Who's on Second?

[jacksonianmarch]

What good is another .700 OPS hitter going to do if half the lineup is doing that? Especially one that is a statue in the field.

 

I find OPS in the terms of Loretta kinda detracting. The guy never hit for extra bases, but he had a respectable average, made contact a whole lot, and walked a fair share. If he was in your 9 hole, you'd be no worse for wear.

[seabeachfred]

Jackson, you use a lot of good logic behind your argument and under normal circumstances it could hold up real well. In this case it does not. Here's why. When the Yankees brought up Cano, Torre was very receptive to it and felt that Womack was just a waste of money and here he had a young prospect who could play a long time for the Yankees. Right so far? The problem with your argument in this case in our manager. You give Francona a veteran 2B on his roster and he will cling to him for dear life. He has repeatedly done this in his mgng career both in Philly and in Boston, his most recent example with the terribly slumping Millar in '05 when he had an eager Kevin Youkalis ready for a shot in the Bigs. Instead the guy kept getting shuffled back and forth to Pawtucket and hitting well each time down there, but never given a shot while Millar kept stumbling badly. No, my friend, we don't want that with Pedroia. He's ready, willing and able and we want him to get his chance to prove it.

[example1]

The health of the overall lineup will determine how much is needed out of Pedroia. If...Then the sox are in deep deep trouble. Having a vet like Loretta who at the very least reached base' date=' made contact, and was a potential 2 hitter likely hitting in the 9 hole, could really make a difference not only on the sox short term, but could give a mentor to the kid long term. [/quote']

 

Look. The sox had Loretta last year. Their entire team either shat the bed or got injured and his being a 'veteran presence' in the lineup meant nothing. The health of the overall lineup will determine how much success this team will have, not how much will be needed out of Pedroia.

 

You're right, he's not Soriano and he's not Vizquel. He's Pedroia. NOBODY is soriano. Offensively there may never have been a "Second baseman" (I use the term lightly with Soriano now) with his offensive tools.

 

If David Eckstein is who this guy is that's great, but I think that's undershooting his potential a bit. The best reason to compare them is their size, but that's about it. Eckstein is a good player, a good guy to have on your team. But Eckstein had as many HRs last year as Pedroia did (2). Somehow, despite 500 ABs Eckstein had only 18 doubles, while in 89 ABs Pedroia had 4. I think that Pedroia, in fenway for half his games, will put up Youkilis type offensive numbers and will play a more than adequate 2B defensively. People can legitimately complain that Youkilis type numbers from a 1B might be scarry, but they should also agree that that would be a VERY productive numbers from a 2B.

[Peters34]

:thumbsup: Some of Pedroia states for good measure

Hitting Stats: Next Stats >>

 

SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

2006 Boston Red Sox 31 89 5 17 4 0 2 7 27 7 7 0 1 .258 .303 .191

 

Career Totals 31 89 5 17 4 0 2 7 27 7 7 0 1 .258 .303 .191

 

 

 

 

 

Fielding Stats:

 

SEASON TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT

2006 Boston Red Sox 2B 27 19 172.0 121 45 73 3 17 --- --- --- 6.17 .975

2006 Boston Red Sox SS 6 5 41.0 21 7 13 1 4 --- --- --- 4.39 .952

 

Career Totals 33 24 213.0 142 52 86 4 21 --- --- --- 5.83 .972

 

 

red sox.com

[Cityofchampions33]

You give Francona a veteran 2B on his roster and he will cling to him for dear life.

 

Agreed, and this fact alone worries me some. I mean I hope he'll give Pedroia a fair chance, because I'm expectign him to have an unneeded short leash on Pedroia and will yank him very soon if Pedroia doesn't do decently. I mean Francona played Cora too mcuh last year, and that's when we had the stable presence of Loretta at 2nd.

[seabeachfred]

If Theo and the front office want Pedroia to play second they have to make it very clear to Francona that there is to be no backsliding here. I do believe that Tito loves Cora but knows he is not suited to be a regular and his best days are behind him. Used as a utility man he does well but whenever he plays for an extended period of time his game tails off terribly as it did last season. What worries me is if the Coma man convinces Epstein to sign a veteran second baseman. If that happens another good prospect from our supposed improved farm system is set out to pasture and screwed up. It must not happen.

