Who will be the Sox's #2 hitter in the line up for 2007

[a700hitter]

Better than a gimpy Darin Erstad.

Erstad on one leg is a better OF than Hinske. I know linebackers that play the OF better than Hisnke. If Hinske starts any games in the OF this year, the Red Sox are in big trouble.

[TheKilo]

Erstad on one leg is a better OF than Hinske. I know linebackers that play the OF better than Hisnke. If Hinske starts any games in the OF this year' date=' the Red Sox are in big trouble.[/quote']

 

And your logic behind this is what?

 

Show me some numbers. Convince me otherwise.

 

edit - Although I do agree if he's starting CF with any regularity there's problems.

[a700hitter]

And your logic behind this is what?

 

Show me some numbers. Convince me otherwise.

 

edit - Although I do agree if he's starting CF with any regularity there's problems.

 

Logic? Have you seen this guy play the OF? He looks like a tank on an Indy track. Numbers? He played OF on two teams in 2006. When he was on Toronto in 2006, they were a third place team. When he came to the Red Sox and played the OF for 15 games, they finished in 3rd place. Playing him in your OF is an act of desperation. He's not an OF ...period. It would be like the Yankees putting Jason Giambi in the OF. They are built alike except Hinske has a thicker neck. Erstad, on the other hand, is an OF and when healthy, he's a damn good OF. He has two gold gloves in the OF and one at 1B. Hinske is a butcher wherever he plays.

[riverside sluggers]

Ok... you are blaming the acquisition of Eric Hinske why they finished 3rd place?? Yea the torrid pitching, vast ammount of injuries had nothing to do with it. Just a tad exagerration on your part. Considering he's currently the 5th OF on the active roster... he could start a game once every blue moon. Sorry just laughable is that him starting 1 game in your mind puts the playoff possibilities down the toilet

 

A700 they can only add Erstad if they trade Hinske for whatever they can get, or keep Hinske as the backup 1st baseman and weaken the opening day pitching staff with just an 11 man crew

[a700hitter]

Ok... you are blaming the acquisition of Eric Hinske why they finished 3rd place?? Yea the torrid pitching, vast ammount of injuries had nothing to do with it. Just a tad exagerration on your part. Considering he's currently the 5th OF on the active roster... he could start a game once every blue moon. Sorry just laughable is that him starting 1 game in your mind puts the playoff possibilities down the toilet

My point is that you have a pretty sucky team if you have to resort to playing Hinske in the OF. He's not the sole cause or even a major cause of the Red Sox finishing third. Him in the OF was the result of them being a 3rd place team. You don't find OF's like Hinske on winning teams. If he sees OF time in 2007, it wil be because we suck.

[riverside sluggers]

I think it will be because of injuries if he sees regular playing time in the outfield not because the Sox suck. He's the 5th OF (in case bad s*** happens), more often than not we will be seeing him at 1st & 3rd. How many teams worry about who is their 5th OF? Remember that opening day rosters are not the same as the playoff rosters. Trades/surprise call ups will be made. Who knew Dave Roberts would be our 5th OF by the end of 04?

[a700hitter]

A700 they can only add Erstad if they trade Hinske for whatever they can get' date=' or keep Hinske as the backup 1st baseman and weaken the opening day pitching staff with just an 11 man crew[/quote']I'd take what I could get for him. I'd sell him to Japan for a platter of Sushi. Or I'd just cut him. He sucks. At least Cora is an above average fielder. WMP has great power off the bench. Hinske brings nothing off the bench. At least Erstad would bring versatility.

