Matt Clement thread...

[Sox Fan on Cape]

theyre 0 for this century in championships

they tell us their minor leagues have been ravaged for 5 years now

then they come up with wang cano and cabrerra just last year??

their roster resembles the 1998 all star team,they got bigger issues this year than theyve had in the last 10 which in essense makes them more desperate for help than ever

payroll is not a concern of theirs in 2006 nor has it been since CBS owned them nor was it 85years ago when they bought babe ruth from us.

deep pockets my friend

 

im not a clemens guy either but to think that he wont be an improvement over biggie smalls boogaloo chacon and the other stiffs is naive i fear

 

Most of which aren't doing twat. As far as Clemens being an up grade, it just shows how bad their current staff is.

 

On a little aside, how the hell are the Sox with Wells pitching a favorite tonight ?

[Mr Crunchy]

tampa bay has the power to make me a favorite if i was pitching against them

however they are going against a damn good pitcher tonight

so what do you do??

take wells as a small -115-120 favorite

or

lay it on the kid who is amongst the best lefties in the league?

if it were kc i'd play wells till the cows come home but

this tampa team has some courage and some free swingers and will be heard from tonite and of course scotty K has the muscle to stick it in our ass

 

good to see another guy who questions clemens on board by the way

i hate that texas faggot

[seabeachfred]

Chin Man, let me run this by you since you mentioned someone on the Dodgers. I live out here is So. Cal and the papers are full of reports of how the Dodgers are anxious to get rid of Odalis Perez. He must have done something wrong somewhere, but this can can pitch and the one thing that impresses about him is his ability to best his team's biggest opponents on their home field. He has been lights out against the Giants up in SF, and I think this guy getting around our classy Dominicans Papi and Manny would have a very positive effect on him. He wouldn't cost us much either since the Dodgers want to get rid of his contract that runs this year and next.

[seabeachfred]

Alvarez reminds me too much of DiNardo; a junk ball lefthander who almost throws sidearm---a one plane pitcher who will get eaten up in the Majors. I only wish Lester would get his s*** together and start showing us that he has some balls to go along with his ability. He should have been ready to join us by now if his stuff and speed are of any indication. As for Clement, on all the Red Sox Boards I have always talked about his stuff and potential and to stay the course with him, but his pathetic performance against the Yankees told me something about the guy I didn't want to admit----Clement is gutless!!!!

[RoyNHSox]

Yeah, all the signs seem to suggest Clement is a head case and probably the Boston market isn’t the place for him. But I’m still in hopes that given the right balance of managing, coaching, and psychotherapy he can still be a viable option for the Sox rotation.

 

It would be great if Lester was ready for the call but he's only been in AAA for about 6 weeks. He still needs time to develop his secondary pitches. He wasn't a college pitcher and at 22, he still has some maturing to do IMO.

[TheKilo]

Chin Man, let me run this by you since you mentioned someone on the Dodgers. I live out here is So. Cal and the papers are full of reports of how the Dodgers are anxious to get rid of Odalis Perez. He must have done something wrong somewhere, but this can can pitch and the one thing that impresses about him is his ability to best his team's biggest opponents on their home field. He has been lights out against the Giants up in SF, and I think this guy getting around our classy Dominicans Papi and Manny would have a very positive effect on him. He wouldn't cost us much either since the Dodgers want to get rid of his contract that runs this year and next.

 

 

Doesn't he have injury issues?

[Mr Crunchy]

Yeah, all the signs seem to suggest Clement is a head case and probably the Boston market isn’t the place for him. But I’m still in hopes that given the right balance of managing, coaching, and psychotherapy he can still be a viable option for the Sox rotation.

 

I dont know roy

clement broke in with small town sandiego and was also maddening in his inconsistancies and in chicago he had the rep to alway pitch well enough to lose.

hes not dependable in the american league

[TheRivernator]

Clemens is the only pitcher that will cost them money.....They can't use cash to get either Schmidt or Willis as why would teams want to do that. In order to get a quality pitcher through a trade it will cost NY to part with some very good prospects.

