of time before all pitchers will give him steady diet of off speed pitches no more fastballs . He really just needs to lay off that down and away stuff take a walk .

[ORS]

Its just a matter of time before all pitchers will give him steady diet of off speed pitches no more fastballs . He really just needs to lay off that down and away stuff take a walk .

This "matter of time" has been in the works for a few years now. Do you really think they don't know his weakness already and are just figuring it out? Please. Every team has advance scouts and watches film. He's still going to get fastballs because situation will dictate it.

[adam123]

yes they do know his weakness . He really needs to learn how to hit the off speed stuff or he will never be full time player . so you think its alright he cant hit off speed pitches ?

[MANNYHOF24]

I think saying Willy Mo can not hit a curveball is a little incorrect. I mean I don't know the exact stats but I'm sure he has decent success with the breaking ball. Sure if they get ahead 0-2, he does have the tendency to strike-out on a curveball way out of the zone, but that doesn't really make him a horrible breaking ball hitter. I can remember on a couple of accounts last year when Willy Mo hit Curves to the opposite field for homeruns. If Drew misses substantial time, and Willy Mo performs, and Crisp continues to struggle then I think Willy should be the starter in CF. His defensive skills in center look much more natural then his skills in RF.

[ORS]

yes they do know his weakness . He really needs to learn how to hit the off speed stuff or he will never be full time player . so you think its alright he cant hit off speed pitches ?

If the final stat line is acceptable, why does it matter how you look getting there? Don't get me wrong, this isn't to say that there isn't room for improvement, but I don't think he's anywhere near as bad, overall, as the reactionary crowd suggests. You guys are fooled by your emotional reaction to him striking out.

[Mr Crunchy]

wmp sucks

he flat out sucks and if the front office thought otherwise they wouldnt have invested 70M in dl drew to replace K pena

 

crisp isnt hitting for s*** either

but hes playing a solid cf and has had some timely hits as well as hitting well against ny

he runs very very well and lets face it,he wasnt paid 14M per to protect manny in the lineup

 

if crisp can hit .270 with 20sb,75runs and good D i'll take it for his price

if drew hits .250 with less power than duddy pedroia in 120games(he will be on the dl before too long) i wont be surprised but rather pissed off

if wily mo pena gets 400abs he'll have 175ks

if he gets 50 starts in the outfield he'll have 40 errors

 

i find it sickening that we own drew for 4 more seasons as andruw jones ichiro and tori hunter will be available come 7/30.

[TheKilo]

And adam123 continues to be the biggest dicksmack on this board.

[redsoxrules]

I agree with crunchy ... if crisp can get his avg and OBP percentage up soon, id rather have him in CF , crisp has made quite a few great plays allready in CF . yeah his arm sucks but he covers alot a ground. can you imagine an outfield of manny,WMP and drew? that spells trouble on defense . Yeah he would give the team more productivity at the plate but he would also give it back with his lack of defense . WMP is fit to be a DH .

[ANiMAL]

And adam123 continues to be the biggest dicksmack on this board.

 

 

I like Adam, he makes me look good.

[ksushi]

The only thing about guys who strike out is they tend to have no consistency with their batting average. They might hit .301 one year and then .260 the next. Supposedly, guys who K a lot also age less gracefully than the guys that consistently make good contact. That said, I would rather have a guy hit .260 with plus power, and RBI potential, than a guy like crisp who best case scenario hits .260 with virtually zero potential for power or RBI who might make contact a little better. I would way rather see Wily Mo with the bases loaded, because he has a good chance of putting one over the wall for four runs and if there is 1 out, I'm not worried about Pena ending the game with one swing grounding into a DP. With Coco, I am. Strike outs have their uses. Besides, at least in limited time last year he hit .301 and showed good power. Sure he looked bad sometimes, but he is producing.

 

Personally, I'm not worried about how Wily Mo will age because I don't think he will still be here past his prime. I think he is capable of 30+ home runs, a good amount of RBI, and could protect anyone who bats in front of him because he always is a threat to go deep. Always.

