Jaret Wright traded to the O's

[a700hitter]

I wonder how thrilled you were about having Jon Lester come up to the team (prior to his leukemia' date=' good luck kid). Or with having Anibal in your system. Or with having Papelbon come up to the bigs. This kid is on their level of prospects.[/quote']I'll tell you how thrilled I was about Lester. Many on these boards remember my criticism of Lester as not being ML ready after being disappointed in his velocity, command and stuff when I saw him at Spring Training. Plus, none of those guys cost us our #4 hitter. I would not be too thrilled about that.

[schillingouttheks]

I'll tell you how thrilled I was about Lester. Many on these boards remember my criticism of Lester as not being ML ready after being disappointed in his velocity' date=' command and stuff when I saw him at Spring Training. Plus, none of those guys cost us our #4 hitter. I would not be too thrilled about that.[/quote']

 

I'll back you on that one. You did say you were disappointed when you saw him in March.

 

This is terrible...so brace yourself and don't get your panties in a bunch, but I remember my friend dropped Lester from his fantasy team shortly after he was diagnosed with cancer. The next day he said to me... "Dude, I feel like an *******...I just dropped Lester because he has cancer..." I couldn't help but laugh

[jacksonianmarch]

I'll tell you how thrilled I was about Lester. Many on these boards remember my criticism of Lester as not being ML ready after being disappointed in his velocity' date=' command and stuff when I saw him at Spring Training. Plus, none of those guys cost us our #4 hitter. I would not be too thrilled about that.[/quote']

 

That #4 hitter had no position. He did not want to play 1b and to be quite honest, he sucked as a 1b. Giambi will be a full time DH this yr and the OF is full. Where would he have played? He had no position. He had to be dealt. One BA writer said that the 4 guys the yankees got will likely be in their top 30 of organizational prospects with Whelan and Sanchez being top 10. You cannot really go wrong there.

 

Also, I was being theoretical about Lester here. Consider Paps then. Hard throwing beast coming up through the system.

[a700hitter]

That #4 hitter had no position..

Because no one will take that overpaid useless bag of s*** Giambi. Was he also a Tampa move?

[jacksonianmarch]

Because no one will take that overpaid useless bag of s*** Giambi. Was he also a Tampa move?

 

Absolutely. Big Stein loved Giambi. At the same time Giambi was the yankees biggest offensive weapon when they needed one. He was not worthless over the past 2 yrs.

[a700hitter]

Absolutely. Big Stein loved Giambi. At the same time Giambi was the yankees biggest offensive weapon when they needed one. He was not worthless over the past 2 yrs.

Cashman is way overpaid, because he apparently does nothing.

[jacksonianmarch]

He did nothing while stein was ruining the empire. He was a figurehead, a guy who took the brunt of the media while doing nothing. His power started with him being given money to sign their draft picks. It is funny, but the team that spends the most money in baseball was notoriously cheap with their draft picks. This changed with Cashman. He drafted guys who were the best available rather than who will sign. He obtained the best pitching prospect in the majors as well as having a very fine draft this past season where he actually drafted a 2nd-3rd round choice #1 but got 3 first round talents in the supplemental, 8th and 9th rounds respectively. If you look at BA's top 10 for the yankees, you will see his influence. Hughes is the top dog with Tabata (also his signing) at 2. Humberto Sanchez is expected to be the yankees #3 prospect which was Cash's trade. The 4 is Dellin Betances who was drafted last yr as is the 5 (joba chamberlain). The other guys on the list include Clippard, Kennedy, Garcia, Cox and Melancon. If you look at the yankee list, their new top 10 will have 9 pitchers with 3 who might see action in 2007 (Hughes, Sanchez, Clippard). He has honed his minor league system into a way to fight the current market. Bats will always be available, but the arms are hard to come by. He has loaded up the system with pitching, which is something for yankee fans to be excited about. As far as the major league stuff, his biggest thing has been restraint. He restrained on dealing Hughes, Cano, or Wang and so far it looks like a genius move. He was able to wait out Philly's demands and nab Bobby Abreu, who was a huge reason why they won the east. And he then made the 2 trades this offseason that looks really good for dealing away 2 players that had no role. To this point, Cash has done a good job. I was saying the same thing one yr after Epstein wont he WS too and we all know how that worked out. Cautious optimism for the FO of the yankees is in order, but it is something for yankee fans to be optimistic about how their team is run. That hasnt happened for a long time. The spend, spend spend thing is great for the fans for about half the yr, then watching a team of mercs gets old. The young kids bring potential to an old and methodical team. It should be interesting. At the same time, I think Cash's conservative approach has left the yankees vulnerable this yr. We shall see if the sox take advantage.

