Papelbon is the closer according ESPN

[EvilDonut]

He stated

 

I should know, I did it after 26 in the Marine Corps. Muscles can be trained at just about any age

 

You stated

 

#2 Trying to use that you were a marine to support your argument about Papelbon which is of course irrelevant.

 

You lose

 

 

EDIT: Sorry, didnt see your post yezir.

[RobZombie]

I've never seen paps velocity dip below 90 ever and I watch him a lot. I go out of my way to watch a lot of baseball, and read a lot of reports and I've never read anything but praise of Papelbons fastball. He would have been a fine starter, I think if he stays healthy, he is a HOF caliber reliever. I think as a starter he'd still be very good, but not as beastly. He never would have fallen on his face.

 

 

I don't think he'd fall on his face either. I just think he'd be avearge. I have read reports that Papelbon's fastball is excellent, but tends to wane as time goes on. This spring, his fastball would start at 93-94 and end up in the mid 80s. This kind of dip in velocity is disturbing for any pitcher no matter his background. A dip in velocity can often indicate that something is terribly wrong physically and may have been part of the reason why Papelbon said he wanted to be the closer again. I'm not sure this is normal for a reliever going to the rotation as it didn't happen to Smoltz or Lowe I don't think.

 

During his starts in Boston he'd start out with a fastball around 95 and would end up around 90-91 or so as his pitch count ran up. From a personal observation it seems to me that this guy gives it everything he has when he hits the mid 90s. He's not throwing mid 90s free and easy. To me that's a reliever.

 

Remeber too that a loss of velocity would make his splitter less effective.

 

I'll take the power guy for one inning four times a week over the finnesse pitcher for 6 innings a week.

[RobZombie]

Hmmm...

 

 

 

Hypocitical grade A *******. Dude get a life, he served so your lazy over sensitive ass didn't have to. So he called you a few names, big deal. Get over it, its the internet. But trashing ANYONE who served, is BEYOND wrong. You are a loser. :thumbdown :banned:

 

I don't believe he really did serve period. I think he's just saying...I'm a marine so I am right. Doesn't make it so.

[ORS]

Holy crap, is that one convoluted assumption.

 

I mentioned my service in passing because it just happened to be what I was doing when I was 26 years old and training for a deployment. It wasn't part of my argument, and you could replace it with any job requiring physical fitness and my point is unchanged.

 

This is funny.

[CrespoBlows]

I don't believe he really did serve period. I think he's just saying...I'm a marine so I am right. Doesn't make it so.

 

:banned:

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a lot of respect for those who serve. If a guy says he served, then you give him some props. Even if you think he is s***ing you, the thing is, if you are wrong, then you are spitting on a man who put his life on the line for you. No matter how much s*** ORS gives any of us, remember that he put his life on the line. You crossed a rough bridge IMO.

[TheKilo]

I have a lot of respect for those who serve. If a guy says he served' date=' then you give him some props. Even if you think he is s***ing you, the thing is, if you are wrong, then you are spitting on a man who put his life on the line for you. No matter how much s*** ORS gives any of us, remember that he put his life on the line. You crossed a rough bridge IMO.[/quote']

 

I remember when you called Jsinger a traitor. Fun times.

[jacksonianmarch]

I remember when you called Jsinger a traitor. Fun times.

 

I dont necessarily think this country's leadership has its head on straight, but the people who answer the bell when the country calls should be given our utmost reverence. I dont like our soldiers being degraded for the ineptitude of our government. Either way, that is done, lets give RZ a chance to recant.

[yagmaster]

Hey guys, it's been a while but I decided to come back and give my opinion on this issue. There has been so much press about the factors in Papelbon's sudden move to the bullpen, be it his own desires, the team's necessity, and what have you. In my opinion, none of this matters. All that matters is that he is now the closer, and how this effects the team. I think there are several factors that need to be considered when looking at this move.

 

The first and most obvious, is how Papelbon will perform compared to how he would have performed as a starter. You can look at this in two different ways, as a scout and as a stathead. Being a Baseball Prospectus subscriber, I have been following his PECOTA projections recently. As a starter, he would have been projected to have an ERA of 4.03 and win 10 games. As a reliever, PECOTA projects him to shave off almost exactly a point to 3.04. This is because, as a general rule, relievers don't usually translate to great starters. I think that stats show that he will be an ace reliever, but maybe not have a future as an ace starter.

