Is Craig hansen Healthy?

[seabeachfred]

hansen is out of the running for closer and perhaps has pitched himself out of the sox lineup based on his horrible spring

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=189625

 

and with all the talk surrounding who will get the job nobody here has mentioned bryce cox who has put up some gaudy #s recently

 

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=189623&srvc=art

 

2 weeks till we begin

roles need to be defined and they need to be defined now

 

Oh, you're panicking Crunch. OK, that was me about a week ago and I caught hell for pushing the "P" button, but I think this week most everyone with any sense has to agree with you starting with me. You know, Sunday would have been a great time to test these defined roles. We had a 2-1 lead over the Orioles going into the bottom of the ninth and it would have been nirvana for all of us had we used one of our closer candidates. So who comes in? A guy named Burns. Oh yes, he did great, one, two, three, but tell me, is HE going to be with us as a possible closer? Thank you!! I sometimes think that Francona acts like he's bloated or something and seemingly thinking he has all the time in the world to make a decision. Starting today against the Twins would be a good time to start putting the pieces together so our bullpen has some idea what their roles are. Tito, time is awasting.

[seabeachfred]

Bryce Cox should not see the majors until Sept at the earliest. He still needs refinement. Especially when you have a kid who had some serious control problems in the past' date=' his repetition of delivery is essential to his well being. And if he is rushed, he may revert to old forms. Let him get comfortable and get his s*** down and see what he can do as a Sept callup.[/quote']

 

"REPETITION OF DELIVERY IS ESSENTIAl"----Absolutely true Jackson and you are most likely right on the mark. Unfortunately for us we are in need of someone who can go in there and blow the ball by someone with an occasional breaking ball thrown in to tie up the hitter's timing. For me, I keep thinking of how the Tigers found gold last season in Rodney and Zumaya and it makes me wonder if we don't have one or two of those in our system since I keep hearing how many hard young throwers we're supposed to have.

 

Of course, Tito doesn't like using young players all that much so I wonder if they would be given a real chance to excel. It is too bad that Hansen has looked so lousy this Spring. There was some hope he would reverse his backpeddling 2006 season. One saving grace is that our bullpen has looked much better the past ten days and maybe Francona now has an idea of who pitches where. Again, though you don't agree with this, I'm firmly convinced that if we get our bullpen straightened out we have as good a chance as anyone in the AL to get to the WS.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[jacksonianmarch]

seabeach, Crunchy doesnt panic. He is stating a fact.

[jacksonianmarch]

"REPETITION OF DELIVERY IS ESSENTIAl"----Absolutely true Jackson and you are most likely right on the mark. Unfortunately for us we are in need of someone who can go in there and blow the ball by someone with an occasional breaking ball thrown in to tie up the hitter's timing. For me, I keep thinking of how the Tigers found gold last season in Rodney and Zumaya and it makes me wonder if we don't have one or two of those in our system since I keep hearing how many hard young throwers we're supposed to have.

 

Of course, Tito doesn't like using young players all that much so I wonder if they would be given a real chance to excel. It is too bad that Hansen has looked so lousy this Spring. There was some hope he would reverse his backpeddling 2006 season. One saving grace is that our bullpen has looked much better the past ten days and maybe Francona now has an idea of who pitches where. Again, though you don't agree with this, I'm firmly convinced that if we get our bullpen straightened out we have as good a chance as anyone in the AL to get to the WS.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

as for Hansen and Cox, if you want to see Hansen part deux, bring up Cox right now.

 

Hansen needs to be kept in AAA all yr. He may be something in the future, but the system f***ed him when he was completely rushed and lost 2 yrs of development. He may benefit from a move to the NL.

[adam123]

I totaly agree with you guys .. Hansen was totally rushed coming up and you can tell hes suffering . Now he ha back trouble .. just send him to AAA for season to get back his stuff

[adam123]

hey does anyone hear anything about bard he had some great stuff

[SuperManny]

I totaly agree with you guys .. Hansen was totally rushed coming up and you can tell hes suffering . Now he ha back trouble .. just send him to AAA for season to get back his stuff

 

So if he pitched in AAA instead of MLB then he wouldn't have back trouble? That makes no sense. He was rushed to the majors because we needed the pitching. The same happened to Lester and he did fine. The same thing happened to Chad Cordero and Houston Street as well. People are rushed sometimes, it doesn't mean that they are messed up for their career. Hansen had a 2.75 ERA in AAA last year. He just needs some more time in AAA and he will be fine. I bet he's up with the big club this year. Everyone is overblowing the problem's Hansen had.

