April 11th vs. Seattle

[schillingouttheks]

Gom vs. Jacko? Classic!

[Gom]

[jacksonianmarch]

Ok now you have annoyed me. How many starts have you actually seen of this guy? I do a lot of travelling, so I have seen about ten of his starts throughout the minors when I was passing through.

 

Have you ever seen a start of his that wasn't broadcast on YES?

 

In fact, have you any information of his that hasn't been spoon-fed to you by the Yankee front office?

You know Jacks, you really aren't better than the red sox fans that get on here and proclaim what everyone tells them as the gospel truth.

 

Believe what you want, but realize one thing, just one thing....if he was as good as they said he was, he would be starting in NY. So, do me a favor..go back to being a closet Sox fan, and leave the real Yankee analysis to the people who know the Yankees.

 

 

I have seen 3 of his starts in person and whenever he was on TV. He was lights out.

 

And as far as him being in the Bronx already, have you any idea about player development? Arm development? Of course not, you are Gom. You have absolutely no idea what it takes to get a kid, A 20 YR OLD KID to get his arm strength up to last a full season and not be in the shitter come next yr. You want to see development gone awry? Look at Chicago, Mark Prior and Kerry Wood were run into the ground by their managers and their arms couldnt take it. Those two could have been in a battle for cy youngs every yr but now Prior is hurting in AAA and Wood cannot even stay healthy for one week.

 

As for your garbage, I look at stats too, and if you had any brain function higher than a 4 yr old, you'd see his level of domination has only come around every 10 yrs or so.

 

Now, take a look at organizational philosophy. This isnt YES fed BS, it bears out in the stats. Each starter coming in typically gets his slider junked and his curveball taught. The change comes next and the slider is added back in. Hughes is at the back end of this transition. And his arm needs stretching out. Anyone who is familiar with player development (obviously not you) knows that most teams take a HS kid and give him 80-100IP in his first full MiLB season, 120-130 in his second and 150-160 in his third. Hughes is in his final minor league season, and he is slotted to throw 180-190IP. Notice, add 30 for those who are math deficient. It isnt just the yankees who do this, the stats bear out for most teams who actually keep pitchers from exploding their shoulders early on.

 

So listen, if you think Hughes is going to be poor, I cannot help you, and that is your perogative. But nothing in his stuff, his performance, or his grooming is pointing that way. And when a site like BA, which is VERY anti- NY, lists Hughes as the best pitching prospect, you kinda try to listen.

[jacksonianmarch]

and as far as being a sox fan, cmon now Gom. You are on this site too, I can say the exact same thing back to you. But I think it might fit you better. Removed.

[ORS]

Easy Jack. That IQ dig doesn't line up with your, and Gom's, stated reasons for being here. According to you guys, you like this site better because you find the majority of Yankee fans idiotic. Now, I don't necessarily buy that as the real reason, but it's what you've put out there.

 

EDIT: Apology accepted.

[jacksonianmarch]

sorry sox fans, thats more a dig at gom than a dig at you.

[jacksonianmarch]

Easy Jack. That IQ dig doesn't line up with your' date=' and Gom's, stated reasons for being here. According to you guys, you like this site better because you find the majority of Yankee fans idiotic. Now, I don't necessarily buy that as the real reason, but it's what you've put out there.[/quote']

 

Nah ORS, I was trying to dig at Gom, not at you guys. It is removed.

[TheKilo]

POPCORN!?!?!!!!!!55%$##@$!^

[jacksonianmarch]

POPCORN!?!?!!!!!!55%$##@$!^

 

hahaha, touche.

[Gom]

I have seen 3 of his starts in person and whenever he was on TV. He was lights out.

 

And as far as him being in the Bronx already, have you any idea about player development? Arm development? Of course not, you are Gom. You have absolutely no idea what it takes to get a kid, A 20 YR OLD KID to get his arm strength up to last a full season and not be in the shitter come next yr. You want to see development gone awry? Look at Chicago, Mark Prior and Kerry Wood were run into the ground by their managers and their arms couldnt take it. Those two could have been in a battle for cy youngs every yr but now Prior is hurting in AAA and Wood cannot even stay healthy for one week.

 

As for your garbage, I look at stats too, and if you had any brain function higher than a 4 yr old, you'd see his level of domination has only come around every 10 yrs or so.

 

Now, take a look at organizational philosophy. This isnt YES fed BS, it bears out in the stats. Each starter coming in typically gets his slider junked and his curveball taught. The change comes next and the slider is added back in. Hughes is at the back end of this transition. And his arm needs stretching out. Anyone who is familiar with player development (obviously not you) knows that most teams take a HS kid and give him 80-100IP in his first full MiLB season, 120-130 in his second and 150-160 in his third. Hughes is in his final minor league season, and he is slotted to throw 180-190IP. Notice, add 30 for those who are math deficient. It isnt just the yankees who do this, the stats bear out for most teams who actually keep pitchers from exploding their shoulders early on.

 

So listen, if you think Hughes is going to be poor, I cannot help you, and that is your perogative. But nothing in his stuff, his performance, or his grooming is pointing that way. And when a site like BA, which is VERY anti- NY, lists Hughes as the best pitching prospect, you kinda try to listen.

 

God, I love stirring things up, lol.

 

Ok...I see your Wood and Prior, and I raise you a Dontrelle Willis and Felix Hernandez. Those guys came in young, younger than Hughes is at this point, pitched a lot of innings, and are doing absolutely fine. The point is that injuries are a part of the game, and with pitchers especially, it is an inexact science. Trends definitely show what you are saying to be the best course of action, with a ramping up of their workload, and I completely agree.

 

What I am questioning, is this kid's ceiling. I just don't see anything that makes me think he's lights out. Like I said before, I am not the best when it comes to talent evaluation, like most everyone else, I've gotten some right on the nose and missed out on others. I just see an average fastball, average curveball, below average changeup & slider. Nothing really stands out with this kid that I see.

 

I remember watching Felix Hernandez's first career start. He had a dynamite fastball that ran on the hitters at 98, and a sharp breaking curve that he couldn't control. I figured if he ever got his curveball under wraps and had a little better location on his fastball [he left it out over the plate too much], he would be awesome. As the Red Sox if he has figured it out yet.

 

I can't see that in Hughes. Give me Homer Bailey any day of the week.

 

Now, there is no one you will meet that wants to be wrong about Hughes than me. Maybe it's the cynic in me, I am a New Yorker, after all, but I just don't see what everyone is so fired up about with this kid.

 

Truthfully, jacko, how much do you really know about this kid that hasn't been spoon-fed to you? Outside of what I saw in spring training, and a couple of starts I saw while running around the country, I only know what they tell me. It's just what I've seen [i know the sample pool is small] doesn't mesh with what I've heard/read.

[Gom]

Easy Jack. That IQ dig doesn't line up with your, and Gom's, stated reasons for being here. According to you guys, you like this site better because you find the majority of Yankee fans idiotic. Now, I don't necessarily buy that as the real reason, but it's what you've put out there.

 

EDIT: Apology accepted.

 

Actually, that is it. Plus I like the banter here. Go check out the Yankees sites, read a few posts, you'll see what I mean. Posts about how the Yankees should package Andy Phillips and Eric Duncan for Johan Santana, etc.

 

It gets tiresome.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gom, how is Hughes fastball not a plus pitch? He sits 92-95 with him being clocked as high as 97. His curve ball is being billed by non-YES guys as the best in the minors. And both pitches he can locate on a dime (when he is going right). He doesnt have the awe-factor, I will give you that. Felix lights up scoreboards and has 2 breaking balls that are out of his world. Homer hits 100 regularly in games. But look at the whole shabang instead of one thing.

 

Huge arsenal? Got it. Plus plus curve and fastball (both 4 seam and 2 seam). Plus slider (to say his slider is average is very poor IMO) and an average change.

 

Makeup? Have you ever heard the kid talk? The kid almost has Manny's awareness for expectations and pressure. Pressure? What pressure? He's a laid back Cali kid who doesnt have the makeup that makes you worry about the NY hype machine.

 

Contol? Look at his WHIP and his BB/9 over his MiLB career and you can answer that for yourself.

 

And stats? The kid has a lower career MiLB WHIP than Mariano's best season WHIP. That is filthy. No doubt, this kid has a ceiling of being one of the best pitchers in the league (I liken him to a Mark Prior when he was healthy). That is all that you can go on at this point. But to say his heat isnt fast is very wrong.