Trot Nixons Power Outage

[TheRivernator]

Trot is better for you this yr because he is a very patient hitter and he will hit for average. Wily Mo is not this hitter guys, and you know it. He is showing signs of changing his game plan at the plate, but you dont see a guy all of a sudden change philosophy as a hitter. He'll hit his highs and he will hit his lows, but as streaky a hitter as he is, you look for him to have small incremental changes. He'll hit you 18-20HRs this yr in limited duty. His average will finish up in the .260-.280 range, OBP in the .340 range and he'll show a much better walk rate. Trot will hit around .300, he'll hit you 15HR and he'll have an OBP around .360-.380 while playing great D in right. Wily Mo is your future who is having a great start, but he is a streaky guy and will eventually slide back into the player he once was. But small, incremental improvements are what you look for, and he is a guy who has already shown that. He will break out next yr....

[Mr Crunchy]

lefties feast on chen and a lesson for all you future dads out there

keep your sons right hand tied behind his back till hes 15 and you too can have a major leaguer

jeff fassero is still in baseball

tommy glavine is still in baseball

wells is still in baseball

bruce chen is a starter

josh towers??

mike stanton??

tony fossas pitched till he was 46

 

if youre left handed theres hope

 

now as far as wily mo goes

if say dontrelle willis or jason schmidt are on the table on 7-1 and the yanks and sox are bidding on them......

tell me you wouldnt send wily mo in a deal that would bring us a decent pitcher and keep 1 from the bowels of jerome avenue aka the bronx??

 

pena is a better hitter today than he was in march

he still needs more discipline at the plate but hes going to the opposite field quite a bit lately

i dont see him hitting .300 this year either but he could easily hit 25 homers if crisp remains out another month and the gets his ab's.

he is a liability in the field now but with time he should get better

[TheRivernator]

agree totally seano. He is a project, and one that looks good now, but will have his lows soon. Baseball is funny like that. If you have the chance at a A#1 starting pitcher, you dont even think twice....

[Mr Crunchy]

the kid is an enigma

7 years in the pros ?

and

he still cant lay off the hi heat and the change ups in the dirt but hes getting better

he needs time in the minors he really does

but it aint happening

i think in a line up with notoriously patient hitters like ortiz manny and youk he can watch and learn a thing or 2

in cinci he had a twin in adam dunn,a guy who can hit the ball 500 feet but whiffs 200xs a year

we dont need that s*** here in boston....if pena continues to go the other way,remains patient at the plate and doesnt f*** up too badly in the field

he's going to be our next rightfielder when nixon leaves in the fall...unless of course they send him packing to miami for willis

[TheRivernator]

the kid is an enigma

7 years in the pros ?

and

he still cant lay off the hi heat and the change ups in the dirt but hes getting better

he needs time in the minors he really does

but it aint happening

i think in a line up with notoriously patient hitters like ortiz manny and youk he can watch and learn a thing or 2

in cinci he had a twin in adam dunn,a guy who can hit the ball 500 feet but whiffs 200xs a year

we dont need that s*** here in boston....if pena continues to go the other way,remains patient at the plate and doesnt f*** up too badly in the field

he's going to be our next rightfielder when nixon leaves in the fall...unless of course they send him packing to miami for willis

 

As far as pitchers on the market, ESPNRadio was talking about it this morning. Miami will talk to any team inquiring about Willis, but they want young MLB seasoned players in return. This would include Papelbon or Pena for you guys or Wang and Cano for us. It aint worth it. The one guy who will get the bidding the most though is teamated with Bonds. Schmidt is 33 and has a 10 mil option that the giants have already told him, they will not pick up. He could be had for two top prospects or one if you want to eat the salaries of Steve Finley or Mike Matheny. Also, I bet you could package lesser prospects like Martinez and DelCarmen plus eating finleys contract so they can start over.

 

They also said that Zito will be dealt, but the market hasnt developed yet and you can bet beane will get a kings ransom....

[Mr Crunchy]

of the 3 i least like zito

willis pitched well last nite but has had a rocky year

schmidt on the other hand??

i dont know

i loved the guy a couple summers ago and he made me a ton of money over the years but hes been around the 4area in era and has a lot of miles on him

he still throws mid90s

zito should go to the national league if hes smart

hes very very beatable

[TheRivernator]

of the 3 i least like zito

willis pitched well last nite but has had a rocky year

schmidt on the other hand??

i dont know

i loved the guy a couple summers ago and he made me a ton of money over the years but hes been around the 4area in era and has a lot of miles on him

he still throws mid90s

zito should go to the national league if hes smart

hes very very beatable

 

especially against us....

