August 6th @ Tampa Bay

[a700hitter]

Omar turned around the Mets by overpaying for guys and cleaning out his farm system to do so. And guys like Wright, Reyes, and Milledge were drafted or signed under a previous GM so he can't take all the credit in the world.

As Theo took credit for the core of the winning team built by Duke?

[a700hitter]

But, in a way, didn't you just answer your own question? Can't a team with as many resources as the Red Sox retool but at the same time use the resources in place to contend for the playoffs?

But you don't do that by letting your current stars leave.

[ORS]

Just got back from dinner. I listened to the end of the game while washing the cars before we went out. This team has no sack right now. They got bitch slapped two games in a row by the f***ing Tampa Bay AAA's. Papi and Manny can't do it alone -- and to be honest, Manny needs to man up a little when they IBB Papi or we'll be seeing Barry Bonds treatment in the future. The 'pen should be on bread and water for a week. Curt needs to go Jim Leyland on their asses. Greg Norton. Russell Branyan. Are you kidding me? They need to f***ing sack up or they're dropping 2 in KC too. f***ing pathetic.

[a700hitter]

It doesn't matter, It's not you're money, so you have no room to say what they should spend, or should've spent. They will spend what they want because it's their money. I hope your future wife treats you like you and 700 are treating the Sox FO.

 

"Come on honey I want the bigger diamond"

"I really don't want to spend that much"

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!"

I think I know why your niece cries and complains a lot. Her uncle is an *******. While it is their money, maybe the fans should stop filling the Park for the highest ticket prices in the league to see a team that is built to compete, but not to win it all. If the FO doesn't do what it takes to win, the fans should stop going, because it is our money. I can tell you that Yankee fans would just stop going to the park. Yankee ownership knows that its fans will support a winning organization and nothing less.

[CrespoBlows]

I think I know why your niece cries and complains a lot. Her uncle is an *******.

 

I'm sorry, but wow, this was a pretty damn good comeback.

 

[yankeessuck013]

Tuesday's Mojo is:

 

The "Playoffs?" Mojo

 

http://www.czabe.com/backup/Vol3_jan18/mora_tirade_clip5_playoffs.mp3

[a700hitter]

I'm sorry, but wow, this was a pretty damn good comeback.

 

I would never drag family into things, but he did compare me to his niece.

[TheKilo]

As Theo took credit for the core of the winning team built by Duke?

 

Then why didn't Duke win with them? He swindled the Expos for Pedro, signed Nomar, gave Manny a ridiculous contract, traded for Lowe and Tek, and signed Damon. But he absolutely raped the farm system doing so. In turn, towards the end of his tenure, the Sox didn't have the prospects needed to have to make deals for the parts they lacked. Look at some of the teams that Boston fielded towards the late nineties and early 00s. Outside of Nomar, Manny, and Pedro, there wasn't much there. One could argue that Duquette wasted the best pitching years any one pitcher has ever had because he couldn't build the parts around Pedro to deliver a championship. Theo was able to. He was the one who brought in Ortiz, Schilling, and Foulke. Without those acquisitions, we're waiting on year 88. He had the balls to trade Nomar. Duquette did some great things as Sox GM. But he always fell just short.

 

 

But you don't do that by letting your current stars leave.

 

Again, it comes down to the fact that Theo has made a committment to grow from within and become more financially responsible. Contending is easier when you don't have to rely on the free agent market as much. You can depend on your own resources, rather than catering to the whims of your competitors.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Papelbon showing his true colors? One can hope.

[riverside sluggers]

Papelbon showing his true colors? One can hope.

 

His fourth run given up on the season thru August 6, yea its all downhill from here...

[MC Hammer]

I would never drag family into things, but he did compare me to his niece.

I wish I would have compared you to a Yankee fan, becuase that's more accurate. PLEASE start rooting for them. They're the team you want ... they spend ridiculous amounts of money to win every year.

[Beckett95]

Norton hit almost every ball in this series hard. He owned the Sox this series

[a700hitter]

I wish I would have compared you to a Yankee fan, becuase that's more accurate. PLEASE start rooting for them. They're the team you want ... they spend ridiculous amounts of money to win every year.

You have a problem with winning?

[Beckett95]

You guys are f***ing ridiculous with all your bitching.

 

"We're not gonna make the playoffs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

"Tito shoulda left JJ in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

"We dont deserve to make the playoffs waaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

I love how we drop out of first place for a week and everyone is on suicide watch.

 

There is no way in hell this team makes the playoffs if they continue playing like they have since the All-Star break.

