Who will be the Sox's #2 hitter in the line up for 2007

[TGov]

Is Youk on this site? How am I getting on him? I appreciate that he plays hard' date=' and I hope he succeeds beyond anything predicted by scouts. However, he has little physical talent, a slow bat, an average arm, below average speed, and below average power. His only plus was his OBP which fell precipitously during the second=d half last year. I don't believe that this had to do with being worn out, but more to do with the pitchers figuring him out. If that is the case and his average and OBP fall, he will be a sack of s***. It would be good to have a contingency plan. Our infield is looking very weak offensively. I think we need an upgrade at 1B and we should use Youk in a package to get us a pitcher.[/quote']

 

No matter how much a like Youk and appreciate his dedication, hard work and hustle, I do agree on upgrade at 1st, Youk isnt the greatest hitter, he does play great D, and has great OBP... but what if he gets figured out and they he can really use his bat effectively, so I wouldnt complain if the Sox went out and got a 1st baseman with more contact and power... I acually would like to see Wily Mo Pena play first, he would be great to have in the lineup everyday, but Youks OBP is a precious commodity in today's game...

[a700hitter]

How is trading youk for a pitcher an upgrade at first. Who's gonna play first? And what upgrade at first would we realisticly get?

If I had the answer, I'd have put it in my post. Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with this infield. It is weak offensively. If Youk continues to hit like he did in the second half of 2006 and Pedroia starts slow, the infield will be an offensive bust. It's up to Theo to figure out how to get a good stick at 1B. If he does that would make Youk expendable, and I think he is good trade bait right now. He will not be if he is exposed as a punch hitter with a slow bat.

[VA Sox Fan]

If I had the answer' date=' I'd have put it in my post. Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with this infield. It is weak offensively. If Youk continues to hit like he did in the second half of 2006 and Pedroia starts slow, the infield will be an offensive bust. It's up to Theo to figure out how to get a good stick at 1B. If he does that would make Youk expendable, and I think he is good trade bait right now. He will not be if he is exposed as a punch hitter with a slow bat.[/quote']

 

Thanks for pointing out that Youk only struggled in the 2nd half of the season, the later half, if I might add.

 

Theo loves him, like Drew and Wily Mo. I understand the "trade bait" aspect but with his youth, I say give him time.

 

I can't believe Theo didn't re-sign Gonzalez or Loretta....I'm confused and confounded.

[TGov]

If I had the answer' date=' I'd have put it in my post. Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with this infield. It is weak offensively. If Youk continues to hit like he did in the second half of 2006 and Pedroia starts slow, the infield will be an offensive bust. It's up to Theo to figure out how to get a good stick at 1B. If he does that would make Youk expendable, and I think he is good trade bait right now. He will not be if he is exposed as a punch hitter with a slow bat.[/quote']

 

I gotta agree with ya, but dont foret about "lead-off" Lugo and "doubles" Lowell on the other side of the diamond, and for 1st I hear Wily Mo is gonna get some time there during spring training so during the season he will hopefully switch off with Youk... and play the OF...

[a700hitter]

I understand the "trade bait" aspect but with his youth' date=' I say give him time.[/quote']It's better to trade a guy one year too soon than one year too late.

[VA Sox Fan]

It's better to trade a guy one year too soon than one year too late.

 

True, so time will tell....it's up to the FO. I like Youk.

[a700hitter]

I like him too, but he's not very good.

[example1]

If I had the answer' date=' I'd have put it in my post. Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with this infield. It is weak offensively. If Youk continues to hit like he did in the second half of 2006 and Pedroia starts slow, the infield will be an offensive bust. It's up to Theo to figure out how to get a good stick at 1B. If he does that would make Youk expendable, and I think he is good trade bait right now. He will not be if he is exposed as a punch hitter with a slow bat.[/quote']

 

My guess is that the sox are going to hold onto Youkilis this season, because he is a valuable role player. Then, next season, they will move Youkilis to 3B and acquire a 1B or convert WMP or Ortiz to a 1B. Either of those guys provides good power at 1B and both of them are on the team. One of them doesn't have an obvious place in the lineup.

 

I think Youkilis will be a better hitter over the next few years and will be a perfect guy in a lineup that adds another 1B or converts someone.

 

I know that you're saying "Why wait! Why not get the pieces you need now so you can win immediately while we have Ortiz and Manny!" (we've discussed this before, right ):

 

1. Youkilis probably won't get the type of interest that would make him worth dealing in an Arroyo type deal.

 

2. Lowell definitely won't get that type of interest. (Basically, a deal isn't there for either!!)

 

3. Having both on the corners of your infield is, admittedly, a little low offensively, but a BIG plus defensively. It doesn't necessarily equal the amount if you had, say, Konerko at first or D. Lee, but the confidence it gives pitchers defensively is huge and that's what this team is going to be about.

