Tampering charges possible against Red Sox

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/08/sports/baseball/08chass.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

 

the dodgers dont like the way the drew case went down. It looks like there will be an investigation.

[Cityofchampions33]

Doesn't seem like there's much proff, just bad notions, and Boras being Boras.

[jacksonianmarch]

bad notions? There is no way Boras knew he was getting into such a great market at the time Drew opted out.

[Linda]

It's about time.

[Linda]

bad notions? There is no way Boras knew he was getting into such a great market at the time Drew opted out.

 

No proof? He was quoted i the local paper less than a week before he opted out as saying that he loved it here and was looking forward to the next season.

 

Also, as Jacksonian stated, there is no way at the time that Boras could have known the market.

 

I thought it was interesting how Boras said Drew was the only available CF.

 

Drew isn't even a CF. And after he said that, Pierre and Dave Roberts were signed.

[YazsTripleCrown]

I sure hope that's not true. It would be bad for all of baseball. They don't need another scandle.

[jacksonianmarch]

if found guilty, the sox would lose some draft picks and be fined. It wont be anything too earth shaking anyways.

[YazsTripleCrown]

Could they null the deal? I sure hope not.

[TedWilliams101]

I disagree. I think you could see that the market was going to be extremely expensive this year. Maybe not to the point it has turned out to be, but I could see why Boras would want Drew to test the free agent market. I honestly don't think the sox "tampered" with him.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

honestly, as pissed off as Ned is at Boras, (see Ned going out of his way not to deal with ANY of Boras' clients this offseason) in the end, we got rid of someone who didnt want to be here, and have another reason not to deal with him or his clients in the future...win-win for the dodgers...which is why i don't think a complaint will be made.

[jacksonianmarch]

I disagree. I think you could see that the market was going to be extremely expensive this year. Maybe not to the point it has turned out to be' date=' but I could see why Boras would want Drew to test the free agent market. I honestly don't think the sox "tampered" with him.[/quote']

 

NOBODY could predict the market unless they had an idea. Even at the end of the yr people were lamenting the Drew deal he signed 2 yrs ago, then he walked out. Analysts were saying that he was walking away from millions. Turned out, he got a huge deal. Boras is smart, but there is also one thing he doesnt do, and that is take chances when top money is already being offered for a long time. He knew, proving it will be the issue.

[example1]

At what point does a team having extreme interest in a player in previous seasons become "tampering" in another season? If Boras knew that the Sox coveted Drew in previous seasons, and he knew that they needed a RF, then it seems only logical to say "JD, I can get the Red Sox to pay more than 11m a season for your services" without any conversation between the Sox and Boras having taken place in the few weeks before JD left the Dodgers. The Sox had discussed Drew with Boras very recently (2 seasons ago, I believe). It certainly doesn't seem weird to me that Boras could assume they would want him. The guy is an OBP machine, he's a good fielder. Except for the injuries ANYBODY could have told you that this guy is the perfect Red Sox hitter. It doesn't take a conspiracy.

 

All the Sox had to say to Boras sometime in, say, August was "we're going to improve our team this offseason" and that's all Boras would need to know that JD would get the current going rate for a middle of the order OF.

[a700hitter]

NOBODY could predict the market unless they had an idea. Even at the end of the yr people were lamenting the Drew deal he signed 2 yrs ago' date=' then he walked out. Analysts were saying that he was walking away from millions. Turned out, he got a huge deal. Boras is smart, but there is also one thing he doesnt do, and that is take chances when top money is already being offered for a long time. He knew, proving it will be the issue.[/quote']Theo liked Drew and wanted to sign him two years ago if he had traded Manny. This was no secret. In 2006, the Sox were really bad in the 5 hole. Trot Nixon was being allowed to walk. WMP clearly can't play RF in Fenway, and the Red Sox looked like they were going to move Manny. Duh? Why wouldn't Theo still want him? Did Boras have to be a mind reader? If nothing else, he had to think he could get an extension.

[jacksonianmarch]

At what point does a team having extreme interest in a player in previous seasons become "tampering" in another season? If Boras knew that the Sox coveted Drew in previous seasons' date=' and he knew that they needed a RF, then it seems only logical to say "JD, I can get the Red Sox to pay more than 11m a season for your services" without any conversation between the Sox and Boras having taken place. It certainly doesn't seem weird to me. The guy is an OBP machine, he's a good fielder. Except for the injuries ANYBODY could have told you that this guy is the perfect Red Sox hitter. It doesn't take a conspiracy.[/quote']

 

but what told him that he could get more than 3yrs 33mil on the open market before all these crazy deals went down?

[a700hitter]

but what told him that he could get more than 3yrs 33mil on the open market before all these crazy deals went down?

