Tick tock for Coco Crisp

[ksushi]

I've never been a huge fan of Coco( well his batting skills anyway). I have backed him on his D tho. He's played a Gold Glove caliber D this season in CF. If he starts to hit like he did in Cleveland and pre injur 06 this can only be considered a bonus and I will enjoy it.

.

 

Before this season Coco was getting the pass because of the finger injury and was expected to hit. He was well known as a guy who could hit around .300 and be a good baserunner. His D, going all the way back to cleveland was terrible in CF and passable in left. He took awful routes, got bad jumps, and had a horrible arm. Until now he has been a liability in the outfield. I don't know where the turn around came from, maybe he took that highlight reel time he got last season and built some confidence out of that and began working on his routes, but he is a totally different player in the outfield this year than he was last year.

[a700hitter]

I've never been a huge fan of Coco( well his batting skills anyway). I have backed him on his D tho. He's played a Gold Glove caliber D this season in CF.

He has one of the worst OF arms in baseball if not the worst. He makes Damon look good. As far as his fly catching ability, I know that he makes some spectacular catches, but what you don't see on TV is that he doesn't get the jump on balls like the top CFs. His bad jumps are neutralized by his great speed. If he got good jumps, I would agree that he is a top fly catcher.

[Rdsxmbnt]

He has one of the worst OF arms in baseball if not the worst. He makes Damon look good. As far as his fly catching ability' date=' I know that he makes some spectacular catches, but what you don't see on TV is that he doesn't get the jump on balls like the top CFs. His bad jumps are neutralized by his great speed. If he got good jumps, I would agree that he is a top fly catcher.[/quote']

 

Do you have any proof that hes getting bad jumps? That was probaly the case last year, but hes flawless out there in CF, he doesnt make mistakes and has as good of range as anyone.

[SCM33]

no question' date=' we trade Coco. id be shocked if Coco sustained an average above .275 at the end of the season[/quote']

 

If he is playing well, and starts to play the way we envisioned him to play....why would we trade him? Keep in mind that most likely.....Manny Ramirez will eventually walk away from this team, and Coco is under 30 years old.

[Anuj09]

We would have a nice defensive outfield with Ellsbury and Crisp in Cf and Lf

[SCM33]

Exactly. The trade makes sense if we are dumping him and someone else values him more than we do. If he hits the way he did in Cleveland......why would we trade that away? If he hits the way he did in Cleveland, then thats the whole reason we got him in the first place.

[Anuj09]

Yeah. I mean he was a 15 -20 hr guy in Cleveland right? I really am not sure how we are going to land a Miguel Cabrera through FA. And we have no OF prospects who are even close to coming up to the show. So unless we trade Manny here is my logical OF :

 

RF - Drew

CF - Ellsbury

LF - Crisp

[Cocos Disciples]

Nevermind.

[a700hitter]

Do you have any proof that hes getting bad jumps? That was probaly the case last year' date=' but hes flawless out there in CF, he doesnt make mistakes and has as good of range as anyone.[/quote']Proof? Do you want a stat or source? I will admit that I haven't seen him in person this year since April, but I watched him for a week in ST this year and saw him a lot last year. It's my observation, and I have watched a lot of baseball in 40 years of going to games, that he doesn't get great jumps on balls. He doesn't get terrible jumps most of the time, but he doesn't get great jumps. He does have speed to make up for the jumps, but guys like Paul Blair and other top fielding CFs have speed and get great jumps. Also, he has a lot of trouble in day games with the sun.

[ORS]

He's been an asset this year defensively. He's 5th in MLB in adjusted ZR for CF. He's at +12 runs above average by FRAA for CF. He isn't, however, better than Ellsbury in the field. He also won't hit enough to hold down LF. Not for Boston. With Fenway having such a little LF, they need to put the biggest, scariest bat they can find that will play adequate D. He doesn't have the arm for RF. The best thing to do with him if he starts hitting is trade either him or Ellsbury while both of their values are high.

[a700hitter]

He's been an asset this year defensively. He's 5th in MLB in adjusted ZR for CF. He's at +12 runs above average by FRAA for CF. He isn't' date=' however, better than Ellsbury in the field. He also won't hit enough to hold down LF. Not for Boston. With Fenway having such a little LF, they need to put the biggest, scariest bat they can find that will play adequate D. He doesn't have the arm for RF. The best thing to do with him if he starts hitting is trade either him or Ellsbury while both of their values are high.[/quote']

I don't know how Zone Ratings are calculate, but if Crisp has a good ZR it is a function of his speed not his jumps. He doesn't react very quickly after contact. I don't think there is anyway to measure that.

[ORS]

I don't know how Zone Ratings are calculate' date=' but if Crisp has a good ZR it is a function of his speed not his jumps. He doesn't react very quickly after contact. I don't think there is anyway to measure that.[/quote']

There isn't, but do you care? As long as the ball finds leather, I'm happy.

 

By TV observation, he appears to have improved from last year, but that's no good measure. However, in pretty much every statistical measure he was horrible relative to his peers. He didn't get faster, so his reactions/routes must have improved to be where he is now.

[a700hitter]

There isn't, but do you care? As long as the ball finds leather, I'm happy.

 

By TV observation, he appears to have improved from last year, but that's no good measure. However, in pretty much every statistical measure he was horrible relative to his peers. He didn't get faster, so his reactions/routes must have improved to be where he is now.

His statistical improvement could be a result of improved positioning before the pitch. I am not saying that he is not a good fielder. I am happy with his fielding. I am just saying that he is not a GG contender because A. he has a terrible arm and B. he doesn't get a good jump on the ball.

[ksushi]

Proof? Do you want a stat or source? I will admit that I haven't seen him in person this year since April' date=' but I watched him for a week in ST this year and saw him a lot last year. It's my observation, and I have watched a lot of baseball in 40 years of going to games, that he doesn't get great jumps on balls. He doesn't get terrible jumps most of the time, but he doesn't get great jumps. He does have speed to make up for the jumps, but guys like Paul Blair and other top fielding CFs have speed and get great jumps. Also, he has a lot of trouble in day games with the sun.[/quote']

 

I know he used to get bad jumps, and I know he has been bad in the past but his defense has vastly improved. I watched him recently and he looks like he gets good reads off the bat and takes better routes. He is having a year that statistically (D stats suck but hey its all we got) is on pace to be better than any year Andruw Jones has ever had in his career.

[Mr Crunchy]

crisp is playing well and recently as a leadoff hitter has produced offensively

he has no arm

he runs like a thompsons gazelle and can cover a lot of ground in that cavernous triangle

hes an asset with the glove

a liability with the arm and bat