Just for fun...Theo for Cashman?

[Jayhawk Bill]

Theo Epstein has never had the highest-paid team in his division, and he's not yet failed to reach the postseason in any year where he was the GM through the preceding winter.

 

Brian Cashman has had an extraordinary advantage in payroll and has taken best advantage of it. He also seems to have been exceptionally lucky in deadline trades since 2005, unless there's an external factor working beyond simply payroll.

 

Neither is a bad GM, but Theo has been getting way more wins per payroll dollar year-for-year than Cashman, and, again, Theo has made the ALDS each year except when they screwed up his team while he was on hiatus.

[Gom]

Kilo, I never said he hadn't done well. There was a time Cashman did well too. I'm just not a fan of either the last two years.

[yankees228]

Theo Epstein has never had the highest-paid team in his division, and he's not yet failed to reach the postseason in any year where he was the GM through the preceding winter.

 

Brian Cashman has had an extraordinary advantage in payroll and has taken best advantage of it. He also seems to have been exceptionally lucky in deadline trades since 2005, unless there's an external factor working beyond simply payroll.

 

Neither is a bad GM, but Theo has been getting way more wins per payroll dollar year-for-year than Cashman, and, again, Theo has made the ALDS each year except when they screwed up his team while he was on hiatus.

 

It would also be worth mentioning (even though I'm sure everyone is aware) that the Yankees have made the playoffs every year in which Cashman was the general manager, although this year could be different.

[Jayhawk Bill]

It would also be worth mentioning (even though I'm sure everyone is aware) that the Yankees have made the playoffs every year in which Cashman was the general manager' date=' although this year could be different.[/quote']

 

Yes, but he inherited a team that made the ALDS in 1997 when he took over in 1998, a team just one year removed from a 1996 World Championship. Theo inherited a team that hadn't made the ALDS three years running and that hadn't won a World Series for a few years longer.

 

Let's see how the two have done from 2003-2008:

 

[table]Year | Yankees Payroll | Red Sox Payroll | Marginal Payroll | Yankees Wins | Red Sox Wins | Marginal Wins | MP/MW

2008 | $209,081,577 | $133,390,035 | $75,691,542 | 70 | 75 | -5 | N/A

2007 | $189,639,045 | $143,026,214 | $46,612,831 | 94 | 96 | -2 | N/A

2006 | $194,663,079 | $120,099,824 | $74,563,255 | 97 | 86 | 11 | $6,778,477.73

2005 | $208,306,817 | $123,505,125 | $84,801,692 | 95 | 95 | 0 | N/A

2004 | $184,193,950 | $127,298,500 | $56,895,450 | 101 | 98 | 3 | $18,965,150.00

2003 | $152,749,814 | $99,946,500 | $52,803,314 | 101 | 95 | 6 | $8,800,552.33 [/table]

 

In three out of six years, the Yankees have won more games than the Red Sox. Here's how much more Opening Day payroll they had for each extra win, each of those three years:

 

[table]Year | MP/MW

2003 | $8,800,552.33

2004 | $18,965,150.00

2006 | $6,778,477.73 [/table]

 

Edit: For a benchmark, total MLB payroll divided by total MLB wins was $1,115,750.86 in 2007.

 

Yes, the Yankees were better three of six years, but it took them an extraordinary amount of money for each extra win. The other three years, the Yankees spent between $46,612,831 and $84,801,692 more than the Red Sox and they failed to win a single extra game, despite sharing an AL East schedule.

 

I really don't disrespect Brian Cashman at all--I think that he'll be remembered someday as an excellent GM. I merely consider Theo Epstein better than that.

 

 

Payroll figures from Cot's Contracts.

[VA Sox Fan]

I would trade Cashman for Steve Phillips

 

Theo ROCKS! 2 WS ROCKS!

[jmcc]

Yes, there is the main difference. What Cashman inherited, Theo didn't.

[Gom]

Not only that, but the end result so far is immeasurably better. Any one who thinks Cashman is an exellent GM is an idiot and knows nothing about baseball.

[yankees228]

JHB...I also consider Epstein to be the better GM.

 

Also, I know that you only looked at what Cashman has done from 2003 on because that is when Theo took over the Red Sox, but I think it is also important to check what Cashman did prior to that. I know the comparison can only begin in 2003, but for the sake of just analyzing Cashman, lets go back to 1998 - 2002...

 

I understand that a large part of those championship teams were developed prior to 1998, but Cashman acquired some significant players as well.

 

He was able to acquire Chuck Knoblauch almost immediately after taking over as GM, a trade that Bob Watson was unable to complete during his two years as GM.

 

He traded for Roger Clemens.

 

He didn't trade Andy Pettitte, even though there was pressure on him to do so.

 

He acquired David Wells (1997).

 

He signed El Duque.

 

He signed Mike Mussina.

 

Obviously we don't know that all of these moves were made because of him, but considering we're giving Epstein credit for the players the Red Sox acquired we might as well do the same for Cashman.

[yankees228]

And Gom, I know you love Stick Michael, but he was famous for refusing to trade some of his younger players and his prospects to teams for established Major Leaguers. It worked out, so you think he did a great job, but your opinion might have been vastly different of him at the time.

[Jayhawk Bill]

I really don't disrespect Brian Cashman at all--I think that he'll be remembered someday as an excellent GM. I merely consider Theo Epstein better than that.

Any one who thinks Cashman is an exellent GM is an idiot and knows nothing about baseball.

 

Hmmm...rather than merely disagreeing with the point, Gom goes for the full-bore personal insult.

 

OK...

 

I consider Cashman an excellent GM. I consider Theo to be better. I consider anybody who spells the word "excellent" without using the letter "c" to be an idiot who knows nothing about information communicated through the English language, including information regarding the business of Major League Baseball.

 

Boy, this is really constructive. I laid low, Gom, you ********. You cast the first insult. Flame war back on.

 

I'd trade either of them for a 14 year old Vietnamese hooker' date=' though. Female, preferably.[/quote']

 

As an aside, does your employer know that you publicly proclaim your desire for 14-year-old hookers here on Talksox?

[VA Sox Fan]

Hmmm...rather than merely disagreeing with the point, Gom goes for the full-bore personal insult.

 

OK...

 

I consider Cashman an excellent GM. I consider Theo to be better. I consider anybody who spells the word "excellent" without using the letter "c" to be an idiot who knows nothing about information communicated through the English language, including information regarding the business of Major League Baseball.

 

Boy, this is really constructive. I laid low, Gom, you ********. You cast the first insult. Flame war back on.

 

 

 

As an aside, does your employer know that you publicly proclaim your desire for 14-year-old hookers here on Talksox?

 

 

 

 

:lol: