5th starter

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Now Im really getting a migraine

 

Tell me about it.

 

The Atlanta Braves won championships with Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and John Smoltz....

 

I'm excited to see what Josh Beckett, Jonathan Papelbon, and Jon Lester can do for our future

[Mr Crunchy]

the braves won 15 divisions

1 world series

maybe if they moved someone for some bullpen help or a bat they wouldve won more

[a700hitter]

smoltz is a great pitcher but I don't trade a 22 yr old lefthander for him no matter what. even with smoltz you are not guaranteed a title. i will take long term success over a quick fix.

What is long term success? We've had 1 Championship in 86 years. Other than the Yankees, the Cardinals have the second most championships, and they haven't won a World Series in 24 years, so please don't talk to me about long term success over winning it all now. That is a BS line for the FO to feed the fans to justify them controlling their costs. Wake up. Stop being a sucker for the FO BS. I will admit that this ownership is much more serious about putting a good product on the field than the prior ownership, but please let's stop talking about long term success. A Dynasty is not coming our way. I'd be happy to see one or two more championships in the next 20 years. I want the FO to try its best to win the whole thing when it has a team with a realistic shot. This team has a shot, and I will be disappointed if the FO doesn't make the necessary moves to put it over the top. It's a year to year proposition for me as a fan. I will not feel good if they fall out of playoff contention, because they still have a great farm system. "Wait-till-next year" is not something that I will enjoy saying. Few teams go wire to wire and win the championship without making moves during the year. I hope our FO doesn't stand pat, because if they do, we will be watching only football come October.

[Mr Crunchy]

my point exactly luca

why wait till next year after hearing the same ******** in my lifetime 39/40 yrs

jon lester is a nice young lefty and they are commodites,no doubt about it

on the cheap too,this is the key

thats how theyre really valued by the 19 different investors who own the sox

 

is there a bigger commodity in this game than an october ace??

not since ive watched the game

 

were not discussing october failures like clemens or cast offs like benson

we're not talking about the jeff suppans and frank castillos of the world either

 

this is all moot anyways

so long as atlanta is involved smoltz aint going anywhere and neither is plan aa in jason schmidt

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

What would everyone say if Jon Lester pitched for us in the playoffs and won a couple games??

 

....I'm not sure I believe Smoltz would do any better than Lester in the playoffs. We don't know quite enough about Lester and he could get real hot when September-October hits. Not to mention we will have Beckett, Schilling, Wells, and Wakefield. Matt Clement will come back sometime.

 

Our rotation is set. Unless the Red Sox can get Dontrelle Willis I see no upside at this point to look at Smoltz, Schmidt, Zito....who we lose after the season. If we make the playoffs and they lose....thats a bad move.

[CrespoBlows]

What is long term success? We've had 1 Championship in 86 years. Other than the Yankees, the Cardinals have the second most championships, and they haven't won a World Series in 24 years, so please don't talk to me about long term success over winning it all now. That is a BS line for the FO to feed the fans to justify them controlling their costs. Wake up. Stop being a sucker for the FO BS. I will admit that this ownership is much more serious about putting a good product on the field than the prior ownership, but please let's stop talking about long term success. A Dynasty is not coming our way. I'd be happy to see one or two more championships in the next 20 years. I want the FO to try its best to win the whole thing when it has a team with a realistic shot. This team has a shot, and I will be disappointed if the FO doesn't make the necessary moves to put it over the top. It's a year to year proposition for me as a fan. I will not feel good if they fall out of playoff contention, because they still have a great farm system. "Wait-till-next year" is not something that I will enjoy saying. Few teams go wire to wire and win the championship without making moves during the year. I hope our FO doesn't stand pat, because if they do, we will be watching only football come October.

 

Front office BS? Everything you typed is BS. You don't trade pitchers with this kind of potential for 39 year old pitchers who will be here for two months. Especially, if you're in FIRST PLACE. You're telling me trading for two months of John Smoltz is good enough to justify trading six years of Jon Lester? That's absolute stupidity.

 

Maybe you should have traded Jon Papelbon and Hanley Ramirez for Jason Schmidt. That would have been a great trade, right?

 

A dynasty won't come our way if we trade Lester for Smoltz. But there could be one if we have Lester, Papelbon, and Beckett. You're telling me that couldn't compete for a WS title every year?

[Mr Crunchy]

last october 3 and out

3 losses in last years playoffs were wells clement and wakefield

all got hit hard

schilling anfd beckett will be here

schilling has been awesome

which josh beckett will appear in october

the guy toronto and ny pulverized or the mvp of the 03 world series??

 

a valid question i feel

 

youre not sure smoltz would do better than lester??

agreed

you cant be 100% sure

but based on what we know smoltz has done and based on what we've seen from lester

i think its a fair assumption that smoltz would handle game 7 pressure for sure and lester?? hes the question mark not smoltz

 

please dont mention matt clement in a serious conversation about playoff rosters and who will be on our staff in october

i almost s*** my pants in anxiety when i saw you post his name

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

last october 3 and out

3 losses in last years playoffs were wells clement and wakefield

all got hit hard

schilling anfd beckett will be here

schilling has been awesome

which josh beckett will appear in october

the guy toronto and ny pulverized or the mvp of the 03 world series??