 

When you look at Papelbon from scout's perspective, you see two great pitches. Blazing fastball. Dirty splitter. After that, he really doesn't have another major league pitch. Yes, he might be able to improve his curveball, and yes, anyone can learn to throw a decent changeup, but as it is now, Papelbon has ace closer stuff, and middle of the rotation starter stuff. We also don't know how much his stuff will suffer as he gets deeper in the game. To me, we will get most value out of Papelbon being a starter.

 

Another important factor is Papelbon's health. I am by no means an expert, but I have never heard of a reliever being in more jeopardy than a starter until the Papelbon situation. I really have a hard time buying the idea that turning him into a starter will save his arm. That is all I am going to say on this issue.

 

The only factors left to consider are short and long term results the team will have with this move. Many people are calling this a shortsighted blunder; one that will be good for this season but not for the future. I couldn't disagree more. For one thing, PECOTA projected the Red Sox to win 93 games with Paps starting, and it has lowered this projection to 90 with him closing. This can be explained by having Tavarez as our number five starter rather than Paps. So if it's not good in the short run, why the hell would we do it?

 

Here's the reason. Having watched Jon Lester pitch last season, I think he has ace material. If he can comeback from the cancer treatment, which supposedly went as well as it could have, and he can improve his command (he's 23 for crying out loud), I think he will be hurling quality starts for the Sox by at the latest. If Papelbon were starting, we would be down an ace reliever and also would have two many starting pitchers.

 

What I think lots of people are forgetting is that Papelbon is 26. He still has 10+ years as a major league pitcher, hopefully closer to 15. If Hansen becomes the reliever that everyone thought he would, it is not impossible for Paps to go back to the rotation again.

 

Also, in his ROOKIE year, he had one of the best seasons a closer has EVER had. If he even approaches those numbers over the next decade (hopefully as a Red Sox), he will be sure bet for the Hall Of Fame. I really think people need to stop complaining about the move and be happy that we get to watch Papelbon more than every five days.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

No matter how much s*** ORS gives any of us' date=' remember that he put his life on the line. You crossed a rough bridge IMO.[/quote']

 

Yea...that's what I'm saying. That's not to say you can't disagree with him. Tell him you think he's a f***ing idiot if you want to...but to question his service and what not is just screwed up. I think I speak for ORS when I say that his knowledge and baseball opinions are fair game if they differ from yours...but some s*** you just don't touch, IMO.

[EvilDonut]

I don't believe he really did serve period. I think he's just saying...I'm a marine so I am right. Doesn't make it so.

 

So your saying ORS has been acting as a Marine so he could use it against people in arguments about Papelbon. Of what i know of him, which is extremely little i'll admit, he doesnt seem like the kind of man to say "hey look at me, I'm a Marine, wooooo". He seems a modest smart ass who loves baseball, and knows his s***.

 

He used what he knew, which was a result of being a Marine, to help in his argument against you. And the general idea of debating concludes that when you result to personal attacks, you've lost.

 

So again, You lose.

[yeszir]

Hey guys, it's been a while but I decided to come back and give my opinion on this issue. There has been so much press about the factors in Papelbon's sudden move to the bullpen, be it his own desires, the team's necessity, and what have you. In my opinion, none of this matters. All that matters is that he is now the closer, and how this effects the team. I think there are several factors that need to be considered when looking at this move.

 

The first and most obvious, is how Papelbon will perform compared to how he would have performed as a starter. You can look at this in two different ways, as a scout and as a stathead. Being a Baseball Prospectus subscriber, I have been following his PECOTA projections recently. As a starter, he would have been projected to have an ERA of 4.03 and win 10 games. As a reliever, PECOTA projects him to shave off almost exactly a point to 3.04. This is because, as a general rule, relievers don't usually translate to great starters. I think that stats show that he will be an ace reliever, but maybe not have a future as an ace starter.