 

Edited for spelling

[a700hitter]

I think it will be because of injuries if he sees regular playing time in the outfield not because the Sox suck. He's the 5th OF (in case bad s*** happens)' date=' more often than not we will be seeing him at 1st & 3rd. How many teams worry about who si their 5th OF? Remember that opening day rosters are not the same as the playoff rosters. Trades/surprise call ups will be made. Who knew Dave Roberts would be our 5th OF by the end of 04?[/quote']I thought the FO held itself accountable for putting together a very poor team last year. Claiming injuries as an excuse is just that... an excuse. The Yankees had even more devastating injuries than the Red Sox. They never put a hack in the OF like Hinske. They had Melky and then got a #3 hitter and excellent fielder in Abreu. We passed on Abreu and went for the tag sale on Hinske who Toronto was ready to put to the curb with the garbage. He played the OF for the Sox because they had no depth, were poorly constructed, and were just a bad team. Would they have been a better team if they hadn't suffered the injuries? Yes, and if the Queen had balls she'd be the King. In August and September they were a terrible team ... period. Hinske would never play OF on a good team. If you see him in the OF in 2007, don't bother to look at the standings, because they'll suck. I don't know the exact reasons why they'll suck and I hope they don't suck, but it is not a good sign if Hinske is on your depth chart for the OF. It means your bench is not deep. Don't look now, but despite all the great activity by the FO this off-season, the bench is not deep at all.

[riverside sluggers]

Im sorry but Im not putting worriness that the Sox will not contend at all because Hinske is the 5th OF, he seems set to receive playing time at 1st & 3rd base more than the OF. Again you do realize that the opening day roster is never the same during the course of the season?

 

Wait now youre saying even if the Sox last year didnt have the vast ammount of injuries they still wouldve ended up a 3rd place team? Youre really blowing smoke now. If the Sox didnt lose Trot, Varitek, Gonzalez, Wily Mo, Manny, Ortiz, Schilling, Wakefield, Wells (no trade if they were in good shape), and Papelbon... they wouldve been at least in competition for the wild card

[jacksonianmarch]

riverside, they started sliding prior to Vteks injury.

[SuperManny]

I'd take what I could get for him. I'd sell him to Japan for a platter of Sushi. Or I'd just cut him. He sucks. At least Cora is an above average fielder. WMP has great power off the bench. Hinske brings nothing off the bench. At least Erstad would bring versatility.

 

Edited for spelling

 

Yeah lets get Erstad for his versitility because he had a 60 OPS+ last year. Nothing like getting a guy who can hit with an OPS just cracking .600. Erstad is a waste of a roster space, Hinske's OPS last year was 113. Hinske is basically a platoon player at this point, he had a .896 OPS vs. righties last year. Thats more valuable than anything Erstad could add to the team. Its really not even close that Hinske is worlds better than Erstad at this point.

 

As for the #2 hitter, Youk is ideal with Drew being a solid option as well. Drew is a better fit for the #5 spot in this roster IMO though. Drew would make a better #2 than Youk but the Sox need an upgrade at the #5 spot and no one else fits that besides Drew.

[riverside sluggers]

riverside' date=' they started sliding prior to Vteks injury.[/quote']

 

Under your assesment they would still be an 86 win team or worse even if none of those players were injured?

[jacksonianmarch]

No, but they were faltering heavy and 3 or 4 more wins may have occured if the late injuries were negated. The WC winner won mid 90s. You guys would not have come close.

[a700hitter]

Im sorry but Im not putting worriness that the Sox will not contend at all because Hinske is the 5th OF' date=' he seems set to receive playing time at 1st & 3rd base more than the OF.[/quote'] He shouldn't be receiving playing time at any position. He's a hack of a fielder and a terrible hitter.

Again you do realize that the opening day roster is never the same during the course of the season?

Duh. What's your point? I am not predicting that Hinske will be on the team at the end of the year. I am also not predicting that he will play any OF. I am hoping that he will not play any OF.

Wait now youre saying even if the Sox last year didnt have the vast ammount of injuries they still wouldve ended up a 3rd place team? Youre really blowing smoke now. If the Sox didnt lose Trot' date=' Varitek, Gonzalez, Wily Mo, Manny, Ortiz, Schilling, Wakefield, Wells (no trade if they were in good shape), and Papelbon... they wouldve been at least in competition for the wild card[/quote']No, I am saying that they should have built a deeper team to withstand the injuries until those guys came back. They didn't. They were forced to turn to garbage including Hinske at too many positions and they finsihed third. Replace Hinske with Abreu and they don't finish third, and they would not have been forced to throw $70 million at J.D.

