Is the Grace Period Over?

[riverside sluggers]

Manny' date=' a 10 game improvement? To a mid 90 win team? I had the sox pegged as a 90 win team with a swing of 5 in the + direction and 10 in the minus prior to Paps being moved back to closer. I think Paps swing still has me thinking the sox are a 90 win team, but now with a +/- 5 margin rather than a +5 -10 margin. Paps will help secure the games they should win. But they still are in one hell of a division with 2 other teams that improved as well.[/quote']

 

So basically youre not expecting them to contend?

[TheKilo]

This front office has been in charge during a time where the Red Sox were more successful than any in my lifetime. They spend absurd amounts of money and bring in players that we will tune in day in and day out to watch. Between the weird personalities of the ownership group to the hype around Theo Epstein, it is all stuff that is currently adding to the Red Sox mystique.

 

Personally, I think it is absurd to put all the blame on the FO when players get injured or when they give up a HR in the 7th game of an ALCS. Not that anyone was on them for Boone, but often seasons ride on one pitch or one at bat and that has certainly been the case for the past few years.

 

On the field and off the Sox are one of the top 3 teams in baseball. They are interesting and very talented and part of that is the FO and their use of consultants like Bill James. All of this stuff has been fascinating and entertaining to watch the past few years and I hope it will continue.

 

Then how much credit can you give them for the win in '04?

[RedSoxRooter]

All of it idiot.

[jacksonianmarch]

So basically youre not expecting them to contend?

 

RS, 90 wins is contention. With a +/- 5 win margin, they will certainly contend. They are always in the race come August 1st. Their problem is hanging onto that title into October. In 03 and 04 they made a late charge after dropping like flies in july. 05 they collapsed very late. 06 they collapsed at the trade deadline. Regardless, the sox are always good for 4 months of exciting, ass on edge of seat baseball.

[riverside sluggers]

90 wins in the AL is goodbye October, in the NL... it means division title. If they play their cards right Ive got them down for the 92-95 range. That of course if the rotation stays on their feet, bullpen isnt worked a lot & finds nice surprises, and the offense remains one of the top 5 in baseball

[jacksonianmarch]

90 wins in the AL is goodbye October' date=' in the NL... it means division title. If they play their cards right Ive got them down for the 92-95 range. That of course if the rotation stays on their feet, bullpen isnt worked a lot & finds nice surprises, and the offense remains one of the top 5 in baseball[/quote']

 

92-95 is certainly in my range. My range is 85-95.

[TheKilo]

All of it idiot.

 

This best be sarcasm.

 

Let me rephrase.

 

How much credit can you give the FO for the players winning in '04.?

[example1]

Then how much credit can you give them for the win in '04?

 

Given that the FO signed both David Ortiz (who won 3 critical playoff games), signed Keith Foulke (who could have been the Sox playoff MVP) and traded for Dave Roberts who was the ONLY one who single-handedly saved the season.

 

They continued the quest to make the team competitive and to give them the chance to win. When you have the chance to win, whether its hockey, basketball or baseball it almost always comes down to a game of inches.

[RedSoxRooter]

All of it idiot. (no sarcasm you tool)

[TheKilo]

Given that the FO signed both David Ortiz (who won 3 critical playoff games), signed Keith Foulke (who could have been the Sox playoff MVP) and traded for Dave Roberts who was the ONLY one who single-handedly saved the season.

 

They continued the quest to make the team competitive and to give them the chance to win. When you have the chance to win, whether its hockey, basketball or baseball it almost always comes down to a game of inches.

 

 

So what you say is don't blame the FO when the players don't perform, and give them all the credit when the players win?

 

RSR, suck a dick.