...and what would make him think he could buy out the Seibu Lions and get more for Matsuzaka from the Yankees? Maybe this will work to the Red Sox benefit, because Boras will have to watch himself with the Matsuzaka deal.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

yes, but like jacksonian said, no one could have predicted the market where medicore players were going to get more than 10-mil per, and for a guy coming off his first relatively injury-free and slightly above average production, you're gonna tell me he knew he was gonna get better than the 5 year 55 mil he signed for!? love or hate him, one thing boras isn't is stupid... he'll hedge his bets however way he can... your gonna tell me next that on a leap of faith he knew he could get 70 mil for drew where 2 years ago boston couldnt afford 55 mil that he got from the dodgers? and this is on top of still conducting negotiations for matsuzaka and possibly gagne!

[a700hitter]

yes' date=' but like jacksonian said, no one could have predicted the market where medicore players were going to get more than 10-mil per, and for a guy coming off his first relatively injury-free and slightly above average production, you're gonna tell me he knew he was gonna get better than the 5 year 55 mil he signed for!? love or hate him, one thing boras isn't is stupid... he'll hedge his bets however way he can... your gonna tell me next that on a leap of faith he knew he could get 70 mil for drew where 2 years ago boston couldnt afford 55 mil that he got from the dodgers? and this is on top of still conducting negotiations for matsuzaka and possibly gagne! [/quote']I think he knew that he was a good fit for the Red Sox and that the FO liked him, and that after 2006 they were going to be aggressive in the market, and last but not least he knew that MLB made $1 billion more than they had forecast. Nothing will happen here, but Boras will have to watch his step for a while.

[example1]

but what told him that he could get more than 3yrs 33mil on the open market before all these crazy deals went down?

 

The change in the collective bargaining agreement forcing smaller market teams to spend their money on baseball rather than lining the owners pockets? Just a guess.

 

Perhaps more concrete is the way of evaluating value in the first place. If value is seen (as I've written about in past posts, and as mentioned in baseball between the numbers) as different depending on the team that is spending the money, then a lot of what has happened ths year makes sense. the teams that have spent the most on players are those who are closest to being "over the hump" in terms of playoff contention. the goal is to make the playoffs, winning the WS is an on the field goal, but I don't think it is a realistic thing for any team to aim at at this point in the season.

 

So, the teams that I have seen spending the most (Dodgers, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox) are all likely planning on spending to the point where they have added enough wins to get into the 93+ wins category (with luck, health, etc., of course). The value for a player like Soriano added onto a lineup with Lee and Ramirez is considerably more than it is for a player like Soriano added to the Royals (he might bring them from 72 wins to 76, no increased profit). If Boras were smart enough to look at the needs of the upper-middle class teams--in terms of current mlb talent, last year's record and ability to spend--(which he is) and if he believed that these large market teams acted like most large market teams a few players away from the playoffs would be expected to behave (which they did), then its not difficult to predict that there would be an up-swing of $$ paid to even marginal FA's.

 

Despite baseball's reputation for having uneven payrolls and supposedly talent, there are a lot of teams between the .500 and .560 win% who are capable of spending money to contend. Texas, seattle, San Diego, St. Louis, Houston, Detroit, both Chicagos, Boston, both New Yorks, etc., the list of non contending teams is much smaller than the list of contending teams. In an environment like that, with a basic understanding of supply and demand it isn't impossible to predict that JD Drew could get more than 11 million a year. ESPECIALLY after a largely healthy season.

 

This guy was a former #2 and #5 overall pick in 97 and 98. His talent is not the question here. If he's healthy he's worth more than 11m in today's game.

[jacksonianmarch]

overall, I think there is no doubt there was tampering, but I think it happens a whole lot more than we are aware. I think it will be very hard to get solid evidence and if there is solid evidence, it wont impact the 07 sox, aside from a stiff fine and compensation going to the dodgers (potentially a large draft pick bushel).

[a700hitter]

overall' date=' I think there is no doubt there was tampering, but I think it happens a whole lot more than we are aware. I think it will be very hard to get solid evidence and if there is solid evidence, it wont impact the 07 sox, aside from a stiff fine and compensation going to the dodgers (potentially a large draft pick bushel).[/quote']If no one could predict the market, why would the Red Sox have been able to predict the market. The Red Sox did not creat the market. The market was created by the signing of Soriano and Sheffield, etc. Drew signed late in the process. Why would the Red Sox offer a huge contract to Drew on the Q-T before the market was established? It makes no sense at all, that the Red Sox would have known more than everyone else about the market.

[example1]

I think there is doubt there was tampering. I'm sure Boras is good at skewing the lines between tampering and not, but this guy is EVERYBODY'S agent. He gets offers all the time for his FA's and he is well aware of the CURRENT value of most of his players, regardless of their signed value.

 

haven't you ever wondered how Boras can possibly not have conflicts of interest in his dealings? I certainly have. I see it as very reasonable to assume that Boras was informed about the Sox willingness to go hard after JD thanks to discussions he heard about involving trades for Drew, inquring about his availability when he was last a FA, his high OBP and, not to be underestimated, Boston's enormous media and frenzied fan base's quest for rumors.

