Report: Red Sox, Matsuzaka agree to deal

[example1]

interesting article, i know its more insight, but its a much different angle

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-mlb_07_gyroball022107&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

So its a pitch that looks like a slider but doesn't break and goes as hard as a fastball. Combined with an actual nasty slider I could see how that would drive hitters nuts. I could also see how, with only limited movement, it would be possible to miss as a fastball or something.

 

The theory itself makes perfect sense and on other sites I've seen I have no doubt in my mind that its possible. You throw a baseball so it moves forward but spins sideways, much like a football. Footballs don't tumble end over end, they stay relatively straight but spin like crazy. Almost all pitches have some front to back or back to front, but I could totally envision someone figuring out how to throw one that just spins like a bullet.

 

That's why I can't stand idiots who just blatently say 'it doesn't exist' (that moron Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio comes to mind) or who mock those who discuss it as being stuck in some fantasy land like we're talking about a Bugs Bunny pitch.

 

Did anyone see that Matsuzaka threw a 103 pitch bullpen session today? Jesus, I think this guy is going to challenge a lot of what Americans consider 'normal' for baseball players.

[mar_022]

i just find it interesting because i remember hearing one physicist saying the football spin wouldn't cause any severe/sharp drop or break...this article's evidence agrees with the physicist's hypothesis

[jacksonianmarch]

the point of it could be that the ball doesnt allow itself to travel far enough to break. But if you have a dirty slider with the exact same spin as a gyro that goes 10mph faster, you will get rid of the batters only ability to recognize slider or gyro. Spin out of the hand is the only chance the hitter has. If the spin is the same, they will be screwed.

[example1]

the point of it could be that the ball doesnt allow itself to travel far enough to break. But if you have a dirty slider with the exact same spin as a gyro that goes 10mph faster' date=' you will get rid of the batters only ability to recognize slider or gyro. Spin out of the hand is the only chance the hitter has. If the spin is the same, they will be screwed.[/quote']

 

Yes, and although the spin would be slightly different between the slider and the 'gyro' it would be virtually indecipherable at 92 mph.

 

If it is true that the action on a true gyro is really no action at all, then I could see why Daisuke would continue to be coy about whether or not he throws it. Even his answer of "should I say it exists" "should I say I throw that ball?" (paraphrasing, sorry) makes sense.

 

I hope this guy is badass enough to have that type of deception. People here were ready to crucify anyone who compared Matsuzaka's stuff to Pedro's, but Schilling himself did it the other day when talking about being able to throw so many different pitches for good strikes at any count with the same arm movement. That wasn't an absurd comparison mechanics/ pitching approach-wise.

[BSN07]

They may throw alot of different pitches for strikes and have control of numerous pitches, but the mechanics are not the same. Matsuzaka is a drop and drive pitcher who mainly pitches out of the over hand arm slot. Pedro is more of a swing pitcher, he rocks to get going and his arm angle is alot closer to side arm then Matsuzakas.

[jacksonianmarch]

before we throw Pedro comparisons out there, lets wait until the kid throws one pitch state side.

[TheKilo]

Same can be said for future ace Philip Hughes.

[jacksonianmarch]

agreed. That is why I have stayed away from trying to predict what he will do. Matsuzaka is special, so is Hughes. We'll see how it shakes out.

 

And I am a bit annoyed at the media for throwing our "Junior Rocket" stuff. The kid is 20 yrs old. I like some of the hype, but come on now. Roger may be the best pitcher "over a career" in baseball history. Talk about lofty friggin expectations. Then Matsuzaka is being compared to Pedro, the best pitcher "over a 4 yr span" in baseball history. Lets chill on these and think about being happy with maybe an injury free Mark Prior or a Jake Peavy style player.

[example1]

before we throw Pedro comparisons out there' date=' lets wait until the kid throws one pitch state side.[/quote']

 

No. I'm not going to put away one of the potential comparisons just because one guys was a HOF and one guy hasn't thrown a MLB pitch yet. I'll comfortably compare Philip Hughes to Mark Prior and I will happily discuss whether or not Matsuzaka is more like Schilling or Pedro (for instance).

 

Given that Schilling himself mentioned Pedro as the most obvious comparison only makes me think its more of a valid comparison. Saying his arsenal is like Pedro's is not some sacreligious comment or attempt to say he IS going to be pedro. However, the K numbers, his ERA/WHIP success his tremendous breaking balls and multiple levels of fastballs makes it a valid comparison.

 

If we are allowed to discuss them in the same breath when discussing salary I see no reason we can't talk about pitches, workout habits, etc., without the holier than thou 'let's not talk about it before he's thrown state side' crap.