 

I also don't care what his average is. If he plays enough, he is a presence, its just where do you play him. Thats my problem with Wily Mo, he doesn't have a position because he is terrible every where. If I were Theo, I would think about maybe packaging wily with a Hansen or a Bard (at the deadline) and see if I couldn't reel in a quality reliever from someone out of the race. IF the Twins are out of it, Juan Rincon could be available. If the Rockies decide to have a fire sale, Fuentes could be out there. There are other guys too, but thats what I see wily mo being used for. Right now he has way more trade value than coco crisp does. He is 25, lots of hitting potential, he could DH for the twins which would be his best option.

 

He isn't a bad player, but because of Papi, he doesn't really have a role on the team and people think he is worse less than he is because in order to get him at bats, we have to watch him fumble around in the field and see the strike outs and the impatience at the plate. It makes people wanna strangle him. He has a lot of value to the right team... like the twins. I hope we can find something to put this division away out on the trade market, and wily mo could help us get that piece.

 

Kilo, you're the man.

[TheKilo]

I agree with crunchy ... if crisp can get his avg and OBP percentage up soon' date=' id rather have him in CF , crisp has made quite a few great plays allready in CF . yeah his arm sucks but he covers alot a ground. can you imagine an outfield of manny,WMP and drew? that spells trouble on defense . Yeah he would give the team more productivity at the plate but he would also give it back with his lack of defense . WMP is fit to be a DH .[/quote']

 

See, that's a fairly big "If", no? How much longer do you wait before you allow the black hole in the lineup to become a problem?

 

BTW, Drew is an above average outfielder in terms of defense. And WMP is an average one in center, but then again I continue to beat my head against the brick wall saying the same points over and over again.

 

Is it possible Coco's "great catches" are the result of poor reads?

[schillingouttheks]

I would way rather see Wily Mo with the bases loaded' date=' because he has a good chance of putting one over the wall for four runs and if there is 1 out, I'm not worried about Pena ending the game with one swing grounding into a DP. With Coco, I am.[/quote']

 

Can you clear this up for me? I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that you don't worry about WMP grounding into a DP because chances are he'll hit a long flyball or strikeout? Because I worry about him getting down the line a lot more than I would worry about Coco grounding into a double play taking their respective speeds into account. Do you see what I mean?

[ANiMAL]

I agree that I'd rather see WMP in a bases loaded situation. He's more likely to sac fly than Coco is, and he is more likely to put one over the wall.

[TheKilo]

Can anyone remember the last time Coco actually drove a ball?

 

When did he turn into a groundball/popup type hitter?

[redsoxrules]

See, that's a fairly big "If", no? How much longer do you wait before you allow the black hole in the lineup to become a problem?

 

BTW, Drew is an above average outfielder in terms of defense. And WMP is an average one in center, but then again I continue to beat my head against the brick wall saying the same points over and over again.

 

Is it possible Coco's "great catches" are the result of poor reads?

 

WMP isn't that great in CF either , he makes routine plays look hard . poor reads by coco? if you wanna talk about poor reads WMP is the king . and coco has hit better in the past so i know its possible that he can get his average up . id give him one more month to do so if not , then look for changes

[schillingouttheks]

WMP has astronomically better reads off the bat in CF. Coco had his fair share of aventures in CF last year. (Safeco Field, anyone?) Coco's been a joke lately. I can't stand it.

 

But right now we need WMP to hit. He'll probably get the start in RF tonight and he'll get more ABs than normal in light of Drew's situation.

 

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what do you guys think of Coco in RF and WMP in CF? The only thing I'm concerned about is Coco's s***** arm in Fenway's spacious RF.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I like Adam' date=' he makes me look good.[/quote']

 

Its not as much as you think

[TheKilo]

WMP isn't that great in CF either ' date=' he makes routine plays look hard . poor reads by coco? if you wanna talk about poor reads WMP is the king . and coco has hit better in the past so i know its possible that he can get his average up . id give him one more month to do so if not , then look for changes[/quote']

 

Well if they both suck at defense I'd rather have the big bat in the lineup.

 

 

 

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what do you guys think of Coco in RF and WMP in CF? The only thing I'm concerned about is Coco's s***** arm in Fenway's spacious RF.

 

I mentioned it in the gamethread last night.