Lester Rehab

[ksushi]

Hit 96 mph on the gun at Greenville. Anyone still think he needs a lot of time?

[TGov]

Lester went 4.0 scoreless innings and let up 1 hit... I heard he's gonna get at least 4 more minor league starts...

[mosox]

From ProJo on Lester's start Friday in Pawtucket:

 

The first and last pitch of his five-inning, 84-pitch outing registered 94 mph, and everything in between was efficient as he had solid command of the strike zone. He worked five shutout innings, allowing just three hits with six strikeouts and no walks.

 

“I felt good,” he said. “It was good to get the first one (at Triple A) under my belt. I got the reins off a little bit and was able to throw more pitches, so it was good.”

 

Lester is slated to start again for Pawtucket on Wednesday (90-95 pitches) before the Red Sox make a decision whether he’ll join Boston or continue with the PawSox. Because he’s been so good, it’s likely he’ll join the Sox’ rotation.

 

He retired the side in order in the first inning, needing just 15 pitches (10 strikes). In the second, he surrendered the first of three hits of the game — a single up the middle by the Bisons’ Joe Inglett — and faced only four batters, while tossing 22 pitches (15 strikes). In the third, he faced four batters — one reached on an error — and Lester threw 12 pitches (9 strikes).

 

After two quick outs in the fourth inning, he allowed another single to Inglett, but picked him off first base to end the inning after just 10 pitches (6 strikes). Lester closed out his outing with a 25-pitch inning (16 strikes) and allowed one hit to the Bisons’ Mike Rose.

 

Lester received another ovation as he left the field after the top of the fifth inning.

[BoSox21]

He seems ready enough and its not like he's being counted on to come up here and be a savior for the rotation

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/05/lester_has_fore.html

 

forearm cramping. This is exactly how Humberto Sanchez and Carl Pavano initially started. Send him for an MRI and stop his rehab for awhile.

[a700hitter]

This is why I don't get all excited about prospects. There are too many pitfalls. If he is injured, it is way too common a story. I remember reading an article in the 70's where Fisk was interviewed during Spring Training. He said that he didn't bother to talk to rookies in Camp, because they have very little chance of making the team and he didn't see any reason to develop a relationship with people that would be gone in a couple of weeks. At the time I though it was a little cold, but now I see his point. I'll get worked up about lester or Bucholz when they have 150+ innings under their belts in a year and 10 wins.

[ksushi]

Jesus christ, a minor fore-arm cramp and now hes carl pavano? Sometimes I wonder...

[jacksonianmarch]

Jesus christ' date=' a minor fore-arm cramp and now hes carl pavano? Sometimes I wonder...[/quote']

 

never read minor forearm cramp and think it is innocuous. A lot of elbow problems can start out symptomatically with forearm pain. I said the same thing once Pavano went down.

[a700hitter]

Jesus christ' date=' a minor fore-arm cramp and now hes carl pavano? Sometimes I wonder...[/quote']I wonder why we didn't pull the trigger on Lester, MDC, Hansen and Crisp for a total established major league stud like Oswalt. All 3 of those pitchers will not total Oswalt's career win #'s.

 

I really hope Lester starts to dominate in AAA and we move him in a package for a big time ML pitcher. If Lester starts to win with his new team, we can get him back when he becomes arbitration eligible by offering Bowden or some other top prospect. I have no patience for learning on the job with a $150 million payroll. Let someone else train him.

[CrespoBlows]

I wonder why we didn't pull the trigger on Lester' date=' MDC, Hansen and Crisp for a total established major league stud like Oswalt. All 3 of those pitchers will not total Oswalt's career win #'s.[/quote']

 

Because the Houston Astros said no to the deal?

 

I really hope Lester starts to dominate in AAA and we move him in a package for a big time ML pitcher.

 

List a few you might think are available.

 

If Lester starts to win with his new team, we can get him back when he becomes arbitration eligible by offering Bowden or some other top prospect.

 

It's really that simple?

