Yankees and Mientkiewicz agree to terms

[jacksonianmarch]

Prediction: He'll do far more for AZ in 2007 than anyone the Yankees are getting in return will do for them.

 

that will have more to do with arizona being in a s***** division than him being any good.

[a700hitter]

that will have more to do with arizona being in a s***** division than him being any good.

We will have to see how he does against the Yankees in 2007.

[jacksonianmarch]

We will have to see how he does against the Yankees in 2007.

 

We shall.

[a700hitter]

700. You keep forgetting that last season we were 11 games up on you guys while getting less than 400ABs out of Abreu and Matsui combined. Give both of those guys a full season and it is like acquiring your own elite power bat to the best lineup in baseball.

We've faced Matsui for several years already. Abreu is a good replacement for Sheffield. The Johnson-Pettitte swap is a wash. There is no addition to last years roster that concerns me for 2007, and I am quite pleased that they didn't keep Sheffield and Johnson. I really would not like facing a lineup with Sheffield at 1B and Giambi at DH, with a rotation of Wang, Moose, Johnson, Pettitte, and Igawa.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I recall you calling RJ a BP pitcher last season 700. Why the change of heart? Now your glad hes gone.

[jacksonianmarch]

I recall you calling RJ a BP pitcher last season 700. Why the change of heart? Now your glad hes gone.

 

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter, he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter' date=' he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.[/quote']

 

Oh I'm fully aware of that.

[elsrbueno]

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter' date=' he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.[/quote']

 

If anyone can be accused of seeing things "through rose colored glasses" when it comes to your favorite team it's you, Jackson.

 

Listen-- I like your passion but most of your expectations are unrealistic. On the same token, a700 has a similar passion for the Red Sox that I believe he lets get in the way of an objective opinion. As a general rule too, he has a mistrust of prospects and an overtrust of name brand guys. He'd trade Hughes in a second for Curt Schilling or Bartolo Colon because of what they've DONE, not necessarily what they CAN DO and that's fine and dandy in the short term, but not a strong long term plan.

 

a700-- I like your passion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating things as I see them.

 

but Jackson, let's refrain from the "pot calling the kettle black" senario.

[jacksonianmarch]

If anyone can be accused of seeing things "through rose colored glasses" when it comes to your favorite team it's you, Jackson.

 

Listen-- I like your passion but most of your expectations are unrealistic. On the same token, a700 has a similar passion for the Red Sox that I believe he lets get in the way of an objective opinion. As a general rule too, he has a mistrust of prospects and an overtrust of name brand guys. He'd trade Hughes in a second for Curt Schilling or Bartolo Colon because of what they've DONE, not necessarily what they CAN DO and that's fine and dandy in the short term, but not a strong long term plan.

 

a700-- I like your passion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating things as I see them.

 

but Jackson, let's refrain from the "pot calling the kettle black" senario.

 

I hear ya man. I just find the outlook a lot brighter these days. The days of knowing the system is barren is over. Nothing was more fun than watching the kids come up in 94, 95, and 96 and then seeing them go from young role players on a championship team to the anchors of a dynasty. Then came the fall. Nothing was more disheartening than watching the yankees try to rely on the likes of Tim Redding, Darrell May, and Sean Henn as the best our farm could offer as MLB talent after Wang in 05. I am sure you felt the same way last yr. Knowing that after Lester, the cupboard was bare for at least 2 levels of the minors, it was actually 3 levels at the time. That hurts, that sucks. That means that you have no safety net and you need to get lucky like the yanks did in 05 with Small and Chacon being our best pitchers. Yes, lucky. We should not have made the playoffs that yr, let alone won the division.

 

Now we have one of the best farm systems in baseball. After the Sheff trade, we were rated #6 in all of baseball. After the RJ deal, we are likely in the top 5. We didnt trade away anybody that was integral to next yrs success either. We traded our injured, old, and overpaid #4/5, a player without a position, and a player we were going to buyout anyway and reloaded our system with MLB ready pitching talent. That means, gone are the days of seeing a MLB journeyman take the reigns when the plans fail. Gone are the days of 30 yr old rookies hitting the bigs on our team and watching with empty optimism as they spit the bit. Here are the days of deep systems, tons of pitching talent, and development. Its the way it had been before George f***ed us. Something that yankee fans have heard the sox fans tell them, and outwardly denied while inwardly agreed completely.