 

When you look at Papelbon from scout's perspective, you see two great pitches. Blazing fastball. Dirty splitter. After that, he really doesn't have another major league pitch. Yes, he might be able to improve his curveball, and yes, anyone can learn to throw a decent changeup, but as it is now, Papelbon has ace closer stuff, and middle of the rotation starter stuff. We also don't know how much his stuff will suffer as he gets deeper in the game. To me, we will get most value out of Papelbon being a starter.

 

Another important factor is Papelbon's health. I am by no means an expert, but I have never heard of a reliever being in more jeopardy than a starter until the Papelbon situation. I really have a hard time buying the idea that turning him into a starter will save his arm. That is all I am going to say on this issue.

 

The only factors left to consider are short and long term results the team will have with this move. Many people are calling this a shortsighted blunder; one that will be good for this season but not for the future. I couldn't disagree more. For one thing, PECOTA projected the Red Sox to win 93 games with Paps starting, and it has lowered this projection to 90 with him closing. This can be explained by having Tavarez as our number five starter rather than Paps. So if it's not good in the short run, why the hell would we do it?

 

Here's the reason. Having watched Jon Lester pitch last season, I think he has ace material. If he can comeback from the cancer treatment, which supposedly went as well as it could have, and he can improve his command (he's 23 for crying out loud), I think he will be hurling quality starts for the Sox by at the latest. If Papelbon were starting, we would be down an ace reliever and also would have two many starting pitchers.

 

What I think lots of people are forgetting is that Papelbon is 26. He still has 10+ years as a major league pitcher, hopefully closer to 15. If Hansen becomes the reliever that everyone thought he would, it is not impossible for Paps to go back to the rotation again.

 

Also, in his ROOKIE year, he had one of the best seasons a closer has EVER had. If he even approaches those numbers over the next decade (hopefully as a Red Sox), he will be sure bet for the Hall Of Fame. I really think people need to stop complaining about the move and be happy that we get to watch Papelbon more than every five days.

 

:blink: What's up dude.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pecota blows.

[yagmaster]

Pecota blows.

 

Actually, it is the most accurate predicting scheme is the business. Just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it "blows". Obviously, it's not going to predict exactly what every player is going to do every season, but what it does do is give a very good baseline as to what to expect from a player, such as expecting Papelbon to be more effective as a closer than as a starter.

[jacksonianmarch]

Let me recant and say PECOTA blows when it comes to players who are either declining or improving. PECOTA is only good for players who have been around for awhile and are still in their prime. And I do know how it works bro. I can read.

[ORS]

I think an experienced baseball fan, predicting without bias, is every bit as accurate as PECOTA, or ZiPS, or the Marcels, or PrOPS. How often do w go into the year saying, so and so is projected to do this and it is way off, in either direction. I'm all about statistical analysis, and I think trends in numbers are important, but the projection systems hold little value to me.

[jacksonianmarch]

agreed.

[yagmaster]

Because I don't want to start ANOTHER fight in this thread, and because I respect both of your baseball knowledge, I'm going to leave it at that. I might start a thread about it later if I get antsy.

[Gom]

No, it isn't stating the obvious. It just feels like that to you because it is your opinion.

 

Since you seem to think it a ploy, then connect the dots. What was the motive for that amount of disinformation?

 

Simple. There was little doubt outside of Boston that Papelbon would blow his shoulder wide open. His velocity dropped dramatically after 2-3 innings, and there really is only one reason, his shoulder sublaxation. The only reason was that the Sox thought the best chance of winning the World Series was a dominant starting rotation. At least they got that right.

 

The Red Sox FO had to come out and say that it was better (sic) for Papelbon if he moved to the rotation. That proper rest would be the best thing for his shoulder. You guys fell for it.

 

Now think about this for just one second. The kid is a special talent. He has been hit with the injury bug, but if his shoulder stays steady, he can be something special. Hell, he is something special right now.

 

With that in mind...if starting was SO MUCH BETTER for him than relieving....(que the dramatic music here)

 

WHY PUT HIM BACK IN THE BULLPEN WHICH ACCORDING TO THEIR EXPERTS WAS THE HIGHEST RISK OF RE-INJURING HIS SHOULDER?

 

Because he wanted to relieve? ********. You think the Red Sox are that blase about their team, let players dictate how to play, when, and what role? No way in hell.

