Worst Move Of Theo's Career?

[rician blast]

And if you didn't' date=' you'de be in first place.[/quote']

 

9 game swing if the trade wasn't made?

 

highly doubtful, if not implausible.

[rician blast]

At the time of that trade I was all for it. That being the case I can't reverse field now and say it was a bad trade...you go with what you know at the time and live or die with it.

 

IMO, the Arroyo trade was worse. much worse. but that's old news.

[Mr Crunchy]

doubtful is being kind james

ridiculous is a better term to use and based on this summers luck or lack thereof

the kid would probably come down with EEE virus or diptheria or something along those lines if he stayed here

[rician blast]

yes, I was being kind, Sir Crunch, but you know what I was really thinking.

 

yer right, anyone donning the Sox cap would have been a potential injury waiting to happen...i bet the Croc hunter was wearing a Sox cap the day of his demise.

[Mr Crunchy]

strange summer indeed man

im not 1 for curses either

speaking of curses

wheres wily mo been??

[rician blast]

wily mo who?

[Mr Crunchy]

you remember wily mo??

the man who was to replace manny with 55 hrs and 160rbi while hitting 390

any wonder why the kid hasnt had 400abs yet?

[elsrbueno]

And if you didn't' date=' you'de be in first place.[/quote']

 

Wow. Every time this guy posts he proves his ignorance.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of the Beckett trade when it happened but not because I didn't like Beckett-- but because I was excited to see Hanley Ramirez play in Boston and Anibal Sanchez had really good strikeout rates in the minors. It seemed like a hefty price to pay especially considering we also had to take on Lowell who was coming off of his worst season at a high cost.

 

But let's face facts: You are saying this is Theo's worst trade of his career based on one season, and you're telling other people they're using too small a sample size?

 

The National League is EASIER to pitch in than the American league. There's no DH and the teams are just plain worse. Coming from the best pitchers' parks in the NL to one of the best hitters' parks in the AL is going to cause a decline. Not to mention the fact that pitching in Boston is a completely different environment than pitching in front of 12 fans in Pro Player (an obvious exaggeration, but since there's Yankee fans on this board I realize I have to point out the obvious). Sanchez is off to a good start, but it's just 14 games. In the grand scheme of things, that's NOTHING.

 

It's foolish to compare Beckett's season and Sanchez' season at face value. It's ignorant to assume that Sanchez would have a 2.89 ERA in Boston, because that's flat out wrong. It's foolish to assume that Beckett would have a 5.11 ERA in Florida this season because that's also wrong.

 

Hanley Ramirez has been good this season. Anibal Sanchez has been good this season. Beckett has been off and on... but to make a statement like this is the worst trade of his career without an educated argument is ignorant and foolish. You give Yankee fans a bad name.

[BoSox21]

I don't want to read any comparisons of major league baseball players and AAAA ball players

[Mr Crunchy]

becks era last year in miami was 3.38 with 166ks over 176 ip

hitters went .246 against him

 

these are the only things that you can translate

comparing becks in the al east to sanchez in the nl east isnt proper

[riverside sluggers]

strange summer indeed man

im not 1 for curses either

speaking of curses

wheres wily mo been??

 

He would be playing right now, but Trot is one of Tito's player crushes. Its obvious Wily Mo is the better hitter this season

 

you remember wily mo??

the man who was to replace manny with 55 hrs and 160rbi while hitting 390

any wonder why the kid hasnt had 400abs yet?

 

just a little exaggeration on your part, no one said on here they expect him to burst out and have those type of numbers. We are talking about him replacing the oft-injured Trot, up in the air who will replace Manny in left field, and if possible a link to post where someone projected he would hit even close to .390?

 

What I think:

With help from Papa Jack, Ortiz & Manny- he could cut down on his tough swings at pitches out of the zone, building at least little bit more patience

Still deliver a good avg, .280 - .300+

In full season, is capable of having a 30+ HR/100+ RBI season

[Mr Crunchy]

for whatever reason the man has yet to play in a full season despite playing for the perrenial losers in cinci over the years....has his health been an issue or

does he do the manny and play whenever he feels like it??

in any case he should be on the field for the rest of the season if hes healthy

if hes not healthy then shelve his ass and get him ready for the spring

 

nixons gone

he better be

i have no idea why tito insists on using him as hes on the slow boat back to dixie next month...im not sure where he ends up...any thoughts as to who wants a .300 hitter with no speed power and constantly banged up?

a guy i know roomed with him in trenton and said nixon was the tuffest man in the organization,now he goes on the dl every other time he swings and misses

i smell roids here

 

anyways

im not a fan of pena but i want to be...christ i need to be

i think hes too aggressive and easily k'd as evidenced by his k #S

he needs to develop patience and this is possible at age 24 but not likely

and if hes in right field?