[SuperManny]

hansen is out of the running for closer and perhaps has pitched himself out of the sox lineup based on his horrible spring

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=189625

 

Pitched himself out of the Sox lineup? So he's not going to be hitting cleanup? Just kidding, I didn't think he was going to make the bullpen out of camp anyways with Timiln, Donnelly, Pineiro, Tavarez, Romero, Okajima, and Snyder under contract. I also didn't think MDC would make the opening day roster since both he and Hansen can be sent to AAA while the others can't. With the injury to Timlin though MDC may stick on the roster until he's healthy.

 

and with all the talk surrounding who will get the job nobody here has mentioned bryce cox who has put up some gaudy #s recently

 

I've read that the FO wants one of the young guys like Bryce or Hansen to take over the closers job around the All Star break.

 

2 weeks till we begin

roles need to be defined and they need to be defined now

 

IMO they need to be defined by the start of the season. Last year the role was Foulke as closer but when Papelbon showed he was better he took over.

[seabeachfred]

seabeach' date=' Crunchy doesnt panic. He is stating a fact.[/quote']

 

Jackson, I was kidding Crunch. I said the same thing a week ago and I was accused of panicking. I guess a week can change things. No, this is certainly the time we have to start deciding which of our plethora of candidates is going to be the guy. I don't even want to think of any CBC nonsense. That was such a disastrous failure those first two or three months of the 2003 season.

[seabeachfred]

So if he pitched in AAA instead of MLB then he wouldn't have back trouble? That makes no sense. He was rushed to the majors because we needed the pitching. The same happened to Lester and he did fine. The same thing happened to Chad Cordero and Houston Street as well. People are rushed sometimes' date=' it doesn't mean that they are messed up for their career. Hansen had a 2.75 ERA in AAA last year. He just needs some more time in AAA and he will be fine. I bet he's up with the big club this year. Everyone is overblowing the problem's Hansen had.[/quote']

 

There was one major difference SM. Some joker minor league pitching coach screwed around with Hansen's delivery and release point thinking that his unorthodox method of pitching could goof up his arm. Well it looks like the arm was saved from whatever harm that might accrue, but it certainly didn't to much for his back and it has done even less for his moving fastball and slashing slider, both of which seem to have gone with the wind.

 

He needs a full season in AAA not so much for his back because, as you said, it is going to be a potential problem no matter where he pitches. It should be seasoning so he can regain his confidence and get back that moving fastball and slider he lost when that jerk, whoever he was, couldn't leave well enough alone.

[adam123]

There was one major difference SM. Some joker minor league pitching coach screwed around with Hansen's delivery and release point thinking that his unorthodox method of pitching could goof up his arm. Well it looks like the arm was saved from whatever harm that might accrue, but it certainly didn't to much for his back and it has done even less for his moving fastball and slashing slider, both of which seem to have gone with the wind.

 

He needs a full season in AAA not so much for his back because, as you said, it is going to be a potential problem no matter where he pitches. It should be seasoning so he can regain his confidence and get back that moving fastball and slider he lost when that jerk, whoever he was, couldn't leave well enough alone.

 

Thats what i was trying to say . he need to go back to his roots

[jacksonianmarch]

So if he pitched in AAA instead of MLB then he wouldn't have back trouble? That makes no sense. He was rushed to the majors because we needed the pitching. The same happened to Lester and he did fine. The same thing happened to Chad Cordero and Houston Street as well. People are rushed sometimes' date=' it doesn't mean that they are messed up for their career. Hansen had a 2.75 ERA in AAA last year. He just needs some more time in AAA and he will be fine. I bet he's up with the big club this year. Everyone is overblowing the problem's Hansen had.[/quote']

 

Lester was far from fine. And the two other examples you noted were low pressure scenarios on teams which value development much more than either ALE team does.

[a700hitter]

I'm glad the front office refused to move him in that rumored trade for Helton.

[TheKilo]

I'm glad the front office refused to move him in that rumored trade for Helton.

 

It's not Hansen they were most concerned with. it was Helton's atrocious contract.

[a700hitter]

It's not Hansen they were most concerned with. it was Helton's atrocious contract.

Superstars make a lot of money and the Rockies were willing to pick up a substantial portion of the contract. He's healthy and poised for a comeback year. He's hitting .448 this Spring. He regularly has a .400 OBP. Theo should have pulled the trigger. He would have been shedding $8 million for Lowell and about another $2 or 3 million (not to mention the headaches) for Tavarez. If all he had to throw into the mix was Hansen, he should have pulled the trigger. The bottom of our lineup is not strong at all. Helton in the middle of the order would have made the lineup very formidable.