 

You think the Red Sox FO would willingly risk a phenom with a subject shoulder in order to possibly win a division or make the wild card? Absolutely. Especially one that is already injured, and probably doesn't have much of a shelf life. It's the nature of the business. Do you really believe that with the depth that the Red Sox have in the farm system, and with the money that they have, that they couldn't swing a deal for a serviceable reliever? Which is more valued, an ace reliever or an ace starting pitcher? Last I checked, you won your only World Series since 1918 with a closer, that going into the post-season, wasn't all that heralded. Do I think the Red Sox would risk him as a starting pitcher? Absolutely. Do I believe that the Sox would risk him as a reliever. No way in hell. Why on earth would you ever risk injury for a player, especially a special talent like Papelbon, by playing him less? I can't believe some of you actually believed this. A starting rotation that is dominant, and one that would have Schilling, Matsuzaka, Papelbon, and Beckett has enormous potential. Look at Rivera last post-season. He didn't do s***, because the Yankees were blown out. The best pitcher on the team didn't really play.

 

His velocity went down after 3 innings? Why? Sublaxated shoulder. So it is obvious that that is the stress his body can take in one appearance. If he has the strongest shoulder in camp, you guys will be looking up at Tampa Bay this year. The only way this kid can be effective and healthy is this: 1 inning maximum, never back to back days. Just like Eckersley. Last I heard, he did ok in that roll. Why would the kid "volunteer" to make less pay, have less of a legacy [most-likely] and pitch less. That would be detrimental to him and his team. Unless...wait a minute....he can't. That the only real way he can help this team is stay on the field, and not on the disabled list, and that the best way to do that was to keep his work load low like it is for all relievers compared to starting pitchers [with the exception of anyone in a Torre-managed middle relief core].

 

Or is it more likely that either the specialists they spoke of were either (a) lying, as they were paid by the Sox in the first place ( incompetent fools who realized the error of their ways [ironically, the fools were the so-called experts in physiology you have servicing the Red Sox]

 

As they have for the 86 year drought, the front office pulled the wool over the eyes of Red Sox nation. The Red Sox realized that there was NO WAY a sublaxated shoulder could withstand THREE to FOUR times the workload and get BETTER. There's one born ever minute. ORS, here's your sign.

[RobZombie]

I have a lot of respect for those who serve. If a guy says he served' date=' then you give him some props. Even if you think he is s***ing you, the thing is, if you are wrong, then you are spitting on a man who put his life on the line for you. No matter how much s*** ORS gives any of us, remember that he put his life on the line. You crossed a rough bridge IMO.[/quote']

 

This has ZERO to do with Papelbon but I have absolutely no respect for anyone who voluntarily joined the U.S. Military in the past 50 years. Its not appropriate for me to explain why in this thread but if there is an off-topic section you can go there or the moderators can move it there and I'd be happy to do so...and everyone who thinks that people in the military are heroes can call me all the names they want.

 

By the way...I do find this idea that a member of the military, put his life on the line FOR ME to be a little ridiculous as well as the idea that you are suddenly a noble person because you joined the military. But again, I'll elaborate if you want in another thread.

[ORS]

Simple. There was little doubt outside of Boston that Papelbon would blow his shoulder wide open. His velocity dropped dramatically after 2-3 innings, and there really is only one reason, his shoulder sublaxation. The only reason was that the Sox thought the best chance of winning the World Series was a dominant starting rotation. At least they got that right.

 

The Red Sox FO had to come out and say that it was better (sic) for Papelbon if he moved to the rotation. That proper rest would be the best thing for his shoulder. You guys fell for it.

 

Now think about this for just one second. The kid is a special talent. He has been hit with the injury bug, but if his shoulder stays steady, he can be something special. Hell, he is something special right now.

 

With that in mind...if starting was SO MUCH BETTER for him than relieving....(que the dramatic music here)

 

WHY PUT HIM BACK IN THE BULLPEN WHICH ACCORDING TO THEIR EXPERTS WAS THE HIGHEST RISK OF RE-INJURING HIS SHOULDER?

 

Because he wanted to relieve? ********. You think the Red Sox are that blase about their team, let players dictate how to play, when, and what role? No way in hell.