 

The biggest problem for the yankees in today's game is that you cannot buy pitching like you used to. You either develop it, or trade for it. Nowadays, the only guys who hit the FA market are either past their prime, or not top of the line. The best young pitchers are locked up even by the cheapest of franchises or dealt to the teams with deep talent. We had to settle for the Pavano's, Wright's, Chacon's of the world while other team's developed the talent. Well now we have 5 options, 7 if you count the two guys who made the team last yr, as pitchers for our future, all of which have the MLB debut date of being 2007 (and that doesnt count Wang or Igawa). The future as either pitchers on our team or bait for others. That is nice. We finally are doing what Stick Michael told us we should be doing.

 

Are we taking a step back in 07? I dont think the trades we have made in 07 are setting us back as much as the fact that we dont have a lights out staff to begin with. We'll hit. The bullpen will be fine. The rotation doesnt have one guy who I look at as a prototypical ace. Wang is a quirky styled ace pitcher, but a guy who really is a 2/3. Mussina and Pettitte are nice #2/3 pitchers. Igawa a slotted 4 and Pavano a pussy. Johnson does nothing to make that better. Adding Clemens will add another guy who in the AL would be in the 2/3 category. Its a nice rotation, one with limited ability to fail, and limited ability to surge past expectations. Its a rotation you could certainly win with. It isnt going to be the anchor of a team. It wont drag a team down either.

 

Overall, I think the team has the makings to be very good in 07. They will make the playoffs and likely win the division by a good margin. But they arent a team built like your prototypical playoff team. So we'll see. But for once, I wont have to look at this yr and say, is this when it all ends? After this season, will we become the SF Giants, a team without a future? No, our farm is loaded with pitching, the one thing we couldnt buy. That should make all the difference.

[BSN07]

NYY rotation is looking like St. Louis's of 04. No apperent ace, filled with 2,3's.

 

I think both our teams have made moves for the now and the future, both teams have set themselves up nicely to be teams of top tier quality in there league for years to come.

 

A700 had it kind of right with the dismantling idea, except that its not going to happen all this year, for the next couple of years I see the NYY trading more of its older players/worthless contract guys for minor leaguers or not renewing there contracts, 2yrs from now there probably will be no Pettite,Moose,Posada,Abreu,Mo(retire),Williams(maybe gone this yr), the NYY will look like a far different team in the coming years, going with youth instead of over paid has beens or nobodys. Its boarderline rebuilding, but NYY has enough talent in the rest of its players to make the team a contender, as far as there lineup goes it brings them back towards the pack a little ways. But with AROD( if he doesnt opt out)Jeter, Giambi, Damon,Canu there line up will still be strong, and they will be able to get awy with having younger position players/starting pitchers, where as most teams don't have thta luxury.

[jacksonianmarch]

NYY rotation is looking like St. Louis's of 04. No apperent ace, filled with 2,3's.

 

I think both our teams have made moves for the now and the future, both teams have set themselves up nicely to be teams of top tier quality in there league for years to come.

 

A700 had it kind of right with the dismantling idea, except that its not going to happen all this year, for the next couple of years I see the NYY trading more of its older players/worthless contract guys for minor leaguers or not renewing there contracts, 2yrs from now there probably will be no Pettite,Moose,Posada,Abreu,Mo(retire),Williams(maybe gone this yr), the NYY will look like a far different team in the coming years, going with youth instead of over paid has beens or nobodys. Its boarderline rebuilding, but NYY has enough talent in the rest of its players to make the team a contender, as far as there lineup goes it brings them back towards the pack a little ways. But with AROD( if he doesnt opt out)Jeter, Giambi, Damon,Canu there line up will still be strong, and they will be able to get awy with having younger position players/starting pitchers, where as most teams don't have thta luxury.

 

 

Good comparison, but to an AL version of such. That 04 rotation would get f***ing mashed in the ALE (and did by the sox).

 

Overall, great post. I feel that the yankees have a complete team right now, but by no means are they as strong as they were years ago. But at the same time, they are filling the needs that cannot be filled externally with youth. We are reloading to coin a phrase used by one of my college coaches years back. The team will still be successful, while getting younger. And I also agree on the 2 yrs thing. Previously, the entire yankee roster was locked in 2 yrs out. Now, the guys under contract for 09 are as follows.

 

C- ??

1B- ??

2B- Cano

SS- Jeter

3B- ARod

LF- Matsui

CF- Damon

RF- Melky?

 

1- Wang

2- ?? - Hughes?

3- ?? - Sanchez?