[Mr Crunchy]

cashman had a great season getting lidle abreau and wilson on the cheap

he is a figurehead but as someone else said,hes getting more powerful each day

 

has anyone underachieved more than joe torre over the last 5 seasons??

1billion in payroll and they have the

ALDS PARTICIPANT banner to show their fans

 

if he fails this season look for them both to be unemployed by november 1st

in torres case maybe by memorial day

[jacksonianmarch]

cashman had a great season getting lidle abreau and wilson on the cheap

he is a figurehead but as someone else said,hes getting more powerful each day

 

has anyone underachieved more than joe torre over the last 5 seasons??

1billion in payroll and they have the

ALDS PARTICIPANT banner to show their fans

 

if he fails this season look for them both to be unemployed by november 1st

in torres case maybe by memorial day

 

You see, Cashman should get a longer leash. He is changing the organizational philosophy from being an expensive vulture to being a self sustaining machine. That takes time. He should be given enough leash to see how his prize of the draft of 03 and how Humberto work out. If Hughes comes up and busts or if Sanchez flames out, then there will be hell to pay and Cash's head will be on a platter.

 

As far as Torre is concerned, the guy can manage a team for 162. That is not an issue. The guy knows how to get the most out of his players over the long haul. But that doesnt get the job done in the playoffs, which is the ultimate barometer of success in NY. He does not have the mental faculties anymore to turn his brain on and find a way to win a game. If the bashers arent bashing, and if the pitchers get hit around a little, he cannot will his team to victory. He doesnt do smallball anymore. He cannot manage a staff. He kills solid bullpen pitchers by giving them the ball daily until their arms fall off, etc. He shouldnt be managing any ball club, let alone a 200mil juggernaut.

[Mr Crunchy]

when the yankees won their titles in the end of the 20th century they played a version of small ball

they put a lot of pressure on defenses with running,occasional sacrifices and timely hits

they were very aggressive on the base paths

 

that team has long been disbanded in favor of the softball team they got now.

torre maybe a players manager

however

after reading the ny daily news write up about the malaise in their dugout(damon trying to get the guys fired up while the randy johnson is scowling at him)

i feel his time has come and gone

 

cashman had his best year in 06

so far hes been quiet,this may be the calm before the storm

[BudLight]

Cashman quiet? He has dumped Sheffield and his $13M and attitude. Sheffield was not a factor last year and the Yanks still won the division, no great loss there. Getting rid of Wright should save a few hundred innings of bullpen work this coming year and the three young pitchers he received from the Tigers are good prospects, something the Yankees need in the future.

[Mr Crunchy]

he hasnt brought in anyone of significance as of yet which is unusual

the 3 prospects from detroit should make trenton competetive but as far as the big boy show goes theyre of no help

 

yet

[BudLight]

he hasnt brought in anyone of significance as of yet which is unusual

the 3 prospects from detroit should make trenton competetive but as far as the big boy show goes theyre of no help

 

yet

 

Offensively, there's really no difference from last season. They still need a frontline pitcher for the rotation, but with only Zito and Schmidt available on the FA market, it doesn't bode well for Cashman right now. I would hate to see him package up some of those young pitchers for a starter, but he may not have a choice in a few weeks.