 

You think the Red Sox FO would willingly risk the best pitcher to come up with that team since Roger Clemens in order to possibly win a division or make the wild card? Absolutely. Especially one that is already injured, and probably doesn't have much of a shelf life. It's the nature of the business. Do you really believe that with the depth that the Red Sox have in the farm system, and with the money that they have, that they couldn't swing a deal for a serviceable reliever? Which is more valued, an ace reliever or an ace starting pitcher? Last I checked, you won your only World Series since 1918 with a closer, that going into the post-season, wasn't all that heralded. Do I think the Red Sox would risk him as a starting pitcher? Absolutely. Do I believe that the Sox would risk him as a reliever. No way in hell. Why on earth would you ever risk injury for a player, especially a special talent like Papelbon, by playing him less? I can't believe some of you actually believed this. A starting rotation that is dominant, and one that would have Schilling, Matsuzaka, Papelbon, and Beckett has enormous potential. Look at Rivera last post-season. He didn't do s***, because the Yankees were blown out. The best pitcher on the team didn't really play.

 

His velocity went down after 3 innings? Why? Sublaxated shoulder. So it is obvious that that is the stress his body can take in one appearance. If he has the strongest shoulder in camp, you guys will be looking up at Tampa Bay this year. The only way this kid can be effective and healthy is this: 1 inning maximum, never back to back days. Just like Eckersley. Last I heard, he did ok in that roll.

 

Or is it more likely that either the specialists they spoke of were either (a) lying, as they were paid by the Sox in the first place ( incompetent fools who realized the error of their ways [ironically, the fools were the so-called experts in physiology you have servicing the Red Sox]

 

As they have for the 86 year drought, the front office pulled the wool over the eyes of Red Sox nation. The Red Sox realized that there was NO WAY a sublaxated shoulder could withstand THREE to FOUR times the workload and get BETTER. There's one born ever minute. ORS, here's your sign.

Yeah, it was all in-house cronies supporting the move.

 

Except, of course, for the specialist, no check that, director from the Kerlan-Jobe Orthopedic Institute. He and Will Carroll are not in the Sox pockets or part of their sneaky plan. Nevermind the fact that they concur. Don't forget the tinfoil, Gom.

 

http://www.nbeaujon.com/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

 

This is too easy.

[RobZombie]

Holy crap, is that one convoluted assumption.

 

I mentioned my service in passing because it just happened to be what I was doing when I was 26 years old and training for a deployment. It wasn't part of my argument, and you could replace it with any job requiring physical fitness and my point is unchanged.

 

Which of course has ZERO to do with an professional athlete who's already pretty muscular.

 

There is no way you can expect to be taken seriously when you draw a correlation between someone who goes from doing nothing to doing extreme physical activity and a 6'4" 230 llb strapping athlete who has probably been working out regularly since birth.*

 

And to think that you call this handing me my hat is a little ridiculous.

 

I believe that you were mentioning your service to score some meaningless points with people so everyone would defend your argument because you are noble. You seem to be very interested in scoring points as you seem to be constantly monitoring them. Plus I didn't think that even you were stupid enough to believe that a normal person greatly increasing their physical activity has anything to do with a pro-athlete who's muscles are already pretty well developed.

 

If you were only mentioning it in passing, then perhaps I was giving you too much credit.

 

*PLEASE NOTE, I DID NOT LOOK UP PAPELBON'S EXACT PHYSICAL STATS, SO DON'T GO AROUND POSTING THAT I DON'T KNOW BASEBALL BECAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY 6'2". ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT HE'S PRETTY BIG.

[ORS]

This has ZERO to do with Papelbon but I have absolutely no respect for anyone who voluntarily joined the U.S. Military in the past 50 years. Its not appropriate for me to explain why in this thread but if there is an off-topic section you can go there or the moderators can move it there and I'd be happy to do so...and everyone who thinks that people in the military are heroes can call me all the names they want.

 

By the way...I do find this idea that a member of the military, put his life on the line FOR ME to be a little ridiculous as well as the idea that you are suddenly a noble person because you joined the military. But again, I'll elaborate if you want in another thread.