[BSN07]

No. I'm not going to put away one of the potential comparisons just because one guys was a HOF and one guy hasn't thrown a MLB pitch yet. I'll comfortably compare Philip Hughes to Mark Prior and I will happily discuss whether or not Matsuzaka is more like Schilling or Pedro (for instance).

 

Given that Schilling himself mentioned Pedro as the most obvious comparison only makes me think its more of a valid comparison. Saying his arsenal is like Pedro's is not some sacreligious comment or attempt to say he IS going to be pedro. However, the K numbers, his ERA/WHIP success his tremendous breaking balls and multiple levels of fastballs makes it a valid comparison.

 

If we are allowed to discuss them in the same breath when discussing salary I see no reason we can't talk about pitches, workout habits, etc., without the holier than thou 'let's not talk about it before he's thrown state side' crap.

 

Fair enough argument...

[jacksonianmarch]

No. I'm not going to put away one of the potential comparisons just because one guys was a HOF and one guy hasn't thrown a MLB pitch yet. I'll comfortably compare Philip Hughes to Mark Prior and I will happily discuss whether or not Matsuzaka is more like Schilling or Pedro (for instance).

 

Given that Schilling himself mentioned Pedro as the most obvious comparison only makes me think its more of a valid comparison. Saying his arsenal is like Pedro's is not some sacreligious comment or attempt to say he IS going to be pedro. However, the K numbers, his ERA/WHIP success his tremendous breaking balls and multiple levels of fastballs makes it a valid comparison.

 

If we are allowed to discuss them in the same breath when discussing salary I see no reason we can't talk about pitches, workout habits, etc., without the holier than thou 'let's not talk about it before he's thrown state side' crap.

 

 

it just primes you for a letdown. Pedro is the best pitcher in a 4yr stretch in baseball history. Ever, as in nobody has walked this planet that was better than him. Clemens is considered to be the best pitcher of all time over a career. EVER, as in nobody has walked the planet who was better than them. Yeah, I heard what Schilling said (Matsuzaka reminds me of Pedro) and I heard what Giambi said (this kid's a young Rocket). For right now, both havent thrown one pitch and to put them up to those expectations is something crazy. Matsuzaka is a small framed, foreign player with a wide arsenal, a power heater and solid control. Hughes is a big bodied power pitcher with a wide arsenal, a power heater and solid control. Thats about it right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

Both with the potential to finish the yr as the team's aces btw.

[BSN07]

Comparisons are going to happen no matter what anyone says or does, you just have to take them with a grain of salt. When people start the comparisons I look at it like this. Whoever there being compared to is the ceiling for there talent. I don´t expect them to be as good or better but a step below, that way if they blow they let down isn´t as bad.

 

We all like to think we have the next Pedro or the next Rocket. If Matsuzaka can win 15 plus games a year and keep his ERA under 4 I think that would be an acomplishment in todays AL East, same goes for Hughes too.

[jacksonianmarch]

for Hughes, the accomplishment will be the development of the changeup and the incorporation of it into his every day arsenal. That is my goal for him this yr, that and to stay healthy. Without the change he is a 4 pitch pitcher, if you count a 4 seamer and a 2 seamer separately. With it, he will have multiple looks that will bode well for his future.

[adam123]

Comparisons are going to happen no matter what anyone says or does, you just have to take them with a grain of salt. When people start the comparisons I look at it like this. Whoever there being compared to is the ceiling for there talent. I don?t expect them to be as good or better but a step below, that way if they blow they let down isn?t as bad.

 

We all like to think we have the next Pedro or the next Rocket. If Matsuzaka can win 15 plus games a year and keep his ERA under 4 I think that would be an acomplishment in todays AL East, same goes for Hughes too.

 

good quotes bro .. i have been seeing you post good ones man glad to know people in other parts or worldlove red sox .

[adam123]

i think dmat will be good just lil worried about pitch count and sholder problems .. but man 103 pitches thats impressive ..

[arbitrary]

ecspecially 103 pitches with the crazy heavier ball.

[adam123]

man if he has that kinda stmina he should be all right ..

[example1]

In his first batting practice session apparently Matsuzaka was quite impressive. I haven't seen many clips of it, but here is a youtube entry that has the best video I've seen:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ6d9DXHGKM

 

At the end I'm pretty sure there's the slider that Jacoby Ellsbury swung and missed by 6 inches. It looked really nasty.

[TGov]

his slider and his 2-seamer looks pretty damn nasty...