4- Igawa

5- ?? - Clippard, Ohlendorf, Jackson, Chamberlain, Betances, Karstens, Rasner?

 

and none in the bullpen, although Mo has said he wants to open the new stadium, so that sounds like he will be here till it opens in 09. That breeds flexibility above. No more passing on the best possible FA because their slot is filled.

 

I also think the sox are breeding good things for the future. Matsuzaka and Papelbon should be nice additions to the rotation and if Beckett can figure it out, the sox might have something brewing.

[a700hitter]

I recall you calling RJ a BP pitcher last season 700. Why the change of heart? Now your glad hes gone.

Yes, i am glad he's gone. No matter what I called him and no matter how much I enjoyed him having a bad season (for him), I never liked when he faced the Red Sox. If the surgery helps him rebound, I am glad we have seen the last of him in a Yankee uniform.

[a700hitter]

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter' date=' he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.[/quote']No, I'd have a gun in my mouth. I can assure you of that. You can disagree with my opinion about your off-season moves, but don't treat me as some mindless anti-Yankee fan that finds fault with everything Yankee. I hate the Yankees, and I proudly admit that, but Alexander the Great, you have been on this site long enough to know that I have sung Cashman's praises on several occasions. I have gone so far as to say that he runs rings around Theo. I praised Cashman for his trade deadline deals in 2006, and I brutalized the Red Sox FO for throwing in the towel and making no moves. I also praised Cashman for "outmaneuvering" the Red Sox FO with Johnny Damon. I am still annoyed by that whole episode. My opinions in this regard have annoyed many of my brethren Red Sox fans on this site who challenged my opinions fiercely. At least two Red Sox fan posters encouraged me on several occasions to root for the Yankees since I admired the way they ran their team. You have just discredited yourself by accusing me of being a mindless Yankee contrarian. The other Sox fans on this site know that nothing is further from the truth. If you disagree with my opinion that the Yankees have accomplished very little this off-season, go right ahead, but back off your ridiculous assertion in your post.

[a700hitter]

On the same token, a700 has a similar passion for the Red Sox that I believe he lets get in the way of an objective opinion. As a general rule too, he has a mistrust of prospects and an overtrust of name brand guys. He'd trade Hughes in a second for Curt Schilling or Bartolo Colon because of what they've DONE, not necessarily what they CAN DO and that's fine and dandy in the short term, but not a strong long term plan.

 

a700-- I like your passion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating things as I see them.

I do like established players. There's no doubt about that. I hate when I read posts that think it is fine to let our stars walk for sandwich picks. I'd rather get a sandwich. At least I'd have something. Your assertion that I would trade Hughes for Colon or Schilling is an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade the top prospect in the organization for a 40 year old pitcher or a broken down pitcher with a surgically repaired shoulder. I might give up a basket of second tier guys in those deals, but not the blue-chippers. I would however give up a blue-chipper like Hughes plus a basket of second tier guys for Johan Santana. I'd do that in a heart beat, and I think Cashman and Theo also would do it. I usually advocate giving up our best prospects for young stars like Chad Cordero, not old guys. I'm on record as supporting a trade at last year's deadline that would have given up MDC, Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Oswalt-- a young stud.

 

My problem with the reluctance to trading Red Sox prospects is that I really think that the Red Sox organization has few, if any, true blue-chippers. I think they are mostly over-hyped, with the exception of Bard.

[jacksonianmarch]

I do like established players. There's no doubt about that. I hate when I read posts that think it is fine to let our stars walk for sandwich picks. I'd rather get a sandwich. At least I'd have something. Your assertion that I would trade Hughes for Colon or Schilling is an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade the top prospect in the organization for a 40 year old pitcher or a broken down pitcher with a surgically repaired shoulder. I might give up a basket of second tier guys in those deals, but not the blue-chippers. I would however give up a blue-chipper like Hughes plus a basket of second tier guys for Johan Santana. I'd do that in a heart beat, and I think Cashman and Theo also would do it. I usually advocate giving up our best prospects for young stars like Chad Cordero, not old guys. I'm on record as supporting a trade at last year's deadline that would have given up MDC, Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Oswalt-- a young stud.

 

My problem with the reluctance to trading Red Sox prospects is that I really think that the Red Sox organization has few, if any, true blue-chippers. I think they are mostly over-hyped, with the exception of Bard.

 

I will never accept letting a player who can help go for a draft pick. I just dont think that the trash we dealt away is worth what we got. We will not miss a beat without RJ, Wright, and Sheff. Now if we dealt Wang, Mussina, Jeter, etc, then I'd be f***in pissed.