This is pretty sad. I'm sure it doesn't agree with whatever your preconceived notion is about people who join, but the majority of them accept and embrace the fact that they may have to die for their fellow countrymen. You don't have to agree with that, but if you can't respect and appreciate it, then I don't know how you live with yourself.

[ORS]

Holy crap, is that one convoluted assumption.

 

I mentioned my service in passing because it just happened to be what I was doing when I was 26 years old and training for a deployment. It wasn't part of my argument, and you could replace it with any job requiring physical fitness and my point is unchanged.

 

Which of course has ZERO to do with an professional athlete who's already pretty muscular.

 

There is no way you can expect to be taken seriously when you draw a correlation between someone who goes from doing nothing to doing extreme physical activity and a 6'4" 230 llb strapping athlete who has probably been working out regularly since birth.*

 

And to think that you call this handing me my hat is a little ridiculous.

 

I believe that you were mentioning your service to score some meaningless points with people so everyone would defend your argument because you are noble. You seem to be very interested in scoring points as you seem to be constantly monitoring them. Plus I didn't think that even you were stupid enough to believe that a normal person greatly increasing their physical activity has anything to do with a pro-athlete who's muscles are already pretty well developed.

 

If you were only mentioning it in passing, then perhaps I was giving you too much credit.

 

*PLEASE NOTE, I DID NOT LOOK UP PAPELBON'S EXACT PHYSICAL STATS, SO DON'T GO AROUND POSTING THAT I DON'T KNOW BASEBALL BECAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY 6'2". ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT HE'S PRETTY BIG.

Not that it will matter to you, but your assumptions don't serve you well here. I didn't go from extreme inactivity to extreme activity in my reference. I was 6'2 230 when I was training for that deployment. We ran every day or swam every day, and I worked out at the gym 4 days a week after work. The stamina I was building was for forced marches. We had to complete a 25 mile, full-gear hike as part of the deployment prep, and you can't just wake up one day and do that. You have to train for it. So, we started with easy 6-mi hikes, then 9, then 12, and so on.

 

Swing and a miss, Rob.

 

EDIT: Oh, and pretty much everyone here knows I served. Again, your assumptions about veterans is pretty sickening.

[Gom]

Yeah, it was all in-house cronies supporting the move.

 

Except, of course, for the specialist, no check that, director from the Kerlan-Jobe Orthopedic Institute. He and Will Carroll are not in the Sox pockets or part of their sneaky plan. Nevermind the fact that they concur. Don't forget the tinfoil, Gom.

 

http://www.nbeaujon.com/images/tinfoil-hat.jpg

 

This is too easy.

 

Holy cow, even in light of everything I said, you still don't get it. Glad you weren't on the Titanic.

 

Ok, genius, answer this then. If it is so much better for him health-wise to start rather than relieve, why is he back in the pen?

 

This, I can't wait to hear.

[ORS]

It's kind of simple, Gom. He strengthened his shoulder to an extent that the medical personnel of the team think that with a defined usage pattern the risk is reduced. If that didn't happen, he'd still be starting.

 

I get what you are saying. I understand your reasoning, but I don't agree with it. Especially in light of the fact that the head of a renowned orthopedic institute concurs with their assessment of the situation.

[a700hitter]

...I have absolutely no respect for anyone who voluntarily joined the U.S. Military in the past 50 years.

 

.By the way...I do find this idea that a member of the military, put his life on the line FOR ME to be a little ridiculous as well as the idea that you are suddenly a noble person because you joined the military. But again, I'll elaborate if you want in another thread.

But you love living in a country where woman don't get stoned to death for not wearing a head and face covering in public, and where you don't have to worry about being beheaded for practicing your religion or not practicing any religion? If you do, you should be thankful for all the men and women who have served to protect this country. If you think there is no cause worthy enough to put your life on the line, then you have never lived under an oppressive government. You should be thankful for that too.

 

BTW: As far as ORS using his military service to garner support for his baseball opinions, that's simply ridiculous. His baseball knowledge stands on its own. He takes it as good as he gives it out on these boards. He doesn't need anyone's help. Personally, I have disagreed with his opinion about many baseball issues, but the man knows baseball.