[a700hitter]

Because the Houston Astros said no to the deal?

That's not what was being reported at the time. They walked away from the Red Sox offer, which was never disclosed. The Astros were rumored to be asking for the 3 pitchers and Crisp. Why would they walk away from the trade they proposed?

 

List a few you might think are available.

That's Theo's job to figure out who is available.

 

It's really that simple?

It depends on the organization he lands with. I remember getting a Cy Young winner from the Expos for our top two pitching prospects.

[TheKilo]

That's not what was being reported at the time. They walked away from the Red Sox offer' date=' which was never disclosed. The Astros were rumored to be asking for the 3 pitchers and Crisp. Why would they walk away from the trade they proposed?[/quote']

 

Source?

 

That's Theo's job to figure out who is available.

 

With the pitching market the way it is I highly doubt any big-time ML pitchers are available. Besides, if he dominates AAA he can help the team out by starting for us.

 

It depends on the organization he lands with. I remember getting a Cy Young winner from the Expos for our top two pitching prospects.

 

Bowden has the tendency to ask for the moon, remember? We went over this in the offseason when he was shopping Cordero.

[a700hitter]

Source?

This is slightly different than my recollection, but nonetheless the FO balked at dealing Lester.

 

From ProJo:

But the deal then hit two snags. While the Sox were willing to include Coco Crisp and Craig Hansen to get Jones, they were adamant in refusing the Braves' request to include rookie lefty Jon Lester. As good as Oswalt is, the Sox, currently shorthanded in their rotation, couldn't see the logic in subtracting one pitcher to add another.

 

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20060801_01seancol.1a4b47d.html

 

With the pitching market the way it is I highly doubt any big-time ML pitchers are available. Besides' date=' if he dominates AAA he can help the team out by starting for [b']us.[/b]

Maybe none are available today, but that could change in a month. Dominating in AAA is a far cry from succeeding in the majors.

[ksushi]

Young pitching is a huge asset to any organization and its so hard to acquire by trade or on the market. So Lester might not be Sandy Koufax, sorry. He hasn't played in the majors for a while and the sample size we have is very small and here you are petitioning to have this kid sent out for a bat boy. You need to calm down, we've all heard you sing this tune before, and frankly I don't think I'm alone in saying I'm quite bored of it.

 

Just don't say anything and wait and see what happens, thats really all we can do. I don't know that Lester will be great, but where do you get off telling all of us that you know he won't total any significant amount of wins the in the majors? What do you know more than all of us? I don't think so.

 

How bout just sit back and be the arm chair pundit you always are, but without so much lip action. It's getting boring, at least on this topic. There is only so much of the broken record that I can take.

[a700hitter]

Young pitching is a huge asset to any organization and its so hard to acquire by trade or on the market.

Oswalt is a young pitcher too... and he is an accomplished star.

I don't know that Lester will be great' date=' but where do you get off telling all of us that you know he won't total any significant amount of wins the in the majors? What do you know more than all of us? I don't think so.[/quote']I specifically said that I don't think the trio of MDC, Hansen and Lester will combine to win as many games as Oswalt. MDC is 25 an has 2 wins. By that age, Oswalt had 33 wins. Hansen and Lester are 23. When Oswalt was 23, he was in the midst of a 14-3 season with a 2.73 ERA. Hansen is not close to making it back to the majors and it remains to be seen when Lester will be called up. I stand by my statement that the 3 of these guys added together will not equal Oswalt's career. It was assinine not to have included Lester in that trade. They should have put on the full court press to get an accomplished young arm like Oswalt.

How bout just sit back and be the arm chair pundit you always are' date=' but without so much lip action. It's getting boring, at least on this topic. There is only so much of the broken record that I can take.[/quote']I don't have a good feeling about Lester. I have never been very impressed with his ability or execution, and I am not at all confident about his health. If he can be re-established as a premier prospect, I'd prefer that they move him to get a quality, proven ML starter.