 

a valid question i feel

 

youre not sure smoltz would do better than lester??

agreed

you cant be 100% sure

but based on what we know smoltz has done and based on what we've seen from lester

i think its a fair assumption that smoltz would handle game 7 pressure for sure and lester?? hes the question mark not smoltz

 

please dont mention matt clement in a serious conversation about playoff rosters and who will be on our staff in october

i almost s*** my pants in anxiety when i saw you post his name

 

I didn't say anywhere I'm counting on Matt Clement to do anything....but he's a starting pitcher and will be back so the Red Sox need to put him somewhere. I highly doubt the Red Sox would let Jon Lester pitch game 7 in a playoff series. If Schilling and Beckett are used up in that series you go with David Wells or Tim Wakefield. Both of those guys have the experience and ability to win.

 

You really should be excited about Papelbon, Lester, and Beckett for the future. None of them have hit there prime careers yet (s*** two of them just showed up). They are going to all hit the peak of there careers at the same time.....how would that be for a 3 game series in future playoffs. All you can ask for is the team makes the playoffs every year. After that you hope the team gets hot.

[a700hitter]

is there a bigger commodity in this game than an october ace??

not since ive watched the game

You have been a fan long enough to remember how Dave Stewart used to kick ass on the Red Sox in the Playoffs. No one would have traded a young Clemens for him, but in a big game, my $ was on Stewart. I like our young pitchers, but none of them are young Rockets. Except for Papelbon and Lester, I would be willing to part with any of them to get a Dave Stewart equivalent, if one is available.

[a700hitter]

Front office BS? Everything you typed is BS. You don't trade pitchers with this kind of potential for 39 year old pitchers who will be here for two months. Especially, if you're in FIRST PLACE. You're telling me trading for two months of John Smoltz is good enough to justify trading six years of Jon Lester? That's absolute stupidity.

 

Maybe you should have traded Jon Papelbon and Hanley Ramirez for Jason Schmidt. That would have been a great trade, right?

I never mentioned specific names, nor did I advocate trading pitchers, but I would gladly part with pedroia or Murphy. I also think some pitchers can be moved. Not all of them will be stars. When the Yankees landed David Cone for 3 prospects, those prospects were very highly rated. It was thought that the Blue Jays were building for the future, but they all turned out to be busts. The Yankees took the hired gun and went on to a championship in '96 and the Blue Jays got a one-way ticket to Palooka-ville.

 

Prospects are a crap shoot, no matter how good your recruiting system. John Smoltz is not a crap shoot for the next 1 or 2 years. He has built a very reliable track record.

A dynasty won't come our way if we trade Lester for Smoltz. But there could be one if we have Lester, Papelbon, and Beckett. You're telling me that couldn't compete for a WS title every year?

I am so sure that there is no Dynasty in the Red Sox future that if they win 2 WS in a row in the next 10 years, I pledge to treat you and a guest to Dinner at the restaurant of your choice. It would be my pleasure. I will also bow down to you and admit that I was wrong.

[CrespoBlows]

I never mentioned specific names, nor did I advocate trading pitchers, but I would gladly part with pedroia or Murphy. I also think some pitchers can be moved. Not all of them will be stars. When the Yankees landed David Cone for 3 prospects, those prospects were very highly rated. It was thought that the Blue Jays were building for the future, but they all turned out to be busts. The Yankees took the hired gun and went on to a championship in '96 and the Blue Jays got a one-way ticket to Palooka-ville.

 

You know what? If it were 1996, and the Boston Red Sox roster looked the way it does now, I'd probably make a move for Smoltz, provided I could only give up one prospect. Now, with salaries raising everyday, there is no conceivable way, I'm going to trade three prospects or even one for that matter for a 39 year old veteran. Think about it like this, you give up Lester and receive John Smoltz in return. At the end of the season, he retires. You now have to sign a free agent to replace Smoltz. Personally, I'm a fan of Barry Zito. Let's go get him and sign him to a $12 million dollar contract. You could go the cheaper route, and sign Gil Meche to a $6 million a year contract. Still, that's somewhere in between $11.5 million - $5.5 million you have to replace by not keeping Jon Lester. The Red Sox budget is basically set at where it is now. So you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. (Solidfying the starting rotation) Granted, the Red Sox would still be a solid team, but they could be a great team if they'd paid Lester only $350,000 to do what any other FA pitcher, or Smoltz would have done for 5X less. With that money saved, the Red Sox can probably sign a FA closer, and move Papelbon to the rotation. That way, you've got a rotation that could potentially look like: Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, Lester, and Wakefield. Maybe, the Red Sox could afford to take a gamble on Eric Gagne, or trade for a Tom Gordon.