[CrespoBlows]

This has ZERO to do with Papelbon but I have absolutely no respect for anyone who voluntarily joined the U.S. Military in the past 50 years. Its not appropriate for me to explain why in this thread but if there is an off-topic section you can go there or the moderators can move it there and I'd be happy to do so...and everyone who thinks that people in the military are heroes can call me all the names they want.

 

By the way...I do find this idea that a member of the military, put his life on the line FOR ME to be a little ridiculous as well as the idea that you are suddenly a noble person because you joined the military. But again, I'll elaborate if you want in another thread.

 

:banned:

[RobZombie]

Not that it will matter to you, but your assumptions don't serve you well here. I didn't go from extreme inactivity to extreme activity in my reference. I was 6'2 230 when I was training for that deployment. We ran every day or swam every day, and I worked out at the gym 4 days a week after work. The stamina I was building was for forced marches. We had to complete a 25 mile, full-gear hike as part of the deployment prep, and you can't just wake up one day and do that. You have to train for it. So, we started with easy 6-mi hikes, then 9, then 12, and so on.

 

Swing and a miss, Rob.

 

EDIT: Oh, and pretty much everyone here knows I served. Again, your assumptions about veterans is pretty sickening.

 

Its not a swing and a miss at all. You increased your activity by a large amount its quite simply not the same as a professional athlete who has been working out daily and preparing pretty much since he was 10. Jonathan Papelbon isn't going to go to boot camp anytime soon. That you think that a marine increasing his activity 10 fold has any relevance to a professional athlete just proves that I was giving you way to much credit in thinking that you were manipulative and not dumb.

 

As far as your other posts go. I'm happy to respond to why I don't agree that you were putting your life on the line for me and why I have ZERO respect for anyone who chose voluntarilly to go and kill people in the name of the flat. But its not relevant to baseball. If there is an off topic thread direct me to it and I'd be happy to tell you why what you did is NOT noble or brave. You've done nothing but enhance my contempt for members of the armed forces if indeed you did serve.

 

Oh yeah....and as for your little edit...if in fact "everyone here knows you served". Its pretty obvious that you bring it up a lot. If you do its seems to me that you are doing so to try to tell people that you are noble and rightious and therefor other posters should respect your opinion even if its complete hogwash. And besides, it doesn't make you any sort of authority on baseball. Call it sickening if you want but I if it walks like a duck and it quacks its a duck.

[ORS]

Its not a swing and a miss at all. You increased your activity by a large amount its quite simply not the same as a professional athlete who has been working out daily and preparing pretty much since he was 10. Jonathan Papelbon isn't going to go to boot camp anytime soon. That you think that a marine increasing his activity 10 fold has any relevance to a professional athlete just proves that I was giving you way to much credit in thinking that you were manipulative and not dumb.

Assumption again. Boot camp didn't get me in shape. I was already in shape at boot camp. I too was an athlete as a teenager, and I continued to work out while working in a physically demanding job up to the point I went to boot camp. I guess I don't get credit for staying fit because I wasn't a professional athlete? I was in excellent physical shape when I trained for that deployment. But, I still needed to train for it. And, the training did improve my stamina for the specific thing I was doing --- at age 26. This started by you saying it was unlikely he'd develop endurance after 26. It happens every day, even with elite athletes. All it takes is a need to do something different. Starting is different than relieving, so he would have to train to become a starter.

 

You've done nothing but enhance my contempt for members of the armed forces if indeed you did serve.

Given the unsolicited information you've shared today, there's no way this is true. Your level of contempt cannot be enhanced. It is absolute.

 

Oh yeah....and as for your little edit...if in fact "everyone here knows you served". Its pretty obvious that you bring it up a lot. If you do its seems to me that you are doing so to try to tell people that you are noble and rightious and therefor other posters should respect your opinion even if its complete hogwash. And besides, it doesn't make you any sort of authority on baseball. Call it sickening if you want but I if it walks like a duck and it quacks its a duck.

There is an off-topic forum, you know? Perhaps non-baseball topics have come up and it was relevant in those topics, so that is where it came up. Once again, you have applied your absolute contempt for the service and made an assumption with it. Like I said, the mentioning of it was a passing comment, and my point would still remain if you replace it with another physcially demanding job. You were the one that fixated on it. Now we know why.