[example1]

Someone may have linked this elsewhere, but here's a good article on Pedroia:

 

http://www.eagletribune.com/pusports/local_story_039120300?keyword=secondarystory+page=1

 

Apparently he's lost 23 lbs from this time last year and is training at API with guys like Youkilis, Carl Craword, and Brandon Wood.

[jacksonianmarch]

not sure thats a good thing. He was pretty skinny to begin with, so his power may suffer. But losing some lbs is a good way to get a bit faster.

[Jeff04]

not sure thats a good thing. He was pretty skinny to begin with' date=' so his power may suffer. But losing some lbs is a good way to get a bit faster.[/quote']

 

I like his attitude, and anyway he hardly has any power now so i don't think its going to be that big of deal. Hopefully like he says it will help him for the stretch run

[example1]

not sure thats a good thing. He was pretty skinny to begin with' date=' so his power may suffer. But losing some lbs is a good way to get a bit faster.[/quote']

 

I think that weight is more appropriate for someone his size. I imagine he slimmed down considerably and it will certainly help with his speed.

 

EDIT: Last year he apparently went to camp at about 195. This year, if he's really in the mid 170's he's built like Brian Roberts. I always thought he had a good 2B build. Roberts, incidently, is listed as 5-9, 175. Pedroia is listed as 5-9, 180 (ESPN) but I don't put it past him that he weighed 195; he was looking a little pudgy.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think that weight is more appropriate for someone his size. I imagine he slimmed down considerably and it will certainly help with his speed.

 

if that is the game he wants to improve, then good for him.

[ORS]

not sure thats a good thing. He was pretty skinny to begin with' date=' so his power may suffer. But losing some lbs is a good way to get a bit faster.[/quote']

Not last year. The most common remark around ST last year about was that he looked a little pudgy. Of course, you aren't interested in the facts, just the spin.

[example1]

I think his defense is where he can shine the most, and his ability to get to balls is huge in that regard. Sox fans love good defense, look at Pokey Reese and O-Cab and Gonzo; none of these guys were great offensively but they played steller D.

 

He is likely confident that he can get on at a .350 clip, add to that great D and he can earn himself the starting job for a long, long time.

[example1]

I'm just psyched that he is taking this so seriously. I like this line:

 

"I wanted to make sure that wouldn't happen (again), so I killed myself. I'm 100-percent healthy now and I can't wait for the opportunity."

 

It doesn't surprise me at all that Youkilis and Pedroia were there working their asses off together. Both of them are on the cusp of being tremendous MLB ball players, with their bodies being one of the main things holding them back. I think we'll see a lot out of them both this season and nobody will want to move Youkilis by the end of the season (with Lowell leaving).

[jacksonianmarch]

Not last year. The most common remark around ST last year about was that he looked a little pudgy. Of course' date=' you aren't interested in the facts, just the spin.[/quote']

 

He looked pretty thin on the field. Maybe he lost some weight as the season progressed. Either way, he is working hard and that is what matters. His status will be dissected until we get sick.

[TheKilo]

I take shits bigger than Dustin Pedroia.

 

 

I kid...I'd like to see what he can bring to the table this year.

[a700hitter]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=183604

 

This has to help. He needs to be fit. A short, fat second baseman with no pop and limitet skills was not going to cut it. Carrying less weight should help him with his range and speed.

[a700hitter]

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/02/25/second_chance/

 

This article has a good bit of discussion about Pedroia's big swing. No one likes it. Jim Rice was the first critic of his swing last year. I am concerned that no one has worked with him to adjust his swing. Big swings are exploited by Major League pitchers. I don't know what he thinks he's doing. He's a midget. He'll hit maybe 10 HRs. They need him to have productive at bats and move runners along.

[Papelbon58]

Mark Bellhorn Jr !!!!!!!

[TedWilliams101]

O god, don't say that... We'll, if he turns out to be a Marky mark Jr, maybe he'll also help us win a world series with clutch homers against the Yanks in the playoffs....

[TheKilo]

It's funny how quickly people forget how important Mark Bellhorn was.

[BSN07]

He was the man in 04, but most remeber how s***** he was in 05.