[ORS]

Yeah, but that particular superstar is making assloads of money until the year 2011, and he's 33 this year. I want this FO to spend coin on good players, but I don't mind a little restraint in regards to making sure they are getting good production for the length of the contract. I don't doubt Helton would live up the the salary this year or next, but the next three would give any reasonable person something to consider.

 

I tend to think the rumors about them picking up substantial portions of his contract may be just that. This was a money issue, and if they were kicking in a good amount, then the deal would have gotten done, or at a minimum there'd be other suitors.

[seabeachfred]

Superstars make a lot of money and the Rockies were willing to pick up a substantial portion of the contract. He's healthy and poised for a comeback year. He's hitting .448 this Spring. He regularly has a .400 OBP. Theo should have pulled the trigger. He would have been shedding $8 million for Lowell and about another $2 or 3 million (not to mention the headaches) for Tavarez. If all he had to throw into the mix was Hansen' date=' he should have pulled the trigger. The bottom of our lineup is not strong at all. Helton in the middle of the order would have made the lineup very formidable.[/quote']

 

Well as my old buddy Kintsman used to say, "that's piss down the porcelin". I only hope Theo doesn't make us all regret he didn't pull the trigger on that trade. It won't hurt if Tek, Crisp and Pedroia do their part this year. If two or three fall through the cracks we had better hope our solid starting pitching can take over and run with the ball.

[seabeachfred]

Yeah, but that particular superstar is making assloads of money until the year 2011, and he's 33 this year. I want this FO to spend coin on good players, but I don't mind a little restraint in regards to making sure they are getting good production for the length of the contract. I don't doubt Helton would live up the the salary this year or next, but the next three would give any reasonable person something to consider.

 

I tend to think the rumors about them picking up substantial portions of his contract may be just that. This was a money issue, and if they were kicking in a good amount, then the deal would have gotten done, or at a minimum there'd be other suitors.

 

Tell me this ORS---Would you like to see Helton in a Yankee uniform? You heard it here first. If Menky doesn't do the job offensively, and he won't, the Yankees will pick up his contract as the trading deadline and we might be in very deep s***. No, I'm not clairvoyant but the Yankees have always liked to cut us off at the pass. Over on Dirt Dogs I told my friends there December a year back that if we didn't resign Damon the Yankees would swoop in and get him. I think they will do the same with Helton.

 

Frankly I don't give a s*** about what might happen to him three years down the road. If he can help us win a World Series or two I say it's worth the stretch, and I don't want to see him in a Yankee jersey. If we could have gotten him and only Hansen or Delcarmen held up the deal then Theo was dumber than hell. I just wonder if we will get another crack at him.

[SuperManny]

Tell me this ORS---Would you like to see Helton in a Yankee uniform? You heard it here first. If Menky doesn't do the job offensively, and he won't, the Yankees will pick up his contract as the trading deadline and we might be in very deep s***. No, I'm not clairvoyant but the Yankees have always liked to cut us off at the pass. Over on Dirt Dogs I told my friends there December a year back that if we didn't resign Damon the Yankees would swoop in and get him. I think they will do the same with Helton.

 

Frankly I don't give a s*** about what might happen to him three years down the road. If he can help us win a World Series or two I say it's worth the stretch, and I don't want to see him in a Yankee jersey. If we could have gotten him and only Hansen or Delcarmen held up the deal then Theo was dumber than hell. I just wonder if we will get another crack at him.

 

You don't make deals based on the Yankees. Thats how you end up with a $200M payroll and no championships. Overpaying for aging veterains is not the way to go. If you look at Helton's OPS the past 3 years its dropping like a rock, 1.089, .979, 880. This isn't a gradual decline, this is .100 points of OPS dropping each year. He only hit 15 HRs last year, which is exactly 2 more than Youk. I would rather not pay a guy $20M a year until he's 38 to decline. Helton had a .781 OPS last year away from the friendly hitting confines of Coors Field. Way too much money to guarentee a guy that age, with that level of declining abilities. It would be a great pickup for one season but awful for the remainder of the contract. You don't overpay for one of the worst contracts in baseball.

[ORS]

Tell me this ORS---Would you like to see Helton in a Yankee uniform? You heard it here first. If Menky doesn't do the job offensively, and he won't, the Yankees will pick up his contract as the trading deadline and we might be in very deep s***. No, I'm not clairvoyant but the Yankees have always liked to cut us off at the pass. Over on Dirt Dogs I told my friends there December a year back that if we didn't resign Damon the Yankees would swoop in and get him. I think they will do the same with Helton.