[a700hitter]

It's curious that you have elected to respond to my response to elsrbueno's post, but not to my response to your "Pujols" post.

[jacksonianmarch]

I do like established players. There's no doubt about that. I hate when I read posts that think it is fine to let our stars walk for sandwich picks. I'd rather get a sandwich. At least I'd have something. Your assertion that I would trade Hughes for Colon or Schilling is an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade the top prospect in the organization for a 40 year old pitcher or a broken down pitcher with a surgically repaired shoulder. I might give up a basket of second tier guys in those deals, but not the blue-chippers. I would however give up a blue-chipper like Hughes plus a basket of second tier guys for Johan Santana. I'd do that in a heart beat, and I think Cashman and Theo also would do it. I usually advocate giving up our best prospects for young stars like Chad Cordero, not old guys. I'm on record as supporting a trade at last year's deadline that would have given up MDC, Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Oswalt-- a young stud.

 

My problem with the reluctance to trading Red Sox prospects is that I really think that the Red Sox organization has few, if any, true blue-chippers. I think they are mostly over-hyped, with the exception of Bard.

 

Most players get drafted with hype, get forgotten about and resurface when they get to or above AA. When they get back above AA, they either develped warts in the lower levels or they gain momentum. Tons of prospects with hype flame out in the lower ranks. So once they get to the AA level, there is a relative feeling that they'll make it. If they do well in AA, then even average performance in AAA gives them a look. Guys like Bowden, Buchholz, and Bard will start the yr in A+ ball or even further down (in Bards case). They are the closest pitching prospects the sox have. Buchholz sounds like the real deal as a starter, but he has his doubters. Bowden seems to be defying logic as most scouting reports are mixed on him. Bard projects as a power reliever. Either way, if things go well, Buchholz and Bowden should hit AAA by the start of 2009, with a likely midseason callup. Bard, if he is kept as a starter, will have an ETA of 2010. If he is converted to a reliever, he might be up in 09 or sooner. Either way, the best pitching prospects in the sox system are 2+ years away.

 

The other guy to consider is Lester, but his stock has dropped, by minimal fault of his own. The lack of control and velocity was something to be concerned about, and he'll have to prove it was injury/cancer that made him look rather pedestrian. I for one hope John makes it back and becomes a good starter for the sox. Seems like a good kid, got some s*** luck, and maybe he'll turn it around.

[jacksonianmarch]

No' date=' I'd have a gun in my mouth. I can assure you of that. You can disagree with my opinion about your off-season moves, but don't treat me as some mindless anti-Yankee fan that finds fault with everything Yankee. I hate the Yankees, and I proudly admit that, but Alexander the Great, you have been on this site long enough to know that I have sung Cashman's praises on several occasions. I have gone so far as to say that he runs rings around Theo. I praised Cashman for his trade deadline deals in 2006, and I brutalized the Red Sox FO for throwing in the towel and making no moves. I also praised Cashman for "outmaneuvering" the Red Sox FO with Johnny Damon. I am still annoyed by that whole episode. My opinions in this regard have annoyed many of my brethren Red Sox fans on this site who challenged my opinions fiercely. At least two Red Sox fan posters encouraged me on several occasions to root for the Yankees since I admired the way they ran their team. You have just discredited yourself by accusing me of being a mindless Yankee contrarian. The other Sox fans on this site know that nothing is further from the truth. If you disagree with my opinion that the Yankees have accomplished very little this off-season, go right ahead, but back off your ridiculous assertion in your post.[/quote']

cmon now 700. You're one of the only guys on at night. I find you a good poster, so dont worry about it. If you dont believe in stocking a farm system, then I cannot argue with you. If you do, then I dont get how you can mock the 3 deals we made, dealing 3 players for high end prospects and 2 major league relievers. We deal a guy we were throwing away, a guy who had no position, and a guy who may not throw over 120 innings this yr and his effectiveness would be s*** in ALE.

[a700hitter]

cmon now 700. You're one of the only guys on at night. I find you a good poster' date=' so dont worry about it. If you dont believe in stocking a farm system, then I cannot argue with you. If you do, then I dont get how you can mock the 3 deals we made, dealing 3 players for high end prospects and 2 major league relievers. We deal a guy we were throwing away, a guy who had no position, and a guy who may not throw over 120 innings this yr and his effectiveness would be s*** in ALE.[/quote']As I have posted previously, these moves may bear fruit in 2 or 4 years, but they are just not the types of moves that have made me envious in past years. I don't think they have improved their 2007 team. I think they would have been much more formidable in 2007 if they had kept Sheff and Johnson to go along with Pettitte and they went after Clemens.