[Mr Crunchy]

bingo

why would we get a guy who ny bludgeons for the stretch run?

foreign arms down the stretch,a guy like schmidt who ny never sees

willis,with his awkward delivery,,would be a new look and something that theyve never seen

[SCM33]

Crunchy....you are dead wrong.

 

Send WMP to the minors? So he can do what....murder AAA pitching? Whats that going to do for him? He has gotten better at the major league level everyday. There is no reason he should be sent to AAA to work on killing s***** curveballs and nothing fastballs.

 

He has already shown the ability to hit major league pitching, and continues to make adjustments. He will learn nothing in AAA.

[Mr Crunchy]

hes not going to the minor leagues but i think a few months of playing every day would help him

dont you??

he needs 500abs a year to develop properly and he needs to see a lot of the outfield unless he plans on dh'ing his entire career

he never had more than 350abs in a season and thats in cincinatti

why you ask??

hes been in the big leagues since he was 17 and he has the plate discipline of a little leaguer and he couldnt field for s***.

give him 600abs and he'll shatter the strike out records and i mean shatter them

 

he needs to develop patience at the plate

its easier to do that in pawtucket than in yankee stadium in a pennant race

thats my only point here.

 

perhaps playing with ramirez ortiz and youkillis,men who wear pitchers out,will help him.

playing with adam dunn didnt help him at all,they could be twins.

 

the point is moot

i believe due to the contract this guy has if we send him down we need to waive him and thats not happening because of his upside.....

upside is only good if you fullfill it

 

as of today he resembles sam horn a lot more than he resembles manny ramirez but i too see him improving and thats why i would like to see him hit every day,not just against lefties.

[SCM33]

hes not going to the minor leagues but i think a few months of playing every day would help him

dont you??

he needs 500abs a year to develop properly and he needs to see a lot of the outfield unless he plans on dh'ing his entire career

he never had more than 350abs in a season and thats in cincinatti

why you ask??

hes been in the big leagues since he was 17 and he has the plate discipline of a little leaguer and he couldnt field for s***.

give him 600abs and he'll shatter the strike out records and i mean shatter them

 

he needs to develop patience at the plate

its easier to do that in pawtucket than in yankee stadium in a pennant race

thats my only point here.

 

perhaps playing with ramirez ortiz and youkillis,men who wear pitchers out,will help him.

playing with adam dunn didnt help him at all,they could be twins.

 

the point is moot

i believe due to the contract this guy has if we send him down we need to waive him and thats not happening because of his upside.....

upside is only good if you fullfill it

 

as of today he resembles sam horn a lot more than he resembles manny ramirez but i too see him improving and thats why i would like to see him hit every day,not just against lefties.

 

 

1. At this pace, he will get 500 AB

2. He is playing the OF, and playing CF very well actually.

3. You contradict yourself. If he has the plate discipline of a minor leaguer, then why was he drafted at 17? Why has he been in the big leaugues for almost 5 years?

4. I am guessing he could play in the field since he played in the NL and played many many games for the Reds over the last few seasons. So that must mean he can field at least a little.

5. He wont shatter the K record, because he continues to get better with time.

6. He wont develop patience in pawtucket hitting off of s***** AAA pitchers who dont throw big league breaking stuff, or have big league life on their fastball, he is a big league ball player and need to learn up here, which he has been doing well.

7. He has not appeared fazed by the Yankees in either series.

8. Wily Mo Pena has already had a better career than Sam Horn, and Wily Mo has already shown his scary power at the big league level.

9. He is actually hitting .150 against lefties or some crazy number like that. He is killing right handers.

[ORS]

He hasn't been in the bigs since he was 17, but he's been under a MLB contract since then. When he was signed, not drafted, out of the D.R., he was an uber-hyped bonus baby, and for good reason with his tremendous power. However, the MLB contract the Yanks signed him to made sure that he ran out of MiLB options by the time he was 21, meaning he would have go on the waiver wire for Cincy to send him down, something that never would have worked. Thus, you have underdeveloped potential on a steep learning curve in the bigs.

 

I agree with Crunch; the best thing for him would be consistent playing time right now. In fact, his dramatic improvement has come at the end of a stretch where he's been playing everyday. The progress will slow when he starts seeing some pine time, but they can't do anything about that due to his situation (other than trading/benching Trot).

[TheRivernator]

1. At this pace, he will get 500 AB

2. He is playing the OF, and playing CF very well actually.

well, he is on pace for 500 ab because of injury. And he is playing CF rather well? More like he is holding onto a raging bull with both hands and hasnt fallen off yet. He isnt a CFer, well not a good one at least.

3. You contradict yourself. If he has the plate discipline of a minor leaguer, then why was he drafted at 17? Why has he been in the big leaugues for almost 5 years?

He has been in the majors since 17 because his agent forced the yankees to sign him to a MLB deal, hence he cannot be sent down to the minor leagues without his permission. When he signed, the yankees were in the midst of WS win #3 out of 4 and we didnt have time to groom a raw 17 yr old.

4. I am guessing he could field since he played in the NL and played many many games for the Reds over the last seasons. So that must mean he can field at least a little.

No it means that he tried to field. He was putrid in the OF but was pressed into duty because Junior had all those injuries. His future is as a DH.

5. He wont shatter the K record, because he continues to get better with time.

More nonsense. He would have had 250 K's last yr if he played the entire yr, and that is shattering

6. He wont develop patience in pawtucket hitting off of s***** AAA pitchers who dont throw big league breaking stuff, or have big league life on his fastball, he is a big league ball player and need to learn up here, which he has been doing well.

Actually you are wrong. Most great hitters develop some patience in the minors then they come up to the bigs and develop it further. You can afford to be patient when you are confident in your ability to hit with 2 strikes. That confidence comes when you are playing against inferior talent.

7. He has not appeared fazed by the Yankees in either series.

you mean in the 3 games that he played against us. Small sample size, early in the yr. 4 for 12....

8. Willy Mo Pena has already had a better career than Sam Horn, and Wily Mo has already shown his scary power at the big league level.

Kevin Maas also had scary power and a solid yr #1. Then he fizzled out. BTW, if sam horn is your measuring stick, then you arent measuring well enough.

9. He is actually hitting .150 against lefties or some crazy number like that. He is killing right handers.

He is hitting .200 against lefties. That number will come up. Concurrently, the avg vs righties will go down. He is a career .250 hitter for a reason, he wont morph into a .320 hitter overnight.

 

Consider yourself owned...

[SCM33]

Consider myself owned? You took my quotes and just gave your own unintelligent insight. Its argumentative, not fact.

 

Further evidence of an idiot....I didnt use Sam Horn as a measuring stick, someone else comapred his career right now to WMP, READ THE WHOLE THREAD.

 

Can someone tel me how to use the ignore user option?

[TheRivernator]

Consider myself owned? You took my quotes and just gave your own unintelligent insight. Its argumentative, not fact, you f***ing moron.

 

Further evidence of an idiot....I didnt use Sam Horn as a measuring stick, someone else comapred his career right now to WMP, READ THE WHOLE THREAD.

 

OWNNNNNNNNNNED, what a retard. You are very disliked.

I am very disliked and I am a retard, hmmmmmmmmmm. Yeah ok there skippy, I have seen ZERO intelligent posts from you. I showed how almost every single one of your points to Mr Crunchy were baseless, homeristic crap and hence you were owned. If you cannot handle it, then go out and hang with all the other little children your age. You are in over your head bub....

[Mr Crunchy]

he lost a ball last nite late that almost cost us a run

hes bad in the field,not very good,a complete liability in right field,shaky at best in center

he was drafted at 17 because he could hit the ball 500 feet

he wont get 500abs here when crisp comes back

when that occurs he'll be used to spell nixon against lefties,crisp or manny on turf games or in the back end of a double header,next year when nixon leaves he'll be counted on every day...

saying he wont shatter the strikeout record is wishful thinking unless he develops patience

hes a career .250 hitter with an obp of .310...

116ks in 310ab last year.....

thats almost impossible to digest

this in the national league central

in hitters ballparks where stiffs like chris carpenter win cy youngs....

 

dont get me wrong here,hes done fine by me so far

hes stepped up and done a good job in crisps absence

better than i expected

when coco returns you'll find wily at the end of the bench,sitting with jt snow dustin mohr alex cora and the hitting coach and im not sure thats best for his development are you??

 

theres a reason hes never had 340abs and played over 110games while playing for a last place team

the reason is hes got no plate discipline and he cant field for s***

hes been in the pros since 02

thats 4 solid years of development he missed sitting on a bench in cincinatti and i dont want us to make the same mistake because its obvious to me and anyone who watches him that hes got the skills but needs direction.

[SCM33]

I see your points Crunchy. But I honestly feel he is way to good to send to AAA. Why send him down there when he is contributing offensively right now? Why weaken the team? Why not keep him up so we have more bullets to gun in a gunfight?

 

What he did in Cincinatti is irrevelent. If we thought that way we would have sent Ortiz to AAA a few years back and he may not have ever became the player he is today. An injury opened up the door for Ortiz, and the rest is history. What Ortiz did in Minnnesota was irrevelant because he became a completely different player in Boston, just like WMP has. Even if WMP one day ends up seeing more time on the pine, I think he will still get enough playing time and guidance to grow with the big league team.

