Wily Mo revisited

[Mr Crunchy]

whats his career mark against the yanks??

i dont know it but ive never seen him beat them

maybe its my perception

[seabeachfred]

What I meant Crunch was that you don't put retirees into the unemployed category, do you? I'm getting my state retirement check every month and another on the interest of my tax shelter. Some might say I'm on a sort of dole, but I worked for over 40 years. Anyway, I read that other post of yours and had to comment.

[Mr Crunchy]

of course not

i was refering to those who havent yet

retired eh??

god bless ya

somewhere around 2050 i should be debt free enuff to retire

[a700hitter]

Arroyo won his 13th game today, helping the Reds down the stretch. If nothing else, he is consistent and reliable.

[Cityofchampions33]

he needs a friggin haircut

[rician blast]

If nothing else' date=' he is consistent and reliable.[/quote']

 

ya think?

 

sh*t, coulda used a guy like that in Boston this year.

[Mr Crunchy]

2006 13 9 31 31 3 1 213.1 200 84 78 29 52 165 0 0 0 3.29

Projected 15 10 35 35 3 1 241 227 95 88 33 59 187 0 0 0 3.29

 

it makes me puke

[jsinger121]

You do realize that Arroyo would not have put up these stats in the AL?

[Mr Crunchy]

he wouldnt put era and k#s like these

but

i think the win totals are and innings pitched are about right

[seabeachfred]

Gentlemen, this still could work out well for us next year. If the FO goes out and signs a top notch pitcher like Jason Schmidt and trades for one of the better set-up men in baseball, Arroyo's loss will not hurt all that much. I have become convinced that Wily Mo Pena could become a real asset for our team. For a guy with tremendous power, he has become also a good hitter for average and driving in runs. My only gripe is that Francona should be playing this guy every damn game. Then, again, I always have gripes with our esteemed manager because it seems everything he does makes Red Sox fans gripe.

[rician blast]

he wouldnt put era and k#s like these

but

i think the win totals are and innings pitched are about right

 

agree because WITHIN each league every pitcher is facing the same competition as another, so its relative.

 

The discrepancy between AL and NL stats comes in the fact that the AL is currently dominant offensively...with the DH being a part of this difference.

 

Arroyo is tracking to have the same kind of numbers in terms of wins and IP that we'd have expected from him if still with Boston.

 

Then again, WMP is tracking to be the same player he was in the NL too. Part time.

[riverside sluggers]

Then again' date=' WMP is tracking to be the same player he was in the NL too. Part time.[/quote']

 

Obviously this move was made for the future.

 

-- Trot's contract is up this year. All accounts are he could move on to another team... Hmm enter Wily Mo for 07 perhaps who has outperformed Trot by far while playing in less games/less ABs than Trot has this season. t just stresses me out that Tito continues to give the starts to Trot. Wily has proven already the job is his

[Mr Crunchy]

agreed

finally

i believe all here can agree that wmp is the right fielder next year IF manny and coco come back

nothing is in cement here

i assume they've already started dealing manny as they have for the entire time this ownership group has owned the team and coco's miserable season has him on the block as well i would think

 

this team will be a lot different next season with most of the members of the 04 team jettisoned off

[rician blast]

Obviously this move was made for the future.

 

 

that is quite obvious...however, IMO, the future would be better served by having a 12-16 win-per-year pitcher than WMP.

[example1]

Clement and wake are both 12-14 game winners and they ain't going anywhere any time soon. don't worry, we have plenty of #4-5 starters for the next few years. You looking for a few more of those guys too? I hear Jamie Moyer and Mike Boddicker are both available too.

 

Look guys, Arroyo wasn't going to be the pitcher of the future for this team. He just wasn't.

 

You can look at it in two ways:

either the Red Sox did something stupid giving up this guy for ONLY Wily Mo Pena

 

or

 

The red sox were smart. They somehow got this guy to resign for much less than his value and (because of that cheap contract) they were able to trade him for a guy who has Ryan Howard type power and who is still very young.