 

im under the impression we may have 3 new starters out there next spring

[riverside sluggers]

Wily Mo was set to be Cincinatti's starting left fielder this season...

 

--They already had another good hitting outfielder in Austin Kearns to compensate for the loss of Wily Mo

--Their greatest need was starting pitching, enter the Red Sox who during spring training had 7 starting pitchers. Personally I believe Clement shouldve been dealt but his ridculous contract stood in the way

[Mr Crunchy]

it maybe our worst trade since sparky lyle went to the yankees for danny cater

maybe the cecil cooper for george scott or the larry andersen for bags deal

7starters??

let this be a lesson

theres no such thing as too much pitching

[riverside sluggers]

Lets just wait for Wily Mo's first full season as a starter for the Sox to say if Theo bombed on acquiring him.

[jsinger121]

it maybe our worst trade since sparky lyle went to the yankees for danny cater

maybe the cecil cooper for george scott or the larry andersen for bags deal

7starters??

let this be a lesson

theres no such thing as too much pitching

 

comparing bronson arroyo to sparkley lyle is plain foolish. Bronson is nothing more than a 4 or 5 starter on this team.

[Mr Crunchy]

and what was sparky lyle when he was traded to ny??

he was a middle guy back when middle guys were considered expendable.

 

arroyo would be our #2 right now with becks struggling and the rest of the horseman of the apocolypse pitching like s***.

 

see arroyo eats up innings so you dont have to use our 3-4-5 starters the same nite as we did last evening.

 

im not naive to what arroyo is and i am of the mindset that he'll improve as well

hes 28-29??

hes got a rubber arm

hes fearless

hes won in nyc and hes cheap

 

considering the scatine that we've had out there since april i think the arroyo deal is the single biggest reason we'll be watching ny in the playoffs this year and perhaps next year as well

this of course is all depending on how well the sure things like paps lester hansen and babe pedroia play out

 

youre optimistic??

im positive but not optimistic about our shot next year either

funny how things get exposed over a 6 month season

[riverside sluggers]

You cant just assume Arroyo would be the #2 guy this season.

 

It is plausible he would have a 4.50-5 ERA in the AL East. And he has not proven that he can win in nyc, he sucked against the yankees (regular season & playoffs)

[Mr Crunchy]

and with a 4.50 era where does this put him in the rotation??

thats better than becks and better than the latest additions of jarvis??(gotta be s***ing me)snyder dinardo the cut jj johnson and kason gabbard.....maybe gabbards era is lower after the other nite but you see my point

 

hes on pace for 230 ip and an era of 3 in the nl central..

16 ip 2 earned this month

he tossed a 3 hit complete game gem the other nite

 

i loved the guy

and

i reiterate its the #1 reason we're out of the race with a 120,000,000.00 payroll before the patriots even kick off

[riverside sluggers]

hey word is national league, he is doing all this in the national league

 

Sorry its just hard to understand hoiw your blasting this trade, acting like Bronson is a Curt Schilling in the making. In the AL East he would be considered nothing more than a 5th starter

 

Wait a second, so if the Sox didnt trade Bronson... we would right now be getting ready for October? Step by step analysis please on how his presence would beset the vast injuries that has happened from June through today, extended DLs for Coco & Trot (who fills in for them)

 

Basically our September rotation would look like this if Arroyo was still on board. Keep in mind Schilling's season is starting to be in doubt

 

Beckett

Arroyo

Snyder

Gabbard

Tavarez

 

Go get em boys!!

[empirestrikesback26]

I'll stick with the guy that at age 22 gave the Yankees an enema in their house in the 2003 WS clinching game. He's my guy. He has my vote. I am confident that he'll be sticking it up your ass many time in the future. Enjoy.

 

Well he's given every indication he's going to. What's his ERA his last two times against us? In the teens?

[Mr Crunchy]

if ive said it once ive said it 500xs but in case you werent paying attention

 

""im not naive to what arroyo is and i am of the mindset that he'll improve as well

hes 28-29??

hes got a rubber arm

hes fearless

hes won in nyc and hes cheap""

 

i saw arroyo and the sox beat ny and kevin brown twice in the same week in may 04

i dont think arroyo won either decision but he gave up 2earned in 7ip? in the bronx

i dont remember his line from the weeknight game in fenway but they won that too

it was him that got arod out in the playoff game with arods patented slap

it was him that drilled arod that july that got arod bitch slapped by tek and the sox motivated once again

 

 

keep in mind that every 5th day which over the course of a season is 40 games,we used the likes of gabbard snyder dinardo johnson pauley and the other assorted waiver wire s*** bags...i dare not ask what our record was

also keep in mind what a brutal strain that your bulloen takes when every 5 days you need 6 pitchers to complete 9 innings

 

sure the injuries may have stalled us anyways,what happened this summer was almost amusing it was so bad

however

if we did have a 5th like arroyo??

how many more games do you think we wouldve won rather than surrendering 20% of them and taxing our bullpen like we did??