[Mr Crunchy]

point taken and understood

i dont want to see him out there in september hitting .240 with 15 errors and 166ks in 400abs

thats my nightmare but as you alluded to above,hes done a pretty damn good job given the chance so who do you sit?

the vet nixon who hits .300 and plays a solid rf?

crisp.who's contract they just extended ?

manny??

3 outfielders and our dh job is taken....he did play some 3rd early in his career??

 

COME ON MJ

play nice for chrissakes or we'll have to revisit the yankee staff from 1989

[TheRivernator]

point taken and understood

 

COME ON MJ

play nice for chrissakes or we'll have to revisit the yankee staff from 1989

 

you wouldnt....

[Mr Crunchy]

i can rattle off these names like they played last nite

 

i'll start easy as the 1st 6 inches is usually consenual

a battery of

JOHN ""THE CANDY MAN"" CANDELARIA AND JAMIE FUKIN QUIRK

 

hows lee guetterman doin these days?

[TheRivernator]

aw;lkfhn rlkjmnlkaw kjwelfkj wljfffewkjkfj ewffewflkj

[TheRivernator]

It was so bad that I actually asked my father if the yankees were the worst team in the history of baseball. He laughed at me.....

[americantrotter]

Wily Mo has no options left, so if Trot stays healthy when Crisp comes back we'll have a good dilema.

[TheRivernator]

Trot will have value, but do you unceremoniously dump a guy who has been a hard nosed player for you guys for his whole career? Or do you let him walk off into the sunset as he chooses and take the draft picks as compensation...

[ORS]

I see your points Crunchy. But I honestly feel he is way to good to send to AAA. Why send him down there when he is contributing offensively right now? Why weaken the team? Why not keep him up so we have more bullets to gun in a gunfight?

I think the answer to this revealed in the answer to another question. What do the Sox expect out of him? If he's just here to be a RH platoon-mate/4th-OF, then it makes no sense to send him down*. If he's here being groomed as part of the future, consistent playing time to continue his development is essential.

 

*This is a moot point since he can't be sent down.

[Cocos Disciples]

lefties feast on chen and a lesson for all you future dads out there

keep your sons right hand tied behind his back till hes 15 and you too can have a major leaguer

jeff fassero is still in baseball

tommy glavine is still in baseball

wells is still in baseball

bruce chen is a starter

josh towers??

mike stanton??

tony fossas pitched till he was 46

 

if youre left handed theres hope

 

now as far as wily mo goes

if say dontrelle willis or jason schmidt are on the table on 7-1 and the yanks and sox are bidding on them......

tell me you wouldnt send wily mo in a deal that would bring us a decent pitcher and keep 1 from the bowels of jerome avenue aka the bronx??

 

pena is a better hitter today than he was in march

he still needs more discipline at the plate but hes going to the opposite field quite a bit lately

i dont see him hitting .300 this year either but he could easily hit 25 homers if crisp remains out another month and the gets his ab's.

he is a liability in the field now but with time he should get better

 

Josh Towers, not a lefty.

And no, I wouldn't trade Pena for Schmidt straight up.

[TheRivernator]

Josh Towers, not a lefty.

And no, I wouldn't trade Pena for Schmidt straight up.

 

you are both a homer and crazy...

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

And no' date=' I wouldn't trade Pena for Schmidt straight up.[/quote']

 

I would....it would be like trading Bronson Arroyo for Jason Schmidt....HAHAHA

[CrespoBlows]

Let me clear up some mistakes on this thread:

 

If Pena were to get 500 AB's, at this pace he'd strike out 160 times. Alarming yes, but he'd be about 35 short of tying the record.

 

Though a small sample, Pena is actually playing an above-average CF. He is at a +1 in the FRAA catagory (Fielding Runs Above Average)

 

Pena has shown some marked improvement at the plate, as pointed out by Harold Reynolds. Reynolds states, that being traded to the Red Sox was probably the best thing that will ever happen to him. Already, Pena is showing that he can go the other way. The knock on Pena before was that he was too eager to pull everything. That hasn't been the case this year. Though he will blunder often, he's still a work in progress. He has however, showed that he can work on the things he needs to develop in order to be an elite hitter.

 

Lastly, I do agree that being moved to AAA would help, but it's a moot point.

[TheKilo]

And no, I wouldn't trade Pena for Schmidt straight up.

 

 

 

You gotta be absolutely joking me. You make that trade every day of the week.