 

Here's the deal, the yankees are very good at disguising cash inside of trades. Dont think there wont be some sort of money dump if the yankees need it. To answer your question crunchy, yes, Schmidt will be on the block if the giants fall out of contention because he is a FA after this season. Look at that Giants team. They are old as f*** and have some cash coming off the books. They also have some bears of contracts on that team too, with Steve Finley making 9.5 mil this season and Durham, Alou, Matheny, Morris, etc etc etc making the company dime while laying eggs. Also, the yankees have some very good young talent, but that talent is VERY young. Throw one prospect, one marginal AAAA player like Phillips or one overachieving player like Melky into the mix, we can get Schmidt. How you ask? Because we'll take Finley and eat his money. Or we could take Morris and eat his money. s***, in the RJ deal we sent the DBacks 48 million dollars just for shits and giggles. Do you really think the s*** we sent to arizona was worth what Randy was worth at the time? Money talks, we have a lot of it, and we arent afraid to spend it....

[Beckett95]

i could see this as a possibility towards the trade deadline if SF is out of the playoff race

 

Clippard, Melky, Phillips

FOR

Schmidt, Finley

[CrespoBlows]

i could see this as a possibility towards the trade deadline if SF is out of the playoff race

 

Clippard, Melky, Phillips

FOR

Schmidt, Finley

 

Finley doesn't have a contract that would bog teams down. His contract expires at the conclusion of the season.

 

The Giants won't take crap for the sole purpose of shedding salaries. Peter McGowan is an extremely wealthy individual, who has shown no qualms of spending money. The Giants payroll is at $90 million dollars, and they have a strong fan base. You think they would risk alienating that by trading Schmidt for those three pieces of s***? Keep deluding yourself. McGowan fianaced AT&T Park, he needs to keep attendence high. You'd think if he traded Schmidt, it would be for a pitcher like a Jon Lester, or a Phillip Hughes, one who would not only pay short-term dividens, but would be a franchise centerpiece. Clippard, Melky, and Phillips are nice players, but the Giants would destroy their fan base if they pulled off a trade like that.

 

Remember last year, when they wanted three top prospects for Schmidt? It's going to be like that again this year.

[a700hitter]

theyre 0 for this century in championships

Correction: They are 0 for this millennium.

[TheRivernator]

Finley is just one of them. I listed a few who have awful contracts that the yankees could eat. Here's the deal, the giants know that the upcoming FA class is great and the pitching available will be great. BUT, they have a 100 mil payroll and even when Bonds contrt expires, they'll still have a ton of cash on the roster taken up in older players. Think about it, last yr, the giants wanted 3 prospects because the pitching available was awful. This yr, they will likely want the flexibility to go out and get a Mulder, a Zito, or a Pettitte....

[CrespoBlows]

Finley is just one of them. I listed a few who have awful contracts that the yankees could eat. Here's the deal, the giants know that the upcoming FA class is great and the pitching available will be great. BUT, they have a 100 mil payroll and even when Bonds contrt expires, they'll still have a ton of cash on the roster taken up in older players. Think about it, last yr, the giants wanted 3 prospects because the pitching available was awful. This yr, they will likely want the flexibility to go out and get a Mulder, a Zito, or a Pettitte....

 

What? No, they won't. When Bonds leaves their payroll will shrink down to $72 million dollars. I don't understand how you got your numbers there.

 

You keep bringing up bad contracts, but why? The Giants are fine. They make plently of money. They don't need the Yankees to eat their contracts. The small market crippling contract issue doesn't make much sense. The Giants aren't one of those teams. But, just for the sake of argument, I'm going to disect each of the players you brought up.

 

Finley makes 7 million, Alou's contract expires after the year, and Durham's expires after the year.

 

They are only on the hook in '07 for Matheny and Morris' contracts.

[TheRivernator]

crespo, my point is, once Bonds leaves, so will their publicity (good or bad). You have to figure that he is one of the biggest driving forces for their revenue. SF is a bigger market, but they arent a top market for baseball. Once their drawing power leaves, they'll have to make a few splashes. That requires cash. Morris was signed to a 4 yr deal and he has been awful. Either way, I think they'll accept less talent if they can save some bank. This offseason will be a very lucrative one for FA pitchers, trust me, they'll want all the cash they can get....