 

I think the Sox could do better, but I'm not sure they could do better in this climate. They will be done with lowell after next season, and rid of his 9m salary. Youks should move to 3B or they should acquire a big hitting 3B. One of the two needs to have + power.

 

I am a big Youkilis fan and I really like his style. I think he will be an important part of a very good competitive core that this team will have for the next few years. Youk will learn when to jump on pitches more quickly to reduce his K numbers and, hopefully, increase his power production a bit more.

[TheKilo]

I say we need to give Youkilis more than one full season before we start worrying. Let him have the chance to make adjustments.

 

Darin Erstad, over the last few seasons, has probably been the worst offensive first baseman in the entire league.

[scaffolds]

I am hoping that Pena may play more first base than many expects and Youkilis could come in for defense, that would be a better role for Youkilis. The point of moving Youkilis to third base next year doesn't make sense, by doing that they will moving their problem at first base to third base. If the Sox decides not to bring lowell back for 2008 and Spann shows in 2007 that he is ready for the ML he will be a better answer, Spann is more athletic, better range and potentially better power.

[Mr Crunchy]

i think that the power outage at the corners continues with youk and lowell

any idea if we set records in power futility over the past year??

 

and i think weve seen the best of youk already

he got off to a torrid start and fell like a frenchman in combat at the seasons end

hes not all that young

he'll be 28 before the season starts

.429 slugging from the 1st basemen isnt good

our other corner hit a ton of doubles.20 hrs and .284 while playing golden glove 3b

with a year under his belt that may rise to .300 with his use of the wall

 

i like youk

he plays hard but hes not the end all be all of the team

[hoke3182]

I am hoping that Pena may play more first base than many expects and Youkilis could come in for defense' date=' that would be a better role for Youkilis. The point of moving Youkilis to third base next year doesn't make sense, by doing that they will moving their problem at first base to third base. If the Sox decides not to bring lowell back for 2008 and Spann shows in 2007 that he is ready for the ML he will be a better answer, Spann is more athletic, better range and potentially better power.[/quote']

You notice how much Spann strikes out, about the the same as Youk and Pena, wait till he gets to the majors that number will go through the roof. He stinks, and I would be suprised if he ever starts a major league game with the Sox.

[scaffolds]

You notice how much Spann strikes out' date=' about the the same as Youk and Pena, wait till he gets to the majors that number will go through the roof. He stinks, and I would be suprised if he ever starts a major league game with the Sox.[/quote']

 

Spann strike out 85 times in 360 at bats, which isn't great but acceptable for a 22 yrs in his first year in AA, but even with 85 strike outs he hit close to 300 ( 294) Spann doesn't lack the bat speed that Youkilis does and he projects more power than Youkilis does. If Youkilis got an opportunity why wouldn't Spann get one?

[Fried Neckbones]

Youk got his opportunity during the "undervalued stat that is OBP" phase of the Sox FO. He drew shitloads of walks, saw a ton of pitches, and fit what Theo and Bill James wanted to build the organization into. Does that mean his time is past and the Sox should dump him? Probably not. I can't remember where I saw this, but I saw a comparison of Youk's numbers as a first baseman and a third baseman. While offensivly he stunk as a 1b, his 3b numbers (as compared to other 3b in the league) were actually decent. Moving him to third in '08 would save some coin that the FO could use to run down a 1b or another top-tier starter. He plays good d, still works counts, and is still a valuable role player in the Billy Mueller mold (attitude and contribution-wise, not skill set per se).

As for Spann, he never walks. At any level. He has about a 2-3k:bb ratio through his career. Not to say he's not a good prospect and should be relegated to the scrap heap because he doesn't walk - it's just something to think about.

[scaffolds]

Fried, The key word is decent, with a contending team like with the Sox no one is expecting to have a decent player, you will find those type of players in non contending teams.

[example1]

Fried' date=' The key word is decent, with a contending team like with the Sox no one is expecting to have a decent player, you will find those type of players in non contending teams.[/quote']

 

That's BS. The only team that DOES NOT have 'decent' or 'role' players scattered strategically throughout its lineup is the Yankees. Lots of people are expecting to have decent players. Who was Bill Mueller? Kevin Millar? David Eckstien? Joe Crede? Marcus Thames? I don't buy this view that unless its a perrenial all-star he's not good enough for the Red Sox to get to and win the WS. ANY team should want a .375 OBP guy who sees more pitches than anyone else in the league, who can play both corner positions and will give his damnedest in LF or RF or 2B, wherever you ask him to go.