[hoke3182]

I'd take what I could get for him. I'd sell him to Japan for a platter of Sushi. Or I'd just cut him. He sucks. At least Cora is an above average fielder. WMP has great power off the bench. Hinske brings nothing off the bench. At least Erstad would bring versatility.

 

Edited for spelling

What versatility does Erstad bring that Hinskie doesn't, Thier both average hitters. Hinske is not the best but he is better than Erstad and can play more positions and he is younger. Hinske is the better option off the bench.

[a700hitter]

What versatility does Erstad bring that Hinskie doesn't' date=' Thier both average hitters. Hinske is not the best but he is better than Erstad and can play more positions and he is younger. Hinske is the better option off the bench.[/quote']Hinske is a hack at three positions, and an embarrassment in the OF. Erstad has won two gold gloves in the OF and one at 1B. Hinske brings no above average skill off the bench while Erstad would at least provide a gold glove caliber glove in the INF and OF. I'm not a big fan of Erstad, but Hinske adds no value.

[TheKilo]

I think it's funny how Darin Erstad gives you more versatility in games when he plays less positions, is a worse hitter, and has injuries that can keep him for being an adequate fielder.

 

Eric Hinske MASHES lefthanded pitching. He can give Youks, Lowell, Pena, Drew, or Manny a day off.

 

 

He has a lot of worth coming off the bench. If he is starting regularly, yes it's a problem. But as a role player? I think he fits for the Sox quite nicely.

[a700hitter]

I think it's funny how Darin Erstad gives you more versatility in games when he plays less positions' date=' is a worse hitter, and has injuries that can keep him for being an adequate fielder.[/quote']He's an excellent fielder at 1B and in the OF. Not too many guys have GG's at an infield and OF position.

 

Eric Hinske MASHES lefthanded pitching.

Since his rookie year the only thing he mashes might be potatoes.

He can give Youks' date=' Lowell, [b']Pena, Drew, or Manny [/b]a day off.

He really is a terrible OF. Terrible. Have you seen him in the OF? We should hope that he doesn't play an inning in the OF in 2007.

[TheKilo]

He's an excellent fielder at 1B and in the OF. Not too many guys have GG's at an infield and OF position.

 

Since his rookie year the only thing he mashes might be potatoes. He really is a terrible OF. Terrible. Have you seen him in the OF? We should hope that he doesn't play an inning in the OF in 2007.

 

 

 

Fair enough, but have you seen Darin Erstad swing a bat?

[a700hitter]

Fair enough' date=' but have you seen Darin Erstad swing a bat?[/quote']If he could hit and play GG inf and OF, he'd be a starter making $10 million/year. My theory on building a bench is to have guys that have at least one exceptional tool even though the other aspects of his game might be below average. WMP brings above average power. Cora is an above-average fielder. I'd like to get some speed like Dave Roberts brought in 2004.

 

Edti: He's no worse than Kapler with the bat.

[TheKilo]

If he could hit and play GG inf and OF, he'd be a starter making $10 million/year. My theory on building a bench is to have guys that have at least one exceptional tool even though the other aspects of his game might be below average. WMP brings above average power. Cora is an above-average fielder. I'd like to get some speed like Dave Roberts brought in 2004.

 

Edti: He's no worse than Kapler with the bat.

 

Erstad will command a lot more money than Hinske will, IMO.

 

How much is Hinske making anyway?