[jacksonianmarch]

As I have posted previously' date=' these moves may bear fruit in 2 or 4 years, but they are just not the types of moves that have made me envious in past years. I don't think they have improved their 2007 team. I think they would have been much more formidable in 2007 if they had kept Sheff and Johnson to go along with Pettitte and they went after Clemens.[/quote']

 

You see, nabbing a player in single A may pay off in 2 or 4 yrs. Nabbing pitchers ticketed for AAA and expected to his the majors in the same yr acquired may help in 1-2 yrs or may help immediately in deals.

 

Also, I would take Igawa over RJ simply on durability and age alone. Sheffield had no position. Abreu is better and Sheff was horrible at 1b. RJ was the 4, would have ended the season as the 5 and likely would have been awful for the yr.

 

Overall, the moves did not make us better in 07 most likely, unless Sanchez comes up as a reliever first. But they didnt hurt us either. A 5ERA is easily replaceable.

[TheKilo]

I find it interesting you think Igawa can replace a healthy RJ.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find it interesting you think Igawa can replace a healthy RJ.

 

We dont have a healthy RJ. We wont have a healthy RJ. A healthy RJ was 5 years ago. This one is old, declining, and injured. Igawa can replace THAT one.

[a700hitter]

We dont have a healthy RJ. We wont have a healthy RJ. A healthy RJ was 5 years ago. This one is old' date=' declining, and injured. Igawa can replace THAT one.[/quote']Even in decline and injured, he put up 17 wins a year. Do you expect Igawa to replace that in 2007?

[CrespoBlows]

Even in decline and injured' date=' he put up 17 wins a year. Do you expect Igawa to replace that in 2007?[/quote']

 

Yes.

 

If Igawa gets Randy Johnson's run support numbers, and replicates his ERA, then absolutely.

[a700hitter]

Yes.

 

If Igawa gets Randy Johnson's run support numbers, and replicates his ERA, then absolutely.

Not if he gets the run support on the wrong nights.

[CrespoBlows]

Not if he gets the run support on the wrong nights.

 

If Igawa gets 7.89 runs per game of support, he will, without a freaking doubt, win 17 games. (Unless he's hurt, and this assumes that he will replicate Johnson ERA of 5.00, which I think he will come pretty close to matching)

 

For him not to win 17 games, he'd have to pitch so badly in numerous games, that his ERA would probably be in the Kyle Snyder range.

 

Wins are a pretty poor measurement of a pitcher. I'd take the Unit because of his low WHIP, and high strikeout numbers. I think he's the better bet for 2007. If Johnson came back to New York, he could possibly win 20 games.

[a700hitter]

Wins are a pretty poor measurement of a pitcher. I'd take the Unit because of his low WHIP' date=' and high strikeout numbers. I think he's the better bet for 2007. If Johnson came back to New York, he could possibly win 20 games.[/quote']I agree with this, but I don't agree that Igawa will win 17 games in 2007. If he does, I will be very surprised.

[CrespoBlows]

I agree with this' date=' but I don't agree that Igawa will win 17 games in 2007. If he does, I will be very surprised.[/quote']

 

No, I don't think he will either. I'm assuming that he gets boatloads of runs to back his starts. With a weaker Yankee offense, Igawa is likely not to receive the backing of 20 runs a game, like Johnson had. My guess is, that Igawa is bumped for the rotation when the Yankees insert Phillip Hughes in there. (Him or Pavano, they both suck, so it doesn't really matter)

[riverside sluggers]

Either way' date=' the best pitching prospects in the sox system are 2+ years away.[/quote']

 

There's also this kid called Edgar Martinez, a converted catcher who looks like "El Guapo". he should be up mid-season to September (if not sooner). He's one of the expected callups (Ellsbury, Kottaras, Spann) I am waiting with great interest to see how they do up in the bigs

[jacksonianmarch]

There's also this kid called Edgar Martinez' date=' a converted catcher who looks like "El Guapo". he should be up mid-season to September (if not sooner). He's one of the expected callups (Ellsbury, Kottaras, Spann) I am waiting with great interest to see how they do up in the bigs[/quote']

 

I said their best pitching prospects. The sox top 50 comes out on Monday (I think) on scout.com, I'll let you know who they are.