[Mr Crunchy]

ex-1

all you say has merit and truth but dont sell duquettes moves short as we applaud theos success

fact is the core was in place when henry et al bought in

manny petey tek lowe wake etc..

im aware of theos moves but if you recall it was jeremy giambi we signed to play 1st base and be our key lefty bat,ortiz wasnt in the lineup every day till mid may or early june ?

anyways

duke had to answer to john harrington who was the owners mouthpiece in negotiations

he was a bloodless business man who inherited the team for the yawkey trust

duke didnt have the final say or an owner who would go the extra mile

he was an aloof ********** whos people skills were just absent but he did indeed put the wheels of 04 into place

 

where i find fault in this f/o is their lack of consistancy when it comes to spending,who they spend it on and who they dont spend it on..i also took major major issue with the dumping of arroyo and their laid back attitude last summer when we were decimated with injury yet still in the hunt...

they laid back and surrendered rather than attempt to acquire help

they then said something to the effect of ""we cant compete year in and out with them""

ok i bought it against my better judgement and as we know now it was a spin which was completely full of s***

this offseason was an eye opening mind numbing whirl wind of incredible contracts given out to people that as far as im concerned have question marks and a lot to live up to

 

as far as their recent post season success goes since ..95?? i guess

just remember that for 90 years you had to come in first to get into the post season

no wild card no playoffs no ring without winning the division or before 69 the league pennant

i love the wild card because more teams are in it later into the season but the fact is we would be suicidal having been behind ny 11 years running with no wild card to fall back on

 

its hard to bitch when the bottom line of winning is all i care about

i just think they could do some things better and reduce some of the micro managing that i think occurs every october when the season ends

[TheKilo]

Bump.

 

Terry Francona on NESN - "We'd like to win the division, but the goal is to win the World Series."

 

Terry, if you lose the division, you damn well better f***ing win the World Series, or your ass should be fired.

 

I love the strategy. Guess Theo and Co. got tired of winning division titles and decided to coast into the playoffs this year.

 

Great work.

[stcjones]

Bump.

 

Terry Francona on NESN - "We'd like to win the division, but the goal is to win the World Series."

 

Terry, if you lose the division, you damn well better f***ing win the World Series, or your ass should be fired.

 

I love the strategy. Guess Theo and Co. got tired of winning division titles and decided to coast into the playoffs this year.

 

Great work.

 

You are correct.....this collapse is worse than ANY in RS history......especially because so many losses occurred because of COACHING errors (like last night with FranCOMA leaving Gagme in there to hang himself last night. IF TITO does not win the World Series....HE MUST BE FIRED......If I hear ONE more press conference after the game where one of our pitchers gets friggin shelled.....and Tito is sitting there up there in a cheerleader skirt and pom poms saying "He pitched really well tonight....had good stuff....caught a few bad breaks and it just didn't go our way"......I am going to PUKE!!!!! I think Tito needs to go.....nice guy ....real nice guy......but you know what they say about nice guys (with exception of 2004).........

[jacksonianmarch]

he wont be fired, he is the perfect FO puppet.

[riverside sluggers]

If he was, his contract wouldve been extended. Managers in his state (signed through only next season) are speculated to be on the hot seat

[Taliesin]

he wont be fired' date=' he is the perfect FO puppet.[/quote']

 

That's it Carbo. Enough. Shouldn't you be off pretending to save lives or something? MJ...it may not be apparant to you after 4 f***ING YEARS because you are so obtuse but pissing off the members because of abject arrogance and sheer stupidity isn't necessarily one of your finer qualities. Not to mention clearly you've been shunned by your dumbass mfy brethren and are so hypocritical and wishy-washy w/ your opinions that a run for office should be in your future. And also...your rotoworld/webmd copying self couldn't quite translate that into not losing by 500 games in fantasy. It's callled emotional intelligence. Learn it. Now, go off and f*** the fake wife you've had for the past four years. Like in SIMs but with more reality.

 

Jaba rulz...yeah. I know many a Doctor who would use that terminology and I've refrained often tonight w/ your s***.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's it Carbo. Enough. Shouldn't you be off pretending to save lives or something? MJ...it may not be apparant to you after 4 f***ING YEARS because you are so obtuse but pissing off the members because of abject arrogance and sheer stupidity isn't necessarily one of your finer qualities. Not to mention clearly you've been shunned by your dumbass mfy brethren and are so hypocritical and wishy-washy w/ your opinions that a run for office should be in your future. And also...your rotoworld/webmd copying self couldn't quite translate that into not losing by 500 games in fantasy. It's callled emotional intelligence. Learn it. Now, go off and f*** the fake wife you've had for the past four years. Like in SIMs but with more reality.

