Clement DL Bound?

[Beckett95]

Does Kapler's activation mean we can stop seeing Willie Harris in this lineup and send him back down to AAA?

 

They like Harris late in the game as a pinch runner/defensive substitution. For that reason he wont be sent down. The only way Kapler affects Harris is in a good way because now if Manny or Trot need a day off, Kapler can play instead of Harris

[RoyNHSox]

Clement has been placed on the DL!!!!!!!!

 

Our boy Gabe Kapler is back with the Sox to take his place

 

I didnt even have a speech prepared

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

 

The Sox can use the extra bat with some power on the bench so I’m glad to see Gabe back.

 

I wonder how Kyle Snyder will work out. Looks like he’ll have options so I like the flexibility.

[TheKilo]

I'll do this without being demeaning.

 

What do you offer for Dontrelle Willis, that can't be beat by another team?

 

 

I was seriously going to post this right after I read his post.

 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the Marlins asked for any of the combination of Hansen, Papelbon, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, etc. Basically our best prospects.

 

Edit - And the teams mentioned to be in the running for Willis could probably beat whatever package we put together, because the FO probably won't part with Papelbon or Hansen.

[riverside sluggers]

Gabe Kapler now becomes the best bat out of the bench players. He's also always solid on defense. Willie Harris' role should diminish to one thing, pinch running. Anyways, his time up here is coming to and end

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's Kyle Snyder's career stats...

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7122/career;_ylt=Ap90ZcOvG5SVBsuUXjfxw3GFCLcF

[a700hitter]

I'll do this without being demeaning.

 

What do you offer for Dontrelle Willis, that can't be beat by another team?

I don't know exactly what it will take to get him, but I am sure it would be one or more prime prospects and some second tier prospects. Maybe the Marlin's price is prohibitive, in which case maybe they should pursue Schmidt.

[Cocos Disciples]

Has Kapler come in midseason every year he has played for us, or did he play a full 2004?

[Beckett95]

Has Kapler come in midseason every year he has played for us' date=' or did he play a full 2004?[/quote']

 

ya he played in 136 games with the Sox in 2004

[ksushi]

Schmidt is injury prone and will cost our future. 700, why do you want to win so bad this year? Would you sell our future this season knowing full well that we would get mowed down by the white sox in the playoffs? Wait. Have some patience. Lester is going to stay, so is Hansen, so that means we are really looking at the second teir guys. (Thompson, Ramon Ortiz etc. etc.)

[jsinger121]

Schmidt is another guy that won't come cheap either. the market for starters is thin while the price is high. the sox aren't going to sell the farm this year when its obvious the competition in the AL is greater than it was in 2004.

[Beckett95]

rotoworld

Red Sox placed RHP Matt Clement on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to June 15, with a right shoulder strain.

A right shoulder strain could mean anything. The Red Sox probably have no idea at this point what they'll get out of Clement the rest of this year, and they also haven't announced who they'll have replace him in the rotation next week. Abe Alvarez is a better choice than David Pauley, though that's simply the lesser of two evils. The Red Sox have needed pitching help for weeks, and the best the organization has been able to do about it is downgrade the bullpen and pick up a castoff from baseball's worst team. Advantage Yankees.

 

very true, except for Alvarez being a better option than Pauley. Alvarez has sucked when he's been with the Sox in his career. Atleast Pauley was able to have one good game.

[a700hitter]

Schmidt is injury prone and will cost our future. 700, why do you want to win so bad this year? Would you sell our future this season knowing full well that we would get mowed down by the white sox in the playoffs? Wait. Have some patience. Lester is going to stay, so is Hansen, so that means we are really looking at the second teir guys. (Thompson, Ramon Ortiz etc. etc.)

If Lester doesn't work out, they will have to move fast to get someone or they could easily fall out of contention. I think the FO should make every effort to win this year. They already have a high payroll, and Red Sox fans pay some of the highest ticket prices in baseball to support that inflated payroll. They owe it to the fans to put together a team that can go all the way. It's not an acceptable strategy to hope the current team makes the playoffs with the expectatiion that they will get annihilated in the first round. My 39 years of fandom has proved to me that it you can be building for the future for decades. When you have the opportunity to grasp for the brass ring, I think you have to go for it. If they win it all this year, they would have to rebuild the farm system somewhat. I am not selling our future, the FO created this dilemna by their really sucky off-season bullpen moves.

[ksushi]

The Sox have never had a farm system like they have now. They are not building for now they are building for two and three years from now. To expect the Sox to go out and pay an arm and a leg for a semi-frontline starter is absurd. It goes against they're organizational philosophy. Lester is here to learn how to pitch in the big leagues, not to become bait. You'll be happy when the Sox put it the pennant away every year for a few years when some of these players reach the big leagues playing major roles with minimal pay checks, allowing the Sox to procure some of the big time players that hit free agency in the years to come. Thats why the Sox didn't go after the big fish this offseason or last because when the time comes, there will be the same talent out there for the same price and the sox will have the flexibility to pay for it all while having impact players on the cheap as well. You'll be happy.

[a700hitter]

The Sox have never had a farm system like they have now. They are not building for now they are building for two and three years from now. To expect the Sox to go out and pay an arm and a leg for a semi-frontline starter is absurd. It goes against they're organizational philosophy. Lester is here to learn how to pitch in the big leagues, not to become bait. You'll be happy when the Sox put it the pennant away every year for a few years when some of these players reach the big leagues playing major roles with minimal pay checks, allowing the Sox to procure some of the big time players that hit free agency in the years to come. Thats why the Sox didn't go after the big fish this offseason or last because when the time comes, there will be the same talent out there for the same price and the sox will have the flexibility to pay for it all while having impact players on the cheap as well. You'll be happy.

The moves made in this past off-season moves are causing me to lose confidence in the judgment of the FO.

[riverside sluggers]

The moves made in this past off-season moves are causing me to lose confidence in the judgment of the FO.

 

I got no judgement against getting these players:

Coco Crisp, Josh Beckett (he'll adjust to the AL), Mike Lowell, Alex Gonzalez, Mark Loretta, Wily Mo Pena (next year will be when the past trade can fully be looked at)

 

Why? list

Rudy Seanez (maybe he has gotten better but I cringe with him in tight situations), Julian Tavarez, J.T. Snow

[yankeessuck013]

Kyle Snyder will start Monday per WEEI, and it has the potential to get ugly (especially with this offensive funk we're in), in his only start this yearr vs TEX:

 

2 IP, 10 H, 9 R, 5 ER, BB, 2 K, 22.50 ERA

 

When you get cut by KC, you know you're bad.

[CrespoBlows]

I don't know exactly what it will take to get him, but I am sure it would be one or more prime prospects and some second tier prospects. Maybe the Marlin's price is prohibitive, in which case maybe they should pursue Schmidt.

 

See: Willis, Dontrelle for the asking price. That's the first downfall of a trade. Second downfall, age. Third downfall, the San Francisco Giants. Fourth downfall, money.

 

You have to believe that there are going to be a lot of people in pursuit of Jason Schmidt. Using the laws of supply and demand, the Giants can gouge the team desperate enough for him. They'll probably want two prospects that are major league ready, and probably one more who'll make a big impact in the future. Too much talent to give up for a three month rental. Teams that don't have unlimited payrolls need some players on their team to make the minimum. It frees up money so they can pursue other FA's. I don't believe it is cost effective to surrender, a potential ace, a potential all-star second basemen (Pedroia), and a potential closer. (Hansen) All three of those players will make $900,000 combined next year, and all of them will be on this ballclub next year. Does it really make any sense in terms of cost to give Schmidt $10 million dollars, when Lester can probably come close to matching those numbers for $300,000? Plus, you have to surrender the starting second basemen of 2007, and you replace him. If Alex Gonzalez can get $3 million, how much are you going to have to give a decent 2B who has reached free agency? Let's guess $3 million to replace Pedroia, and another $3 million for a relief pitcher instead of Hansen. That's $16 million dollars spent versus $900,000. Besides, that's purely hypothetical. Can the Boston Red Sox afford to spend $150 million dollars on payroll? I doubt it. They have to dole out money to revenue sharing, and then get hit with a huge luxury tax. Not enough cash to go around to stay out of the red.

 

Next, age. Jason Schmidt will turn 34 to start the year 2007. Not many pitchers retain their fastballs that late in their career. That usually means pitchers will start to decline. Plus adjusting to the AL can almost certaintly add a half a run to his ERA. While he's having a good year this year, his strikeouts are down, usually meaning that his stuff has declined a bit. Schmidt will almost certaintly want a 4 year contract extenstion that will pay him until he's 38. By then, he could a gun slinger without any bullets left, putting the Red Sox on the hook for a lot of cash for a pitcher who doesn't have it anymore. Also, remember the last time Schmidt's fastball declined? The year was 2005, Schmidt's ERA climbed to 4.40, and for the first time since 2001 he failed to strike out more batters then IP. Maybe if Schmidt was 27 instead of 34, you'd think about it, but power pitchers decline with age. Don't make the mistake of giving up three promsing players for a pitcher certain to falter.

 

Real quickly. This is all contigent if the Giants fall out of the pennant race. There are five teams within two games of each other in the NL West. This being Bonds' last year, the Giants may be buyers.

[a700hitter]

See: Willis, Dontrelle for the asking price. That's the first downfall of a trade. Second downfall, age. Third downfall, the San Francisco Giants. Fourth downfall, money.

 

You have to believe that there are going to be a lot of people in pursuit of Jason Schmidt. Using the laws of supply and demand, the Giants can gouge the team desperate enough for him. They'll probably want two prospects that are major league ready, and probably one more who'll make a big impact in the future. Too much talent to give up for a three month rental. Teams that don't have unlimited payrolls need some players on their team to make the minimum. It frees up money so they can pursue other FA's. I don't believe it is cost effective to surrender, a potential ace, a potential all-star second basemen (Pedroia), and a potential closer. (Hansen) All three of those players will make $900,000 combined next year, and all of them will be on this ballclub next year. Does it really make any sense in terms of cost to give Schmidt $10 million dollars, when Lester can probably come close to matching those numbers for $300,000? Plus, you have to surrender the starting second basemen of 2007, and you replace him. If Alex Gonzalez can get $3 million, how much are you going to have to give a decent 2B who has reached free agency? Let's guess $3 million to replace Pedroia, and another $3 million for a relief pitcher instead of Hansen. That's $16 million dollars spent versus $900,000. Besides, that's purely hypothetical. Can the Boston Red Sox afford to spend $150 million dollars on payroll? I doubt it. They have to dole out money to revenue sharing, and then get hit with a huge luxury tax. Not enough cash to go around to stay out of the red.

 

Next, age. Jason Schmidt will turn 34 to start the year 2007. Not many pitchers retain their fastballs that late in their career. That usually means pitchers will start to decline. Plus adjusting to the AL can almost certaintly add a half a run to his ERA. While he's having a good year this year, his strikeouts are down, usually meaning that his stuff has declined a bit. Schmidt will almost certaintly want a 4 year contract extenstion that will pay him until he's 38. By then, he could a gun slinger without any bullets left, putting the Red Sox on the hook for a lot of cash for a pitcher who doesn't have it anymore. Also, remember the last time Schmidt's fastball declined? The year was 2005, Schmidt's ERA climbed to 4.40, and for the first time since 2001 he failed to strike out more batters then IP. Maybe if Schmidt was 27 instead of 34, you'd think about it, but power pitchers decline with age. Don't make the mistake of giving up three promsing players for a pitcher certain to falter.

 

Real quickly. This is all contigent if the Giants fall out of the pennant race. There are five teams within two games of each other in the NL West. This being Bonds' last year, the Giants may be buyers.

I have some questions that no one has addressed. Why would other teams be willing to pay the price of prospects for Jason Schmidt? Are they more willing to sacrifice the future? Is the Red Sox FO just smarter? If the Red Sox have the same or better economic resources and prospects as these other teams that are pursuing Schmidt, why wouldn't the Sox prevail?

[CrespoBlows]

I have some questions that no one has addressed. Why would other teams be willing to pay the price of prospects for Jason Schmidt? Are they more willing to sacrifice the future? Is the Red Sox FO just smarter? If the Red Sox have the same or better economic resources and prospects as these other teams that are pursuing Schmidt, why wouldn't the Sox prevail?

 

Because no one is going to pay that price. Neither will the Red Sox. The Giants have no pressure to move Schmidt.

[a700hitter]

Because no one is going to pay that price. Neither will the Red Sox. The Giants have no pressure to move Schmidt.

Isn't Schmidt in the last year of his contract. Why wouldn't SF want to get something for him if they fall out of the race?

[CrespoBlows]

Isn't Schmidt in the last year of his contract. Why wouldn't SF want to get something for him if they fall out of the race?

 

Depends on your meaning of "something" if someone came and offered the Giants three prospects for Schmidt, I'm pretty sure he'd be gone. But, the Giants aren't going to take fringe players for Schmidt, when they're only two games out of contention.

[a700hitter]

Depends on your meaning of "something" if someone came and offered the Giants three prospects for Schmidt, I'm pretty sure he'd be gone. But, the Giants aren't going to take fringe players for Schmidt, when they're only two games out of contention.

I disagree that no one else will pay the price for Schmidt, and when and if they do, you'll have to answer my questions.

[CrespoBlows]

I disagree that no one else will pay the price for Schmidt, and when and if they do, you'll have to answer my questions.

 

To make sure we understand each other. I'm setting the bar at three prospects. If someone matches that offer, I'll be dumbfounded, but I will answer your questions.

[a700hitter]

To make sure we understand each other. I'm setting the bar at three prospects. If someone matches that offer, I'll be dumbfounded, but I will answer your questions.

Wait, what if someone gets him for less than three prospects, you won't answer then?

[CrespoBlows]

Wait, what if someone gets him for less than three prospects, you won't answer then?

 

If the Giants get two prospects for him, I won't be shocked. Then again, it all depends who they are. If their asking price is two scrubs, and they get that, I won't be shocked. In fact, I'd be shocked that the Red Sox didn't get involved. Will that really be the case? Doubtful. When Schmidt looked like he was declining last year, they wanted three prospects in return. Now, the Giants are a better team, and Schmidt has improved. They're going to trade him for less then three blue chip prospects? I doubt it.

[a700hitter]

If the Giants get two prospects for him, I won't be shocked. Then again, it all depends who they are. If their asking price is two scrubs, and they get that, I won't be shocked. In fact, I'd be shocked that the Red Sox didn't get involved. Will that really be the case? Doubtful. When Schmidt looked like he was declining last year, they wanted three prospects in return. Now, the Giants are a better team, and Schmidt has improved. They're going to trade him for less then three blue chip prospects? I doubt it.

You might be right, but can we agree that if Schmidt goes for two prospects, the Red Sox should be involved.

[CrespoBlows]

You might be right, but can we agree that if Schmidt goes for two prospects, the Red Sox should be involved.

 

Then again, it all depends on who those two prospects are. Back to your orginal point though, if the Giants are looking for two prospects the Red Sox should see if they can make a deal. That's the first step. The next step is, who do they want? If they want Jon Lester and Craig Hansen, then I wouldn't make that deal. Would you?