[BSN07]

As far as the number 2 hitter goes, Ill bring my point up on Drew again, I think his numbers would be way better hitting in the 2 hole instead of the 5. With his decent speed and great OBP, he would likely score over 100 runs. He would see way better pitches too having Papi and Manny hitting behind him, and there doesn't get any better protection then that. Everyone is worried about the 5 hole hitter and someone protecting Manny, let me ask this, who has Manny had protecting him the hole time in Boston? No one, he has never had adequate protection behind him, that said he still hits .300 30+HRS and 120+ RBI's. He is going to most likely get those numbers if you took a guy off the street and put him at bat behind Manny. Yes it be nice to get more production out of the bottom half of the line up but I think you would get more out of Drew in the 2 spot. Here is what I would make for a line up,

 

1. SS Lugo

2. RF Drew

3. DH Papi

4. LF Manny

5. 3B Lowell

6. 1B Youk

7. C Tek

8. 2B Pedroia

9. CF Crisp

 

The reason I put Crisp at 9th instead of 8th, is just for having speed at that spot, but you could flip flop 8 and 9, but that looks like a decent line up.

 

1-2 good OBP/speed/some power, 3-4 you got Power/ good OBP, 5th is a doubles guy, 6th is a OBP guy, 7th with Tek is kind of an unknown, 7-8 you got speed/ low pressure.

[hoke3182]

As far as the number 2 hitter goes, Ill bring my point up on Drew again, I think his numbers would be way better hitting in the 2 hole instead of the 5. With his decent speed and great OBP, he would likely score over 100 runs. He would see way better pitches too having Papi and Manny hitting behind him, and there doesn't get any better protection then that. Everyone is worried about the 5 hole hitter and someone protecting Manny, let me ask this, who has Manny had protecting him the hole time in Boston? No one, he has never had adequate protection behind him, that said he still hits .300 30+HRS and 120+ RBI's. He is going to most likely get those numbers if you took a guy off the street and put him at bat behind Manny. Yes it be nice to get more production out of the bottom half of the line up but I think you would get more out of Drew in the 2 spot. Here is what I would make for a line up,

 

1. SS Lugo

2. RF Drew

3. DH Papi

4. LF Manny

5. 3B Lowell

6. 1B Youk

7. C Tek

8. 2B Pedroia

9. CF Crisp

 

The reason I put Crisp at 9th instead of 8th, is just for having speed at that spot, but you could flip flop 8 and 9, but that looks like a decent line up.

 

1-2 good OBP/speed/some power, 3-4 you got Power/ good OBP, 5th is a doubles guy, 6th is a OBP guy, 7th with Tek is kind of an unknown, 7-8 you got speed/ low pressure.

Thats pretty good and I wouldn't mind that but more than likely it will be youk 2nd drew 5th lowell 6th and crisp and pedoia likley flip. I do like your lineup better though. Your dead on wth the Manny thing he's never had a great bat behind before and he's always been consistent.

[riverside sluggers]

The Red Sox's 5th batter (Tek, Trot, Wily Mo, Lowell, sometimes Youk) throughout the entire 2006 season was the worst in MLB, maybe thats why people are putting a lot of thought into this for 2007. Also traditionally its best for your 3-4-5 to be power hitters

 

2006- Batting 5th

 

Varitek, 29 games- 20 for 113 (.177 avg) (.273 obp) (.354 slg) (.627 ops) 6 Doubles, Triple, 4 HRs, 12 RBIs, 11 Runs, 15 Walks, 25 Ks, SB

Nixon, 76 games- 75 for 270 (.276 avg) (.388 obp) (.400 slg) (.788 ops) 18 Doubles, 5 HRs, 39 RBIs, 45 Runs, 47 Walks, 39 Ks, 0 for 2 SBs

Wily Mo, 9 games- 7 for 25 (.280 avg) (.308 obp) (.360 slg) (.668 ops) 2 Doubles, RBI, 3 Runs, Walk, 7 Ks, 0 for 1 SB

Mike Lowell, 29 games- 22 for 106 (.208 avg) (.252 obp) (.358 slg) (.611 ops) 4 Doubles, 4 HRs, 13 RBIs, 7 Runs, 7 Walks, 10 Ks, 0 for 2 SBs

Kevin Youkilis, 17 games- 14 for 65 (.215 avg) (.307 obp) (.354 slg) (.661 ops) 6 Doubles, HR, 9 RBIs, 7 Runs, 9 Walks, 13 Ks, SB

 

JD Drew, 19 games- 19 for 55 (.345 avg) (.479 obp) (.673 slg) (1.152 ops) 7 Doubles, Triple, 3 HRs, 16 RBIs, 11 Runs, 16 Walks, 14 Ks

[Mr Crunchy]

looks like the 5 hole was pure cancer for us last year

youk was that bad??

wmp .308 obp??