[TheRivernator]

If this is a Clement thread, this pic has to go here, this was hilarious....

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_MC_carl_uniform.jpg

[seabeachfred]

Crespo, I never trust the Yankees to stay pat and stay the course. They have shown time and again that they will open their checkbook to get what they want. If they don't have the prospects they will pay cash, and there are a lot of half-ass teams that would take the cash and pocket it because of the shitpile organizations they are. We have a better farm system than the Yankees and that means from top to bottom. If such a pitcher as Schmidt would become available we have to pitch in there and do everything we can to get such a guy and keep him out of the hands of the Yankees because that man could make the difference. Same with other players. There will most definately be a salary dump come July or August and we aren't exactly a bunch of organ grinders with a tin cup. We have money and if we spend it wisely and make good trades we can get our share of what talent becomes available.

[TheRivernator]

Okay, lets take a look at the team that will be out of it for the most part....

 

Baltimore- Benson, Chen, Lopez

TB- Hendrickson

Minnesota- Radke, Silva, Lohse

KC- Elarton, Affeldt

Seattle- Moyer, Meche, Piniero

LAA- Escobar, Weaver

Oakland maybe- Zito, Loaiza

Cleveland maybe- Westbrook, Byrd, Johnson

Toronto maybe- Lilly, Towers (nobody wants him)

Atlanta maybe- Potentially Smoltz, Thomson, Ramirez

Philly maybe- Lieber, Lidle, Wolf

Washington- Hernandez, Ortiz, Armas Jr.

Florida- Moehler, Maybe Willis

Houston if they are out of it- Pettitte

Milwaukee maybe- Davis

Chicago- if the rumors about their willingness to blow up and start over are true, then Prior and Wood will be on the block. If those rumors arent, then Maddux will likely be the only guy on the block

Pittsburgh- Oliver Perez if anyone wants him

Rockies- Jennings, Fogg, Cook

SD- Park, Williams

SF- Morris, Schmidt

Those are the guys who will be talked about at the deadline. Some great arms on that list. Some great pitchers on that list.

[CrespoBlows]

crespo, my point is, once Bonds leaves, so will their publicity (good or bad). You have to figure that he is one of the biggest driving forces for their revenue. SF is a bigger market, but they arent a top market for baseball. Once their drawing power leaves, they'll have to make a few splashes. That requires cash. Morris was signed to a 4 yr deal and he has been awful. Either way, I think they'll accept less talent if they can save some bank. This offseason will be a very lucrative one for FA pitchers, trust me, they'll want all the cash they can get....

 

Three. You keep changing the figures to help your argument. At least use factual information when you try to make a point.

 

Once Bonds leaves they'll need major league talent to help rebuild the team. Clippard, Melky, and Phillips won't cut it.

[CrespoBlows]

Crespo, I never trust the Yankees to stay pat and stay the course.

 

You're completely missing the point.

 

I'm talking about the San Francisco Giants. Not the New York Yankees.

[Mr Crunchy]

san fran may be solvent fiscally as they play in a beautiful park and have bonds filling up the stands every nite in his quest for 755

frisco has always been a midlevel market

not as big as the dodgers,bigger than the oakland gays

schmidt is just 1 guy who i covet

as mj said theres a few horses on the market come july this season depending on how the races are going at the time

last year the nl west had 4 teams at .495 most of the year so no one is ever out of it till september

 

this is a clement thread but clements ballessness begs us to discuss other options

[TheRivernator]

Three. You keep changing the figures to help your argument. At least use factual information when you try to make a point.

 

Once Bonds leaves they'll need major league talent to help rebuild the team. Clippard, Melky, and Phillips won't cut it.

 

They wont rebuild though, because if they want to keep the post barry revenue coming, they'll need to put some semblance of a good team on the field. So, getting extra cash and increasing their chances of landing a big time pitcher and locking up their big time pitcher in the offseason will be beneficial. As crunch said, the giants are a big market because of bonds, when he leaves, they wont be able to sustain an 80+ mil payroll....