[ksushi]

Why do you bother to compare what guys did at whatever age? Its not relative at all. Just stop, see what happens between now and the end of the year. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but either way you're down right redundant and pretty irritating saying the same thing over and over and over.

[a700hitter]

Why do you bother to compare what guys did at whatever age? Its not relative at all. Just stop' date=' see what happens between now and the end of the year. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but either way you're down right redundant and pretty irritating saying the same thing over and over and over.[/quote']It is not "relative" but it is "relevant" when people are so pumped about these young guys like they are going to be stars. Stars like Oswalt develop quite a bit faster than these guys. That's the point. Sometimes a guy with tremendous talent takes a while to get it together like Randy Johnson, but none of our guys our tremendous talents. In my opinion, they are not on a trajectory to be stars-- none of them. Oswalt is a star. Do you want to dispute that? I discussed what he did at earlier ages to illustrate the career path of a star. As for my redundancy, it annoys you because you disagree with my opinion. Your redundancy annoys me because you are wrong.

[ORS]

If we are just talking about the quality of play, then 700's right, you make that trade every day (assuming it was possible - which I doubt because no-brainers aren't usually true). What has yet to enter the discussion is what salary do you pare to put him on the roster? Like it or not, this team intends to come in right around LT threshold, so in terms of adding elite, established talent, you have to make room somewhere. No Drew? Ok, who plays RF? Crisp is gone? Ok, who plays CF?

 

It's easy to just sit there and say, I don't care what it costs, but that's not reality. If you want to opine what the GM should do, you need to address all the variables of roster construction. Failure to do that is about the same thing as turning off the "fair trade" button in an MLB video game and romping through a season.

 

EDIT: For this team to compete with the "no price is too high" team for elite talent in the FA market, they are going to have to have some players making the minimum. Papelbon, Pedroia, and Lester fit that bill, and make this team stronger in the long-haul.

[a700hitter]

If we are just talking about the quality of play, then 700's right, you make that trade every day (assuming it was possible - which I doubt because no-brainers aren't usually true). What has yet to enter the discussion is what salary do you pare to put him on the roster? Like it or not, this team intends to come in right around LT threshold, so in terms of adding elite, established talent, you have to make room somewhere. No Drew? Ok, who plays RF? Crisp is gone? Ok, who plays CF?

 

It's easy to just sit there and say, I don't care what it costs, but that's not reality. If you want to opine what the GM should do, you need to address all the variables of roster construction. Failure to do that is about the same thing as turning off the "fair trade" button in an MLB video game and romping through a season.

I trealize the realities of the situation, but we are only speaking hypothitically here. If you have a chance to get a stud like Andruw Jones, Oswalt etc., you do it and let the pointy headed numbers guys tell you how to make it work. Maybe you salary dump another guy on your roster, restructure a contract, or something else. There are numerous ways to make things work financially when you have the resources of the Red Sox.

[ORS]

Restructure a contract? I can't recall a single instance of that happening for a guy staying on the same team in baseball. Football? Happens every day, but I've only seen it done when someone is getting traded in baseball. I suspect the MLBPA would frown upon that, and they are the most powerful player's association union.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Hindsight is 20-20 on the Oswalt trade. If that trade (Lester, Coco, Hansen and Delcarmen) was proposed today then ya you would do it. But at the time of the trade Lester was one of our best SPs and a top prospect in baseball (5-1 3.49), Hansen looked to be our future CL, Delcarmen looked to potentially be the set-up man and Coco was a 26 yr old OF coming off an injury and a good previous season. As good as Oswalt was(is) I remember thinking that package was too much back then.

[a700hitter]

Restructure a contract? I can't recall a single instance of that happening for a guy staying on the same team in baseball. Football? Happens every day' date=' but I've only seen it done when someone is getting traded in baseball. I suspect the MLBPA would frown upon that, and they are the most powerful player's association union.[/quote']It was tried in the ARod aborted transaction, but the union stepped in. Don't seize upon the one thing in my statement to try to invalidate it. When it comes to finances and making the numbers work, plenty of things can be done. I am sure that they will make the numbers work if Clemens comes to Boston. When you have a chance to get one of the top players in the game, you go for it. On a 25 man roster, there are plenty of guys that I'd get rid of, dump if it meant getting Andruw Jones or Oswalt on the Roster.