[jacksonianmarch]

hinske mashes RHP, not LHP.

[TheKilo]

hinske mashes RHP' date=' not LHP.[/quote']

 

Good call.

[scaffolds]

As far as the number 2 hitter goes, Ill bring my point up on Drew again, I think his numbers would be way better hitting in the 2 hole instead of the 5. With his decent speed and great OBP, he would likely score over 100 runs. He would see way better pitches too having Papi and Manny hitting behind him, and there doesn't get any better protection then that. Everyone is worried about the 5 hole hitter and someone protecting Manny, let me ask this, who has Manny had protecting him the hole time in Boston? No one, he has never had adequate protection behind him, that said he still hits .300 30+HRS and 120+ RBI's. He is going to most likely get those numbers if you took a guy off the street and put him at bat behind Manny. Yes it be nice to get more production out of the bottom half of the line up but I think you would get more out of Drew in the 2 spot. Here is what I would make for a line up,

 

1. SS Lugo

2. RF Drew

3. DH Papi

4. LF Manny

5. 3B Lowell

6. 1B Youk

7. C Tek

8. 2B Pedroia

9. CF Crisp

 

The reason I put Crisp at 9th instead of 8th, is just for having speed at that spot, but you could flip flop 8 and 9, but that looks like a decent line up.

 

1-2 good OBP/speed/some power, 3-4 you got Power/ good OBP, 5th is a doubles guy, 6th is a OBP guy, 7th with Tek is kind of an unknown, 7-8 you got speed/ low pressure.

 

 

Bosox; Let me ask you a question, if you where a ML pitcher would pitch to Manny if the next two hitters behind him where Lowell and Youkilis?

[RobZombie]

To me the love for Youkilis amazes me as well. Its as if there is a stats mafia working for him. And they want to use their stats not all the stats.

 

Yes its true that Youkilis had the third best win-shares on the team, but how many of those were for in the second half?

 

Youkilis's stats were not good enough to be an every day player in the second half. A deep drop in a first year player's stats in the second half of the year is a major red flag.

 

Youkilis's love interests will continue to tell us that Youkilis was injured in the second half. If he was so injured that he lost 20% of his value then why was he even playing?

 

Youkilis is the third rail of Red Sox discussions. They point out that Youkilis' ability to walk made him a valuable player. If you point out that his OBP was under .350 in the second half they cover their ears and scream that they don't care and that Youkilis will morph back into a .290 15-20 HR player, despite showing no second half ability to do this.

[a700hitter]

To me the love for Youkilis amazes me as well. Its as if there is a stats mafia working for him. And they want to use their stats not all the stats.

 

Yes its true that Youkilis had the third best win-shares on the team, but how many of those were for in the second half?

 

Youkilis's stats were not good enough to be an every day player in the second half. A deep drop in a first year player's stats in the second half of the year is a major red flag.

 

Youkilis's love interests will continue to tell us that Youkilis was injured in the second half. If he was so injured that he lost 20% of his value then why was he even playing?

 

Youkilis is the third rail of Red Sox discussions. They point out that Youkilis' ability to walk made him a valuable player. If you point out that his OBP was under .350 in the second half they cover their ears and scream that they don't care and that Youkilis will morph back into a .290 15-20 HR player, despite showing no second half ability to do this.

Excellent post. The guy has marginal major league talent at best. Hard work has taken him this far, but it won't bring him much further. Over the course of his career, he's more likely to be the player that he was in the second half of 2006, and that is not very good. I'd sell high on him and trade him for relief help if we get Helton without giving up Lowell.