 

 

Put simply:

Boras knows the Sox like Drew.

 

Boras knows the Sox fans are unhappy.

 

Boras knows the Sox have money.

 

Boras knows the Sox have a hole in RF.

 

Boras knows the Sox like OBP.

 

Boras knows JD has an unbelievable OBP.

 

Boras knows JD will get more than 11m a year.

[a700hitter]

Maybe the FO will plead guilty to tampering and give Hinske to the Dodgers.

[example1]

Maybe the FO will plead guilty to tampering and give Hinske to the Dodgers.

 

 

Maybe the front office will continue wrapping up their f***ing deals in their incestious relations with Mr. Boras. Get Matsuzaka signed then never deal with that guy again. :thumbdown Sick of Boras :thumbdown

[jacksonianmarch]

If no one could predict the market' date=' why would the Red Sox have been able to predict the market. The Red Sox did not creat the market. The market was created by the signing of Soriano and Sheffield, etc. Drew signed late in the process. Why would the Red Sox offer a huge contract to Drew on the Q-T before the market was established? It makes no sense at all, that the Red Sox would have known more than everyone else about the market.[/quote']

 

that is a big crock of s***. EVERYONE was surpised when Sheff was signed to 14mil. The red sox were not counting on that and the only team who could have predicted that was detroit. That was the first domino. Once Mathews signed, it was official. There is not a soul in the world who would have thought the market would go this crazy and at the time, Drew's original deal was considered exorbitant. Boras is a VERY smart ******* and he is very money conscious. He doesnt care if he signs his client to the Bangladesh Cannibals for god sakes so long as the money is sound. There is no way he would leave a deal that many considered ludicrous to begin with unless he was essentially guaranteed a bigger payday. He does not gamble, he does not have to. Every move is calculated, every decision meticulously researched. A month ago, NOBODY thought Drew would opt out because NOBODY thought he would get a sweeter deal than 11 mil per. Boras is either a psychic (which he obviously is not) or someone tipped him off. Personally, I dont care. This happens all the time, but this time there is a few smoking guns left behind. First of all, Drew said he was happy in LA. Second, he said he would not opt out. Then, miraculously, after Cora was resigned, Drew has a change of heart. Something went amiss.

[example1]

Boras is either a psychic (which he obviously is not) or someone tipped him off. Personally' date=' I dont care. This happens all the time, but this time there is a few smoking guns left behind. First of all, Drew said he was happy in LA. Second, he said he would not opt out. Then, miraculously, after Cora was resigned, Drew has a change of heart. Something went amiss.[/quote']

 

So, your "two smoking guns" are press statements made by a player that he wants to stay with his current team? Your proof is that he said he liked it in LA?

 

Who could have possibly forseen such things? Well, how about JD Drew and Scott Boras, who PUT THE CLAUSE IN THE CONTRACT 2 YEARS AGO. If they didn't see it as a real possibility then WHY HAVE THAT CLAUSE?

 

Again, you don't think Boras thought to himself in 2004 "Hmmm, Trot Nixon will be done in boston after 06. I wonder if it would do JD any good to have the option of backing out?"

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

i agree that he straddles the tampering line but isnt dumb enough to get caught red handed...so it becomes a topic for speculation....the only other reason i can think of for having drew opt out is that next year's FA group will be better than this year (Wells & Jones off the top of my head) and no way he get a contract close to what they will get...might as well take advantage of the limited supply & huge demand.

[YazsTripleCrown]

Something is fishy. Sounds like a woman. One min happy the next she does something totally opposite.

[Ray10]

Ok wow people are really making too big of a deal out of this. I really don't see how the Sox could have tampered with anything at all considering the Sox didn't know the market themselves. And who's to say J.D Drew just didn't want to play in Los Angeles anymore so he decided to leave. There was a reason that he had the opt out option in his contract. Honestly people need to stop crying. It can't be that bad if L.A didn't come right out and make a complaint to the commish when the Sox signed Drew. And it even if the Sox did talk to him the fact is he had an OPT OUT OPTION in his contract which means he can leave whenever he wants and if the money is better somewhere else then why is it wrong for him to go there. Honestly people you are just going to see there is no tampering and this is all just a huge waste of time.

[TedWilliams101]

I really don't think its a big deal if some money is thrown around between Matsuzaka, the Lions, and the Red Sox. If they sign Matsuzaka, then the lions pay Matsuzaka some money just out of the kindness of their heart, then give the red sox some money for some business moves, I'd be just fine.

[example1]

I really don't think its a big deal if some money is thrown around between Matsuzaka' date=' the Lions, and the Red Sox. If they sign Matsuzaka, then the lions pay Matsuzaka some money just out of the kindness of their heart, then give the red sox some money for some business moves, I'd be just fine.[/quote']

 

Not with the Commish's office.