[Mr Crunchy]

yanks will have no trouble scoring runs again

losing sheff may actually help that team in the long run but hes the 1 guy i feared most in that lineup

losing wright will also help them by keeping their buillpen innings down

people dont consider what a burder a s*** bag starter puts on the rest of the staff

 

see our bullpen for example

how much better would we have been had arroyo and wake been able to pitch 200innings as opposed to the jjjohnsons and the snyders and the dinardos of the world who absolutley destroyed the bullpen with their gross futility

 

im out for the weekend

good to hear from ya bb

keep your head low ya yankee loving cocksmoker

[jacksonianmarch]

when the yankees won their titles in the end of the 20th century they played a version of small ball

they put a lot of pressure on defenses with running,occasional sacrifices and timely hits

they were very aggressive on the base paths

 

that team has long been disbanded in favor of the softball team they got now.

torre maybe a players manager

however

after reading the ny daily news write up about the malaise in their dugout(damon trying to get the guys fired up while the randy johnson is scowling at him)

i feel his time has come and gone

 

cashman had his best year in 06

so far hes been quiet,this may be the calm before the storm

 

 

agreed. Something is up. He is in need of two starting pitchers and a big fish is still available. Yet, he doesnt look to be pursuing him. I think something is afoot and nabbing Sanchez may have been a piece for a future deal.

[Gom]

As you all know, I am a Yankee fan, and I will go on record saying Torre is useless. He never won elsewhere, and won because of his team, not the other way around.

 

That said, I like what the Yankees have done so far. I like Cashman better than any GM we have had in recent memory. However, his positioning has helped the Yankees out tremendously. The jury is still out though. If he doesn't acquire Zito, Schmidt, or some other pitcher in a major deal, I'd say the off-season is a failure. This is the prelude [i hope], otherwise, the Yankees won't play in October.

 

Someone brought up something interesting the other day [on the radio in NY]. If Sheffield had gone on record, agreeing to play first base for the Yankees, do what he could do to help the team win, etc., would I have wanted to trade Sheffield?

 

The sad answer was no. I would have kept him. We may have made do without him last year, but the guy is a monster, and I know other teams feared him more than any other hitter in our lineup.

 

Cashman has done well so far, but he has a lot of work left to do.

[jacksonianmarch]

While I believe that Torre has worn out his welcome, I would NEVER say that he wasnt a major factor in winning WS. He knew how to coach a team that gave him options. He is an old small ball guy, and this team no longer suits his expertise. At the same time, I think he has gotten a little slower in the melon and a little fat and happy with his success. He no longer pushes the right buttons. He no longer forces the power hitter to bunt, he no longer pulls off the hit and run on a daily basis, which was his staple in the 90s. It is time for a change, but he is as much to praise for the dynasty as anyone.

[Gom]

While I believe that Torre has worn out his welcome' date=' I would NEVER say that he wasnt a major factor in winning WS. He knew how to coach a team that gave him options. He is an old small ball guy, and this team no longer suits his expertise. At the same time, I think he has gotten a little slower in the melon and a little fat and happy with his success. He no longer pushes the right buttons. He no longer forces the power hitter to bunt, he no longer pulls off the hit and run on a daily basis, which was his staple in the 90s. It is time for a change, but he is as much to praise for the dynasty as anyone.[/quote']

 

No he wasn't, friend. I could have won 4 World Series since 1996 with the teams the Yankees have given me.

 

The only time this guy had magic was 1996. Remember though, the Yankees had gotten to the playoffs in 1995 under Showalter, so even there, he inherited a very good team.

 

Give me a Leyland or Larussa anyd day of the week.

[Mr Crunchy]

when the yankees were the best in the game they did it playing a little small ball,good defense and a solid 1-5 pitching staff as well as a lites out pen led by rivera and wettland

they had some monster arms,they had guys show up in their twilight and they had some youngsters.