[a700hitter]

Then why didn't Duke win with them? He swindled the Expos for Pedro, signed Nomar, gave Manny a ridiculous contract, traded for Lowe and Tek, and signed Damon. But he absolutely raped the farm system doing so. In turn, towards the end of his tenure, the Sox didn't have the prospects needed to have to make deals for the parts they lacked. Look at some of the teams that Boston fielded towards the late nineties and early 00s. Outside of Nomar, Manny, and Pedro, there wasn't much there. One could argue that Duquette wasted the best pitching years any one pitcher has ever had because he couldn't build the parts around Pedro to deliver a championship. Theo was able to. He was the one who brought in Ortiz, Schilling, and Foulke. Without those acquisitions, we're waiting on year 88. He had the balls to trade Nomar. Duquette did some great things as Sox GM. But he always fell just short.

Duke was never given the resources to get a Foulke and a Schilling and sign them long term in the same off-season. Who did Duke lose out of the farm system that he raped so badly that is making a difference for another team. Duke did bring Trot and Nomar to the majors and he traded for and brought Varitek to the majors. It seems to me that he identified the right guys to bring to the majors, and he traded the others for major leaguers. I think that's what a good GM is supposed to do.

Again, it comes down to the fact that Theo has made a committment to grow from within and become more financially responsible. Contending is easier when you don't have to rely on the free agent market as much. You can depend on your own resources, rather than catering to the whims of your competitors.

So if they kept Damon and Pedro, they wouldn't have Lester and MDC and the other youngsters? Why are the two mutually exclusive? The fact is that they are not mutually exclusive. You are just making excuses for the bad FO decisions to let them go. They didn't plow the money back into the farm system. They used it on the likes of Clement, Wells, Seanez, Tavarez, Wade Miller and others. That was a waste of resources. Keeping a HOF pitcher that has been an ALLStar twwo years in a row is not a wast. Oh, I forgot. He's over the hill. He was shut down by the Mets in September. Of course, that was because they were in contention for nothing and they were protecting a very valuable asset. That was just smart. Keeping Johnny Damon would have been smart instead of wasting $21 million on Renteria for one stinking, and I mean stinking, year.

[ORS]

Papelbon showing his true colors? One can hope.

Mods, I'm not one to usually call for expulsion, but can we get rid of this guy? These are the only types comments he makes here, and when called on it, he rarely responds. Textbook hit-and-run trolling behavior. Get rid of this trash.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

FWIW...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rosters

 

Yankees avg. age is 31.6 (2nd oldest), Boston's is 31.1 (T-4th oldest)

[ORS]

Point being?

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Point being?

 

No point really. That's why I put FWIW at the top.

[a700hitter]

It does show that the Yankees are not an old decrepit team while the Red Sox are team in the midst of a youth movement.

[Cocos Disciples]

It does show that the Yankees are not an old decrepit team while the Red Sox are team in the midst of a youth movement.

 

It does, except the two teams are .5 years apart in age...

[a700hitter]

It does' date=' except the two teams are .5 years apart in age...[/quote']OMG .5 years!

[schillingouttheks]

We're the same age, and the Yankees are winning. I think that's what he was getting at. There's no reason for a youth movement when the Yankees are just as "young" as we are, and because of this "youth movement" we aren't winning like we would like to. ESPECIALLY since the all star break. So basically what's happening is we're watching a team that's aged the same as us spank us when it comes to the trade deadline, and watch them take over first place and continue to win while we struggle to breathe.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

We're the same age, and the Yankees are winning. I think that's what he was getting at. There's no reason for a youth movement when the Yankees are just as "young" as we are, and because of this "youth movement" we aren't winning like we would like to. ESPECIALLY since the all star break. So basically what's happening is we're watching a team that's aged the same as us spank us when it comes to the trade deadline, and watch them take over first place and continue to win while we struggle to breathe.

 

Yeah, something like that. I thought the stats spoke for themselves, but I guess not.

[Cocos Disciples]

Thank you. Exactly.

[jacksonianmarch]

I will be honest with you. The past 2 years have really boggled me. They say they want to go young, then they get Wells to fill a rotation spot and re-up Wake. They have a stud rookie in the minors and instead of giving him the SS job after Cabrera left, they signed ERent to big money and then trade the young kid away, with a top pitching prospect for a young pitcher with injury problems and a history of blowing up on the road. If they really wanted to go young, Anibal Sanchez would be in the rotation and Hanley would be the starting SS for the sox. At the same time, the 22 mil they spent on ERent, the 3 mil they spent on AGon and the load of cash they just spent on Beckett could have been saved and used this offseason on a guy like Zito. If their goal is to rebuild, they sure could stay competitive and still give the rookies a shot. Thing is, even with the young guys like MDC, Hansen, Lester, Papelbon, Youk, Beckett, and Crisp, the sox are still an old team. It is like they are telling the fans one thing and doing another, while focusing on the one or two instances of them actually following their publicized "plan". I think they would take making an extra 20 mil and being competetive but not great over not making that extra cash and going for the gold.