[a700hitter]

Then again, it all depends on who those two prospects are. Back to your orginal point though, if the Giants are looking for two prospects the Red Sox should see if they can make a deal. That's the first step. The next step is, who do they want? If they want Jon Lester and Craig Hansen, then I wouldn't make that deal. Would you?

No, I wouldn't send both, but I might give them one and Pedroia. If Lester keeps pitching like this and Hansen comes up and does well, a good part of the problems will be solved. I am just saying that the Sox may not have the luxury of waiting very long for them to start to contribute.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Then again, it all depends on who those two prospects are. Back to your orginal point though, if the Giants are looking for two prospects the Red Sox should see if they can make a deal. That's the first step. The next step is, who do they want? If they want Jon Lester and Craig Hansen, then I wouldn't make that deal. Would you?

 

I can't imagine the Giants would ask for Jon Lester and Craig Hansen for Jason Schmidt. When a team starts demanding rediculous prices they tend to end on bad terms with other teams. The fact is the Giants are not out of the race and probably won't be becasue the NL West is a terrible division. I bet in September with a .500 record they will still be in range to strike and win the division.

 

The deal with the Giants is they are a very old team. They have a few young guns on the rotation but I think a realistic trade would be something like: Willy Mo Pena and Dustin Pedroia for Jason Schmidt. Would I do that trade?? Not at this point in time because I think Jon Lester will be a very competitive #5 pitcher and we still don't know whats up with David Wells. If David Wells can come back there is no need for the Red Sox to make a move.

 

No, I wouldn't send both, but I might give them one and Pedroia. If Lester keeps pitching like this and Hansen comes up and does well, a good part of the problems will be solved. I am just saying that the Sox may not have the luxury of waiting very long for them to start to contribute.

 

We are fighting for first place and will be all season. If these guys can contribute by August for the stretch run then we are fine. There is really no reason at this point to do something crazy....stay in the mix and work on getting players healthy for the final couple months....that is all that really matters....until then just stay-a-float.

[CrespoBlows]

I can't imagine the Giants would ask for Jon Lester and Craig Hansen for Jason Schmidt. When a team starts demanding rediculous prices they tend to end on bad terms with other teams. The fact is the Giants are not out of the race and probably won't be becasue the NL West is a terrible division. I bet in September with a .500 record they will still be in range to strike and win the division.

 

Why would that shock you? Just last June, the Giants wanted Hanley Ramirez, Jonathan Papelbon, and Brandon Moss for Jason Schmidt. Just today, the Royals asked for Phillip Hughes for Reggie Sanders. The GM's understand why the other teams do that. Trying to get maximium value for their team. Hell, look at Chuck LaMar, he was notorious for trying to fleece teams, the Red Sox still tried to deal with them. I don't see why you'd think that MLB teams would kill a trade partner just because they wanted a good deal. If that were the case, no team would trade with one another.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Why would that shock you? Just last June, the Giants wanted Hanley Ramirez, Jonathan Papelbon, and Brandon Moss for Jason Schmidt. Just today, the Royals asked for Phillip Hughes for Reggie Sanders. The GM's understand why the other teams do that. Trying to get maximium value for their team. Hell, look at Chuck LaMar, he was notorious for trying to fleece teams, the Red Sox still tried to deal with them. I don't see why you'd think that MLB teams would kill a trade partner just because they wanted a good deal. If that were the case, no team would trade with one another.

 

Thats strange I never heard the Giants requesting Ramirez, Papelbon, and Moss for Schmidt. Basically thats just another way of a GM saying we aren't trading this guy right now. Trying to get maximum value is one thing....trying to rip off another team is different. I really think being a GM with a reputation of trying to make ludicrous deals really limits the moves you can make. A team may inquire about a certain player but if you always request the world for them....you probably won't get much done.

 

I guess it wouldn't "shock" me if the Giants asked for that.....but I would expect them to work with the Red Sox if they were serious about making a trade....otherwise you just hang up the phone.