 

230innings of 4.5era wouldve panned out a lot better than the 5th man by commitee that the front office sold many of you on for the sake of wily pena

 

and cheap too my man..1.7M per?? around there??

2 arroyos make a seanez

real cheap

he loved it here and the boned him in the ass and sent him to the queen city

the next time a player is about to do a hometown discount for the sox his agent will point to arroyo and say DONT YOU DARE

remember arroyo.

[jsinger121]

Bronson Arroyo would not have gotten this team into the playoffs. Its that simple.

[schillingouttheks]

Well he's given every indication he's going to. What's his ERA his last two times against us? In the teens?

If I hear you use the "too small" sample size statement in the future, I'm digging this up.

[empirestrikesback26]

If I hear you use the "too small" sample size statement in the future' date=' I'm digging this up.[/quote']

 

I know, I'm not saying he will always suck against us, but the starts he's made against us this year can't give you that much confidence. Even if it was just 1 start.

[Cityofchampions33]

It is WAY too early for anyone to be judging any trade made this season, yes as of now, every player we've traded has doin decent to well, but ALL of those players are in the NL. And eys that is a big deal.

For all you who think this team is flawed just look at whatw e did to the NL teamw e faced, we masacred them, AND with the same team you see before you. It's obvious all of teh top lineups are in the AL, as we ahve the DH position, and focus more on the longball ratehr than small ball.

Also you are all gunna eat crow when Josh beckett does good, I mean the kid is TWENTYSIX, if he was thirty, I see your point, but the hasnt even entered his prime. Wow, how a few months can change everyone's decisions, Im pretty sure no one was complaining when Lowell was hitting doubls elft n right, Beckett ahd a decent ERA, and Sanchez wasnt even pitching in the bigs.

[example1]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I had to get that off my chest.

 

So much second guessing is going on here that its getting absurd. How do any of these discussions either change the past or effect any possible trades in the future? I'm willing to bet that most people would pull the trigger on the Beckett deal the first time offered. In fact, I'm willing to bet that alot of OTHER teams would STILL trade their 2nd and 5th best prospects for Beckett and Lowell. Beckett was a #2 overall pick. He's still 26 and he's LEARNING how to pitch. Nobody seems to notice that. He's about 6 months older than Papelbon, not some old man.

 

Arroyo vs. Pena? Who cares? We have Pena. he has a lot of upside. We saw everything we were going to see from Arroyo and we shouldn't even have HAD arroyo as he signed a cheaper deal. If Arroyo was most players we would have been without him anyway and we wouldn't even be talking about Wily Mo. Instead, they convinced a guy to take less than he was worth on the open market and traded him for someone that would have been difficult to get otherwise. Seems smart to me.

 

This team with Arroyo is still this team. Simple as that. He's a #4 pitcher at best on the Sox.

[rician blast]

Lets just wait for Wily Mo's first full season as a starter for the Sox to say if Theo bombed on acquiring him.

 

 

i can't wait on this one.

 

ya don't trade good starting pitching for a 4th OF unless that starter is about to become a FA, is a clubhouse cancer, etc.

 

You get the picture.

 

The man did not HAVE to go. There was no absolute need to move him. So why deplete pitching for a platoon player?

 

Wily Mo may be awesome next year...I don't know. But even if he hits .330 with 30 HRs and 120 RBIs I'm stickin to my guns and saying the 2006 edition of the Sox were hurt tremendously by this deal.

 

And I'm not saying Arroyo is a stud...far from it...but hw is what he is... a guy who gives you a chance to win and saves the BP by eating innings.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

So what's 1 more year going to do about Lowell's age? Hanley was the future and would have been perfect for the red sox right now. This was a 1 sided trade now and will be looked that way 5 years from now. I realize Theo has made some outstanding moves' date=' but this is his valley.[/quote']

 

Dude...Theo didn't make that trade.

[a700hitter]

Dude...Theo didn't make that trade.

Let's not absolve Theo of anything because he was temporarily on an official hissy fit. He was there and he was consulted even though his capacity was not official.