[a700hitter]

Hindsight is 20-20 on the Oswalt trade. If that trade (Lester' date=' Coco, Hansen and Delcarmen) was proposed today then ya you would do it. But at the time of the trade Lester was one of our best SPs and a top prospect in baseball (5-1 3.49), Hansen looked to be our future CL, Delcarmen looked to potentially be the set-up man and Coco was a 26 yr old OF coming off an injury and a good previous season. As good as Oswalt was(is) I remember thinking that package was too much back then.[/quote']That's the point. You couldn't do that trade today. Houston is going to want a pitcher with cancer and two bums in the minors for a perennial Cy Young candidate? Although Lester was performing well at the time, he was still a prospect. Oswalt was/is a star. The FO blew it in my opinion. I said it at the time, so there is no hindsight here. What has occurred since has done nothing to prove me wrong. I don't expect that the future performance of these prospects will prove me wrong either.

[ORS]

It was tried in the ARod aborted transaction' date=' but the union stepped in. Don't seize upon the one thing in my statement to try to invalidate it. When it comes to finances and making the numbers work, plenty of things can be done. I am sure that they will make the numbers work if Clemens comes to Boston. When you have a chance to get one of the top players in the game, you go for it. On a 25 man roster, there are plenty of guys that I'd get rid of, dump if it meant getting Andruw Jones or Oswalt on the Roster.[/quote']

Ok, so you are dumping people. Who replaces them? If you are going to add salary with some big names, then you pare it down by dropping some lesser names and calling kids up who make the minimum. Of course, you just traded away the best kids to get the big names, so you are bringing up lesser prospects with more flaws and less talent. Color me unimpressed with that philosophy. I think you get some elite players, like they have now, and you surround them with a supporting staff with less deficiencies. That's just me.

[a700hitter]

Ok' date=' so you are dumping people. Who replaces them? If you are going to add salary with some big names, then you pare it down by dropping some lesser names and calling kids up who make the minimum. Of course, you just traded away the best kids to get the big names, so you are bringing up lesser prospects with more flaws and less talent. [/quote']That's where the talent of your scouting and management comes into play. Talent below the top tier stars is what they are paid to evaluate, and it is where they are paid to find the bargains. Top tier star talent is unique. You can't get it cheaply,and it doesn't take a whole lot of scouting or management skill to recognize it for what it is. When you have the opportunity to get it, you go and get it and utilize the talents of the FO to get the best support staff to go with them. Front Offices of teams like Oakland with limited budgets have done great jobs of building competitive teams. After taking on a star like an Oswalt, Andruw Jones or Helton or all of the them for that matter, the Red Sox would still have more of a the budget than the A's. That's where the FO needs to earn its money. You are accepting of an under performing FO that has been overpaying for mediocre talent. That's unimpressive. Good management pays for the unique star talent and it finds bargains and value among the rest of the pool. Star talent doesn't come at a discount, and the big markets can afford more of it than the other teams. The reason that they haven't been more successful isn't because they sign too many stars. It's because they have not spent wisely for the talent below star level.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Lester making his first start in AAA since the forearm:

 

3.2 IP, 1 hit, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 Ks (he had a 50 pitch limit)

 

Hansen pitches another scoreless inning

[ORS]

Through 4 vs. Syracuse

 

1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K -- 44 pitches

 

through 5

 

3 H, 1 R, 1 BB, 1K -- 65 pitches

 

EDIT: Evening over. Mmm'bop comes in and tosses a perfect 6th, no K's though.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Lesters final line: 5.0 IP, 3 hits, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

[ORS]

Tonight vs. the Clippers

 

5 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 6 K, 79 pitches

[Rdsxmbnt]

Nice outing