[a700hitter]

Mark Bellhorn Jr !!!!!!!

Bellhorn wasn't a midget, and when he made contact he had legit pop.

[seabeachfred]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=183604

 

This has to help. He needs to be fit. A short, fat second baseman with no pop and limitet skills was not going to cut it. Carrying less weight should help him with his range and speed.

 

First of all 700, the guy does NOT have limited skill. He has starred every place he has played and at Arizona State he was one of the two or three best hitters in the nation. As far as no pop, I think you might ask Randy Johnson about that as he almost took him out of the yard last year. Yes, he was a little overweight but, then again, the brass told him to put some pounds on. It was terrible advice but as a minor league trying to break in he had to comply with what he was asked. I think too many of you are underestimating this kid. Again, he has performed outstandingly every place he has played. Even if he gets off to a slow start the first month, by the end of the season he will be vieing for the AL Rookie of the Year. Yes, I hold Dustin with that high regard. :D :D

[seabeachfred]

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/02/25/second_chance/

 

This article has a good bit of discussion about Pedroia's big swing. No one likes it. Jim Rice was the first critic of his swing last year. I am concerned that no one has worked with him to adjust his swing. Big swings are exploited by Major League pitchers. I don't know what he thinks he's doing. He's a midget. He'll hit maybe 10 HRs. They need him to have productive at bats and move runners along.

 

You are right 700; Major League pitchers can easily exploit batters who take humungous swings, but it is much easier to tone a swinger like that down than it is to make a wimpy swinger more aggressive. Dustin went to college, has always been considered a heady ballplayers. We will adjust. Remember, he got no chance to work on his swing last ST because he hurt his shoulder on the first day and missed the whole camp. He ought to come out of ST much more finely tuned.

[seabeachfred]

O god' date=' don't say that... We'll, if he turns out to be a Marky mark Jr, maybe he'll also help us win a world series with clutch homers against the Yanks in the playoffs....[/quote']

 

Ted, what people forget and what we all should remember is how Mark Bellhorn forced Pokey Reese to the bench in 2004 with some damn good clutch hitting. I recall he drove in around 80 runs, clouted about 17 homers, and most of his hits were in the clutch. No gazelle at second base, he, nevertheless, played the position well and got some big hits for us in the Playoffs and WS when it counted.

 

Mark, though was a strange bird. The guy struck out way too much, but was was wierd was the fact that he seemed to hit better when they batted him in the No. 2 position. I cannot for the life of me tell you why a guy with a penchant for striking out could just seem to adjust well batting in a spot where strikeouts are frowned upon.

 

I remember in June of 2005 when after batting down in the order in what turned out to be his sad swan song in Boston, Francona put him in the second spot for only the second or third time that year and he responded with three for four and about five RBI's against the Phillies. He did so well there that our genius manager crapcanned the move and dropped him back down and soon out of the Sox lineup.:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

[TGov]

It says Pedroia has a good idea of the strike zone, I bet if he adjust to a smaller swing he can hit more line drives/grounders than pop ups... at least he's make contacting, you can work with contact... maybe Wily Mo and Pedroia should talk... haha...

[seabeachfred]

It says Pedroia has a good idea of the strike zone' date=' I bet if he adjust to a smaller swing he can hit more line drives/grounders than pop ups... at least he's make contacting, you can work with contact... maybe Wily Mo and Pedroia should talk... haha...[/quote']

 

Please TGov, no no---we don't want Pedroia talking to Pena. Dustin has his work cut out for him this year without having to be influenced by the strikeout machine.

 

Having said that, nothing would please me more to see Pena make more consistent contact at the plate and not see my blood pressure shoot skyward everytime a fly ball goes out in his direction.

[TGov]

Having said that, nothing would please me more to see Pena make more consistent contact at the plate and not see my blood pressure shoot skyward everytime a fly ball goes out in his direction.

 

let's have Ortiz play for Wily Mo and Wily Mo DH, haha... that would be just plain horrible...

[GoSoxGo1724632222]

Bellhorn wasn't a midget' date=' and when he made contact he had legit pop.[/quote']

 

He did have 30 HR for the Cubs.

 

Belhorn wasnt bad but his strike out ratio didnt fit the OB% happy front office and defensively was well not good IMO.