 

torre was an intricate part of the running game,the hit and runs and using guys at the right place and the right time

 

if you choose to argue that the yankees wouldve and shouldve won without him due to their talent level i would agree after 2000 but to claim he had nothing to do with their success wouldnt be fair in my opinion and believe me

no one thinks less of joe torres current abilities more than i

[jacksonianmarch]

another thing Mr. C. When the yankees were the best in the game, they made solid trades. These included the Justice deal, the O'Neill deal, the Knoblauch trade, the Clemens trade, etc. They always seemed to be on the winning end of the deals. I think the deals the yankees have made in the past few yrs have been stalemates at best and total disasters at worst. These most recent deals really look like they could pan out for the yankees, and once they get trades in their favor added to their money, then they will be tough to beat for a long time.

[Gom]

I don't care what anyone says. Torre is an idiot. I'm a diehard Yankee fan, and he's an idiot. I could have won with the teams he had. The only good job he did was in 1996. The rest was a joke.

[jacksonianmarch]

I gave you a chance Gom. Now you are just acting like a bratty little kid.

[Gom]

I gave you a chance Gom. Now you are just acting like a bratty little kid.

 

Come on Jacks...you have been watching the Yankees long enough. This guy burns out his bullpen every year. He doesn't adapt to the team like a good manager. He doesn't know how to manage guys that don't fit in his mold. You have to agree with me on that point.

 

Outside of 1996, when was the last time the Yankees won a playoff series when they weren't favored? He got out-managed by Bob Brenly, and Francona for goodness sake! I think the biggest pickup the Yankees could have made was Pinella.Instead, they have a lame-duck Torre. In fact, he was really only good with Zimmer, if you remember. Zimmer was a bench coach, came up with all the ideas.

 

Case in point. I wish I could remember which game it was, but it was September [or late August] this year, with the Yankees having wrapped up the division after the Boston Massacre II. Karstens is cruising along, throwing a two hitter, and he takes him out with a 4+ run lead late in the game. Why not let him finish? Rest your pen that you burned out. No, he has to pitch Proctor [maybe he has him in his fantasy league], he stinks up the joint, and Rivera has to pitch to save the game.

 

Even if Proctor shut them down, why waste a day's work with a reliever that you are going to use in the post season, for a rookie who can throw all day since he isn't going to make the post season roster?

 

This is one example of many, Jacks. Another prominent one is that when THE GM has to talk to THE MANAGER about overusing Ron Villone, then maybe THE MANAGER has no idea what the hell he is doing anymore.

[a700hitter]

Come on Jacks...you have been watching the Yankees long enough. This guy burns out his bullpen every year. He doesn't adapt to the team like a good manager. He doesn't know how to manage guys that don't fit in his mold. You have to agree with me on that point.

 

Outside of 1996, when was the last time the Yankees won a playoff series when they weren't favored? He got out-managed by Bob Brenly, and Francona for goodness sake! I think the biggest pickup the Yankees could have made was Pinella.Instead, they have a lame-duck Torre. In fact, he was really only good with Zimmer, if you remember. Zimmer was a bench coach, came up with all the ideas.

 

Case in point. I wish I could remember which game it was, but it was September [or late August] this year, with the Yankees having wrapped up the division after the Boston Massacre II. Karstens is cruising along, throwing a two hitter, and he takes him out with a 4+ run lead late in the game. Why not let him finish? Rest your pen that you burned out. No, he has to pitch Proctor [maybe he has him in his fantasy league], he stinks up the joint, and Rivera has to pitch to save the game.

 

Even if Proctor shut them down, why waste a day's work with a reliever that you are going to use in the post season, for a rookie who can throw all day since he isn't going to make the post season roster?

 

This is one example of many, Jacks. Another prominent one is that when THE GM has to talk to THE MANAGER about overusing Ron Villone, then maybe THE MANAGER has no idea what the hell he is doing anymore.

He does burn a bullpen. He can't seem to help himself from going to his horses to lock down a win no matter what the circumstances.

[Gom]

He does burn a bullpen. He can't seem to help himself from going to his horses to lock down a win no matter what the circumstances.

 

I can understand a win in 2005, when we ended up tied for the AL East. However, he has a fear of letting starting pitchers pitch past the 7th inning. I can't tell you how many times a starter has 80-85 pitches going into the 8th with a 4 run lead, with the pitcher throwing a 5 hitter, and he yanks him. He is an absolutely horrible manager when it comes to pitchers. Every year, I mean EVERY SINGLE YEAR, he has two or three in the top 10 of appearances. He goes through relievers faster than Dwight Gooden can violate his probation.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gom, are you seriously going to tell me that he was outmanaged in 2001? He handed the ball to Mo in game 7 with a lead in the 9th inning. He did everything he could against a team that had 2 stud ace pitchers that the yankees couldnt seem to beat. How about 2000, smart insertions of sojo and vizcaino led to game winning hits. He never needed to burn his pen out before because he had guys like Clemens, Wells, Cone, Pettitte etc who were reliable for 7, 8 sometimes even 9 innings. Now, he has a stable of old guys who can go 6 and then are done on a good day. He doesnt have the tools, and this is where he cannot adjust. He works very well when he has the tools that suit him. This team does not suit him, it is time for a change.

[BSN07]

Who isn't a good manager that has the tools that suit him? I hate to be the one to say it, but if you took a bum of the streets of NY city, cleaned him up, and put a uniform on him and sent him out to manage the NYY, they would win atleast 90 games. Same might be said for the Sox too, so i'm not being bias. When your surrounded by great players it's easy to look good. Stick Torre in KC and if he's as good as everyone seems to think and as important to the success of his team as everyone thinks, KC should make the playoffs. Good Managers are the guys who starts with very little and can make it work. Torre was a flop everywhere else he coached, and then when he was surrounded by good ball players he was a genious. Francona was not thought of as being that great and was a surprise pick when he got the sox job, then surrounded by good players he won a WS. Mangers today make very few impact descions during a game. Yes you have to be somewhat baseball savvy to do the job, but in todays game the importance of a manager is overrated. The most important thing that a manger brings to his team and clubhouse is attitude. If the attitude is right the team will gel, but if you have a hard nose manager with happy go lucky players it won't work.

[a700hitter]

Most people say that a manager can make a difference of 5 games on way or the other. Most years the Yankees have won the division by more than 5 games, so the manager's impact was not a factor. In those years where they won by less than 5 games, those were years where Torre burned up his pen and probably cost his team 5 games. In the post-season, he out-managed Bobby Cox in 1996. In the other four series wins, they faced teams that were extremely inferior to the Yankees. Anyone in the stands could have managed those WS victories.

[Gom]

Gom' date=' are you seriously going to tell me that he was outmanaged in 2001? He handed the ball to Mo in game 7 with a lead in the 9th inning. He did everything he could against a team that had 2 stud ace pitchers that the yankees couldnt seem to beat. How about 2000, smart insertions of sojo and vizcaino led to game winning hits. He never needed to burn his pen out before because he had guys like Clemens, Wells, Cone, Pettitte etc who were reliable for 7, 8 sometimes even 9 innings. Now, he has a stable of old guys who can go 6 and then are done on a good day. He doesnt have the tools, and this is where he cannot adjust. He works very well when he has the tools that suit him. This team does not suit him, it is time for a change.[/quote']

 

If he pulls Petitte early, then the Diamonbacks don't save Johnson for Game 7. Like I said, he wasn't favored in that series, but he also didn't win. 2000....the Yankees were far and away a better team and won in 5. Not a good manager..never was, never will be.

[Gom]

Most people say that a manager can make a difference of 5 games on way or the other. Most years the Yankees have won the division by more than 5 games' date=' so the manager's impact was not a factor. In those years where they won by less than 5 games, those were years where Torre burned up his pen and probably cost his team 5 games. In the post-season, he out-managed Bobby Cox in 1996. In the other four series wins, they faced teams that were extremely inferior to the Yankees. Anyone in the stands could have managed those WS victories.[/quote']

 

I don't think I have ever agreed with a post more than this one. Amen.