 

The only reason you wouldn't want him is if you could trade him and get someone better. Other than that he's a fine player that can form the backbone of any lineup.

[TheKilo]

I still cant belive people thought Darin Erstad was a feasible solution.

[scaffolds]

That's BS. The only team that DOES NOT have 'decent' or 'role' players scattered strategically throughout its lineup is the Yankees. Lots of people are expecting to have decent players. Who was Bill Mueller? Kevin Millar? David Eckstien? Joe Crede? Marcus Thames? I don't buy this view that unless its a perrenial all-star he's not good enough for the Red Sox to get to and win the WS. ANY team should want a .375 OBP guy who sees more pitches than anyone else in the league, who can play both corner positions and will give his damnedest in LF or RF or 2B, wherever you ask him to go.

 

The only reason you wouldn't want him is if you could trade him and get someone better. Other than that he's a fine player that can form the backbone of any lineup.

 

While you where very disrespectfull in your respose to my post, let me tell you decent means average and none of those players where average, they where compliment players but not average players. One more thing having a love afair with Youkilis like this isn't healthy.

[BSN07]

I like Youk, he's one of those dirt ball players, but I wouldn't shed any tears if they upgraded the position offensively. I still think they might once Lowell is gone, either Youk moves to 3rd and they get a more offensive 1B, or he stays at 1st and we go after a offensive 3rd basemen. No clue who they could get to play first but there might be aa couple of options at 3rd.

 

Crede is a FA after this season and being a Boras client the CWS won't resign him. Also if Arod has another miserable summer in NY and finally comes to grip that he will never be liked in NY, he might opt out of his contract and be a FA. Most thought there was no way he would opt out and leave all that money on the table but the way the FA market is he could easily get a new 5 year deal worth 100M no problem, and what better way to stick it to the New Yorkers then to sign with BOS and get it together in the playoffs with them! I don't beleive this a likely scenario but just a fun one to think of.

[hoke3182]

Fried' date=' The key word is decent, with a contending team like with the Sox no one is expecting to have a decent player, you will find those type of players in non contending teams.[/quote']Who would we get thats great? There are no great 1st baseman available. The only guy I could think of his maybe Helton, but I think he's on the decline and he as a huge salary. I'd like to hear who you guys think we could get realistically.

[hoke3182]

Is Helton a free agent at the end of this year?

[BSN07]

Helton still has a few years left on his deal.

 

Texeria has said to be available, but he wants a big contract.

 

I think there will be more options at 3rd.

[scaffolds]

I agree that Helton isn't the answer, at this time for at least the first half of the season you have to go with Youkilis and perhaps Pena, but unless Pena can handle the position it doesn't means that there is a weakness in the line up.

[Fried Neckbones]

Youk's numbers from last year compare pretty favorably to Billy Muellers at the same age (27). The only real difference was that Billy struck out less, which is a problem for the 2-hole. Still, I can't think of a better in house option than a guy who gets on base at about .380 for his career, and has an OPS of about .800. Not the greatest, but with Youk's attitude and "intangibles" (I hate to bring that into an argument, but it applies here IMO), he will be a fine member of the '07 Sox and a solid contributor.

[a700hitter]

I still cant belive people thought Darin Erstad was a feasible solution.

Before injuries robbed him of his legs, he was a better player than Youk's.

[TheKilo]

Before injuries robbed him of his legs' date=' he was a better player than Youk's.[/quote']

 

He's an awful offensive first baseman. AWFUL.

 

And that doesn't explain why you'd want to sign him now.

[a700hitter]

He's an awful offensive first baseman. AWFUL.

 

And that doesn't explain why you'd want to sign him now.

It's just a possibility. He's a platoon candidate at first and he can play the OF. Good fielder. He's better than Stinskie. He'd have to come cheap though.

[TheKilo]

It's just a possibility. He's a platoon candidate at first and he can play the OF. Good fielder. He's better than Stinskie. He'd have to come cheap though.

 

He won't, and Hinske gives them more versatility. He can play OF, 3B, and 1B.

[a700hitter]

He won't' date=' and Hinske gives them more versatility. He can play OF, 3B, and 1B.[/quote']Hinske is an absolutely terrible OF. He makes WMP look like Paul Blair.

[TheKilo]

Hinske is an absolutely terrible OF. He makes WMP look like Paul Blair.

 

Better than a gimpy Darin Erstad.