 

Jaba rulz...yeah. I know many a Doctor who would use that terminology and I've refrained often tonight w/ your s***.

 

GFY talies. Just because you are pissed off doesnt mean I need to watch my step. And I dont need to prove myself to you talies, enjoy what is coming to you.

[jacksonianmarch]

and the quotes about Joba were more to mock how far the thread had gone. Maybe if you had a bit more understanding and intelligence, you would have noticed that. Try to keep up. BTW, nothing more cowardly than the hit and run. Please come back when you are mad again, what do you call this forum again? Shall we go there?

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

Theo should at least be talked about being fired if we go one and out. The only reason he shouldn't is because his tremendous work rebuilding the farm system. This team is an extremely, extremely mediocre offensive team right row and that's Theo's fault.

[Taliesin]

and the quotes about Joba were more to mock how far the thread had gone. Maybe if you had a bit more understanding and intelligence' date=' you would have noticed that. Try to keep up. BTW, nothing more cowardly than the hit and run. Please come back when you are mad again, what do you call this forum again? Shall we go there?[/quote']

 

You want to test my intelligence MJ. Hit and run? Go. Don't f*** w/ me ya prick. Try to keep up? Ok...I'll do my best.

[Taliesin]

AH..screw it. I'm just busting balls. I actually have a life.

[TheKilo]

Theo should at least be talked about being fired if we go one and out. The only reason he shouldn't is because his tremendous work rebuilding the farm system. This team is an extremely' date=' extremely mediocre offensive team right row and that's Theo's fault.[/quote']

 

Solution - make Theo head of player development, or scouting, or something.

 

His analysis of ML talent has been mediocre at best.

[jacksonianmarch]

AH..screw it. I'm just busting balls. I actually have a life.

 

I'm just bustin balls too talies. Giving back what is comin my way, no hard feelings.

[BoSox21]

Solution - make Theo head of player development, or scouting, or something.

 

His analysis of ML talent has been mediocre at best.

 

There's no way he'd remain with the organization if he was asked to take a lower-level position

[TheKilo]

There's no way he'd remain with the organization if he was asked to take a lower-level position

 

Probably not, but you never know.

 

Hire an assistant to help him with ML talent. Something.

[Khan]

Maybe we can make some use of him as one of the guys who cleans Fenway after the games with a leaf blower?

[TheKilo]

John W. Henry:

 

“We sought to reduce the financial gap and succeeded to a degree. Now with a new stadium filled with revenue opportunities, they have leaped away from us again. So we have to be even more careful in deploying our resources.”

 

Theo Epstein:

 

"These days, if you're not getting younger and more dynamic, you're probably falling behind."

 

Can't wait for season 3 of Sox Appeal!!!!

[Dojji]

Should have, should have, should have. Good god people.

 

This is a team that has missed the playoffs exactly once since Theo Epstein got here. Remember where we were before that during the height of the Yqankee dynasty and appreciate what we have here. If you want a GM with a 1.000 AVG I'm with you and we should hire him as soon as you find one. Well, what are you waiting for?

 

For all he's done or hasn't done that you, personally, disagree with this is a GM that has taken a disgraced team that hadn't done anything meaningful since 1995 and got them into the playoffs in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2008 and won the World Series twice. That's a damn good run no matter what else he's done or will ever do.

 

We're talking about the most dominant stretch of Red Sox baseball since 1918 and dissing the GM that got us there. I mean come on people!

 

IMHO Theo Epstein's grace period is renewed every time the Sox go deep into the playoffs. It is DANG HARD to win back to back world series, and the Sox are a David Price pitch 18 inches outside the strike zone for called strike 3 in the 8th inningof ALCS Game 7 from accomplishing exactly that. It was the most effective title defense since 2000, which is an accomplishment itself working with a team that had an extra month of baseball just the year before.

[BSN07]

Dojji, the voice of reason LOL

[Dojji]

Hey, a broken watch is right twice a day.

 

Of course it helps thjat I think the team is ready to contend right out of the box with minimal changes.