 

Prospects are a crap shoot, no matter how good your recruiting system. John Smoltz is not a crap shoot for the next 1 or 2 years. He has built a very reliable track record.I am so sure that there is no Dynasty in the Red Sox future that if they win 2 WS in a row in the next 10 years, I pledge to treat you and a guest to Dinner at the restaurant of your choice. It would be my pleasure. I will also bow down to you and admit that I was wrong.

 

I don't know about these kinds of prospects. In the few times we've seen him, Lester looks legit.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

What does it say about the Red Sox scouting system when players like Jon Lester, Jonathan Papelbon, Manny Delcarmen, Craig Hansen, Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez and Matt Murton are all becoming successful players at the MLB level.

[a700hitter]

What does it say about the Red Sox scouting system when players like Jon Lester, Jonathan Papelbon, Manny Delcarmen, Craig Hansen, Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez and Matt Murton are all becoming successful players at the MLB level.

They are admittedly very good, but for every name you have mentioned 10 more fall by the wayside. One out of 10 is worse odds than shooting craps.

[MC Hammer]

They are admittedly very good, but for ever name you have mentioned 10 more fall by the wayside. One out of 10 is worse odds than shooting craps.

I think he was comparing us to other teams around baseball. Of course there are teams better than the Red Sox at Scouting/Developing young players ... The Marlins and Braves come to mind ... but we're definatly one of the top teams. You wanna talk about shooting craps ... let's talk about the Pirates. They produced 3 MLB quality players in a decade and a half ... even worse than shooting craps.

[a700hitter]

Granted, the Red Sox would still be a solid team, but they could be a great team if they'd paid Lester only $350,000 to do what any other FA pitcher, or Smoltz would have done for 5X less.

Champions are great teams. Anything short of a Championship is just very good. 2006 has the potential of being a great team if they get a stud stater before Monday afternoon.

 

BTW: I haven't been advocating trading Lester. He's the # 3 right now. It would make no sense to trade him, because they would still be short a starter.

[a700hitter]

I think he was comparing us to other teams around baseball. Of course there are teams better than the Red Sox at Scouting/Developing young players ... The Marlins and Braves come to mind ... but we're definatly one of the top teams. You wanna talk about shooting craps ... let's talk about the Pirates. They produced 3 MLB quality players in a decade and a half ... even worse than shooting craps.

I agree.

[riverside sluggers]

rotoworld

The Boston Globe reports that Matt Clement (shoulder) appears to have "fallen completely off the Sox' radar."

Clement is expected to play catch Tuesday and is eligible to return from the disabled list in two weeks, but it doesn't look like the Red Sox are planning to have him back in any meaningful way.

 

All signs pointing to that once the offseason is here the Sox will try to trade Clement to any team for anything and will eat up that salary if they have to. If no one bites then they'll just buy out his contract and send him packing

[MANNYHOF24]

Clement will probally never be decent ever agian

[Red Sox Rulz]

Clement will probally never be decent ever agian

You honestly can't blame the guy. He's been hit by a batted ball seriously once,and had several close calls.

[jimmycarter05]

I think Kyle Snyder should definately be in the Red Sox rotation now, 4.1 innings with only 1 hit and 6 Ks against the Cleveland Guardians, not too shabby.

[riverside sluggers]

Long relief yes

 

Snyder though has shown he doesnt have the stamina to last 5 innings or more. He'd be more reliable coming out of the bullpen

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I think Kyle Snyder should definately be in the Red Sox rotation now, 4.1 innings with only 1 hit and 6 Ks against the Cleveland Guardians, not too shabby.

 

I think he should be in our bullpen as a long setup man....with a weak #4/#5 starter and Lester not being able to get deep in games consistantly...he could be used quite often

[Red Sox Rulz]

I think Kyle Snyder should definately be in the Red Sox rotation now, 4.1 innings with only 1 hit and 6 Ks against the Cleveland Guardians, not too shabby.

He has that nasty breaking ball. I agree with you.

[SoxFan25]

i like snyder, should he be a starter i dont know but i really want him to be at the big league level because he can help out in the bullpen or be the emergency starter. he did a tremendous job yesterday.

[Mr Crunchy]

is there a starter on this team who can go 7 innings anymore??

this bullpen may be toast if they insist on bringing up s*** bag after s*** bag to start every 4th and 5th game as the other guys struggle as well.

[Red Sox Rulz]

Though I'm not high on him, Livan Hernandez eats innings.

[Mr Crunchy]

if we were talking in april i'd love this guy but hes really really struggled lately

his velocity is gone

 

 

06/25 @BAL 1 0 0 6.0 6 3 3 1

07/01 TB 0 0 0 7.0 10 3 4 5

07/06 FLA 0 0 0 1.2 6 7 1 0

07/16 @PIT 0 0 0 6.0 7 3 0 3

07/22 CHC 1 0 0 6.0 7 3 2 5

07/27 SF 1 0 0 7.0 6 3 0 5

 

hes 3-0 in his last 6 starts and he has thrown a lot of innings

but over the year hes been rather lousy with a 5.75 era in a pitchers league and ballpark

 

faaaaak

we need a pitcher