 

Frankly I don't give a s*** about what might happen to him three years down the road. If he can help us win a World Series or two I say it's worth the stretch, and I don't want to see him in a Yankee jersey. If we could have gotten him and only Hansen or Delcarmen held up the deal then Theo was dumber than hell. I just wonder if we will get another crack at him.

This year it would improve them. In the future he'd be their dead weight instead of ours. Call it a wash.

 

I think we can drop the "you heard it here first" mumbo jumbo. Everyone knows the Yankees are out there. Everyone knows what their needs are. You aren't cluing anyone in to anything. So, you predicted the Yankees would be after Damon last December? How did you do it? Might as well quit the day job, Kreskin, and use your powers on the lottery.

 

If I'm given the option of a World Series now with a contract that will be a burden in the future, then, sure, I take the championship. But that's not how it works in the real world. Helton improves our chances, but guarantees us nothing, and has substantial risk attached to him. The new revenue sharing has made it so that fewer and fewer elite players are hitting the free agent market. So, when some of them do, and some of them will, Helton's contract could handcuff them from making the best offer to a Santana, Zambrano, or Cabrera.

[jacksonianmarch]

Seabeach, these arent your typial yankees. We dont have George running around trying to field the (as crunch would say) 1997 all star team. I dont want Helton. We have too many inflexible contracts to begin with and Cashman's MO has been flexibility in light of our newly "flush with talent" minor league system. First base is actually being kept warm for Duncan, IMO. Who to this point has had injury problems derail part of his career, but is still only 21-22 and has already smacked 60 minor league bombs. So in short, f*** Helton. You want him, you can have him. Our lineup will be the best in the game (barring injury) with or without him.

[Mr Crunchy]

i dont care if helton is in a yankee uniform

in fact

id rather see him than giambi

 

heltons power#s have disappeared

mike lowell had more extra base hits than helton and people are calling him finished

heltons deal is eternal and in no way should we get into bed with him till 2011

[ORS]

First base is being kept warm for Duncan? You better hope they've finally made a self-sustaining fusion reactor because there just isn't enough coal and oil for the pace that he's moving through the system.

 

It's actually 49 HRs, and his high OPS above low-A was .840 last year on his second attempt at AA. If he can repeat that at AAA, that gives them someone who's MLE will be about an .800 OPS. I hope and pray you are right about him being the future, because that is mundane for 1B, and horrible for someone who isn't a deft fielder, like Duncan isn't.

[jacksonianmarch]

The kid just turned 22, which is about the age that most kids come out of college at. Last yr he started at AAA but was injured and rebounded nicely in AA with 10 HR in 206AB. The kid has power and last yr after returning to AA, was the first time he really equalized his walks and strikeouts. He is taking a long time, absolutely, but he was drafted right out of high school and to this point has 49HR in 1467AB starting at 18 yrs old. He isnt a can't miss prospect and his injury history is scary, but you can bet that a 22 yr old with a lot of power and just starting to control the zone has a future in the majors. If he starts well in AAA this yr, we may see him by midseason.

[ORS]

His BB and K rates look a lot like this guy, only without the same power.

 

Adam Dunn without the power? I stand by my original point.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dunn didnt show extraordinary power until his final season in the minors.

[ORS]

I figured you'd take the bait there. He was 21 that year. Duncan is 22 this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Take the bait? Last yr was mostly a lost yr for Duncan as he started it off with an injury. When he returned healthy, he was on pace to have 30 bombs in a typical 600AB season.

[jacksonianmarch]

ORS, I am not stupid. I dont think this kid will come in gangbusters and rewrite the record book. He has the tools. He has power. Has a nice left handed stroke, which fits well in Yankee stadium. He has a good eye and K's a ton. Sounds like every yankee in our lineup. If he plays well in AAA this yr, we will see him.

[ORS]

Here's the problem with your analysis, Jacko. It's always surficial. You just looked at Dunn's stats and said to yourself, "It happened in the last year, so that must be it", without looking at the ages or levels. Dunn hit 3 levels, ending at the ML level, and raked at each stop when he was 21. Duncan, after being the AFL player of the year, couldn't handle AAA and had to repeat AA. It wasn't just injury. He couldn't handle the level. So, he'll get a second shot that Dunn didn't need.

 

Adam Dunn is a good ball player, but he has warts. His value is his power and patience. Duncan shows the same warts without the same power. Could he do it? Sure, anything can happen. But calling this guy, given his struggles, the future 1B of the $200M Yankees is complete fanboyism. If he can't crank out a consistent .900+ OPS, which is leaps and bounds above anything he has done thus far, then I'll change my mind. Until then, I think they'll find another option.