[ORS]

I got the impression that it was provided to mean exactly what it actually was intended to mean. I asked so as to not jump to conclusions. Undoubtedly, they are relatively the same age this year, but I think the trends are heading in the opposite direction. Every key cog to this year's Yankee team will be brought back next year -- with the core approaching their mid 30's. Loretta, Wells, Nixon, and possibly the Wake/Mirabelli combo are unlikely to be on the Sox roster next year. These trends were what was being discussed last night in the thread, so they need to be considered for context when arbitrarily throwing average age out there.

[a700hitter]

Yeah, something like that. I thought the stats spoke for themselves, but I guess not.

They did, but the FO toadies are programmed to believe the propaganda about getting younger and planning for the future while letting a 32 year old Pedro go because he is too old to sign four 4 year contract, but then they go sign a 41 year old dinosaur like Wells to a two year contract. Then they go and sign a sack of s*** like Clement for a ton of money who is all of 3 years younger than Pedro and already hit his very low ceiling. Pedro at 40 would be twice the pitcher as Cement head in his prime. Let's not forget the two year signing of a 36 year old Rudy Seanez who is completely unaccomplished and a total sack of s***. We raise the white flag on the game thread when he comes in. Yet, somehow a 32 year old Pedro martinez and a 32 year old Damon were deemed to be too old and not worth the risk. It was felt that somehow they will be in decline during their 4 year contracts. Of course they didn't figure that these guys in decline are still better than most All Stars. It's not a justification that Pedro can't pitch like he did from 98-2000, because no one ever had three years like that. If Pedro could still pitch like that, he'd be making $20 million/year for 4 years. Just because he can't reach that peak again, doesn't mean that he will not be very good for several more years. Yaz never reached the level of his peak from 1967-1970, but he played for another 13 or 14 years, mostly at a very high level and he almost always was an All Star. This ownership would've thrown Yaz under the bus at age 31-32. I remember the few times there were trade rumors for Yaz. The best offer we got was in 1971or 2 for the immortal Amos Otis, who was that generation's equivalent of Coco Crisp, but with better tools. He had a strong arm and better power. He was much younger than Yaz-- 8 years. Thank goodness that there was the foresight to realize that you don't trade away you Hall of Famer for an unproven CF. BTW, even tough he was 8 years younger than Yaz, Otis played only one season longer, and although he had around 200 HRs and 1000 RBI, no one has ever mistaken him for a Hall of Famer. ...Pedro and Damon were too old to be re-signed at age 32.

 

Edit: BTW Clemens was 33 when it was declared that he was in the twighlight of his career. All-time great players are what they are because they don't roll over and die at age 32, 33,34 or 35. They find a way to get it done at a high level as will Pedro and Damon. We can sit here and watch our starws perform their feats and go to World Series on NY teams. Where have I seen this show before? I remember watching Clemens iwin Yankee World Series while we had a broken down David Cone. Now the Mets have Pedro and the Yankees have Damon and we have a broken down David Wells. de ja vu all over again.

[ORS]

Disagree with the concept all you want, but let's not ignore the facts. Pedro and Damon were just young enough to command longer deals -- as is evidenced by what the market provided. To make that decision, they had to elect to fill spots with the stopgaps Wells, Clement-head, Seanez, etc. That doesn't mean the youth movement is a farce, because the years 2007 and beyond were the target for what they are doing.

[a700hitter]

Disagree with the concept all you want, but let's not ignore the facts. Pedro and Damon were just young enough to command longer deals -- as is evidenced by what the market provided. To make that decision, they had to elect to fill spots with the stopgaps Wells, Clement-head, Seanez, etc. That doesn't mean the youth movement is a farce, because the years 2007 and beyond were the target for what they are doing.

I don't disagree that they are looking to eventually look to become younger an cheaper(that's the key), but I disagree fundamentally with the way they are going about the youth movement. I've said it many times that the development of young talent did not have to come at the expense of letting Pedro and Damon walk. It's not like we got some young players or top prospects. Don't talk to me about draft picks, because none of them will hit the ML roster for 5 years if at all.