 

I see it as the later. It was either Sign and Trade or let him go for nothing.

[a700hitter]

You do realize that Arroyo would not have put up these stats in the AL?

His ERA would have been higher as is the league's ERA, but he would have put up between 10-15 wins and made 30-35 starts just like he dide in the AL.

[example1]

His ERA would have been higher as is the league's ERA' date=' but he would have put up between 10-15 wins and made 30-35 starts just like he dide in the AL.[/quote']

 

You really think the Sox bullpen would have held any of his wins? Especially during this last 40 day stretch? This team has been horrible. '99 Pedro would be like 0-3 with a 1.00 ERA over that stretch. This team had such a bad stretch that any middle-tier pitcher would have had more losses than wins during that stretch and this team still wouldn't be in the playoffs.

 

Crisp

Loretta

Youkilis

Lowell

Hinske

Carlos Pena

Mirabelli

Kaplar

Pedroia

 

Again, no pitcher is going to get this team into the playoffs. None.

[a700hitter]

You really think the Sox bullpen would have held any of his wins? Especially during this last 40 day stretch? This team has been horrible. '99 Pedro would be like 0-3 with a 1.00 ERA over that stretch. This team had such a bad stretch that any middle-tier pitcher would have had more losses than wins during that stretch and this team still wouldn't be in the playoffs.

 

Crisp

Loretta

Youkilis

Lowell

Hinske

Carlos Pena

Mirabelli

Kaplar

Pedroia

 

Again, no pitcher is going to get this team into the playoffs. None.

He would hqave been able to go deep into games in that stretch. Something that "The Ultimate Loser" and others could not do. When combined with Schilling and Beckett, Arroyo's talent to eat innings may have taken some heat off the pen. Look at the 2005 pen with Harville, Remlinger and other assworted crap. It was no better than the '06 bullpen. In fact the '06 bullpen was probably worse as it didn't have a dominant closer. Yet Arroyo won 14 in '05. There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't have won 10-15 this year for the Sox. The bullpen sucked, but the snowball started rolling downhill when starters couldn't get past the 4th or 5th inning on a daily basis.

[example1]

He would hqave been able to go deep into games in that stretch. Something that "The Ultimate Loser" and others could not do. When combined with Schilling and Beckett' date=' Arroyo's talent to eat innings may have taken some heat off the pen. Look at the 2005 pen with Harville, Remlinger and other assworted crap. It was no better than the '06 bullpen. In fact the '06 bullpen was probably worse as it didn't have a dominant closer. Yet Arroyo won 14 in '05. There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't have won 10-15 this year for the Sox. The bullpen sucked, but the snowball started rolling downhill when starters couldn't get past the 4th or 5th inning on a daily basis.[/quote']0

 

Right but its not like those are games that HE would have won, rather than games that the team won. I think his performance would have been VERY similar to the rotation they put out there. Roll the dice any night and you could get a typical Arroyo performance: Wells pitches 6 innings gives up 4; Schilling pitches 7 leaves losing 2-3; Beckett walks 4, gives up 6 runs; 5 in the 1st inning; Gabbard pitches 6 innings, gives up 5 runs; Snyder pitches 5 innings, throws 370 pitches and gives up 4 runs. Any of those starts could be an AL Arroyo.

 

In other words, he wouldn't have ADDED 15 wins. He may have added 4, but I doubt it.

[a700hitter]

0

 

Right but its not like those are games that HE would have won, rather than games that the team won. I think his performance would have been VERY similar to the rotation they put out there. Roll the dice any night and you could get a typical Arroyo performance: Wells pitches 6 innings gives up 4; Schilling pitches 7 leaves losing 2-3; Beckett walks 4, gives up 6 runs; 5 in the 1st inning; Gabbard pitches 6 innings, gives up 5 runs; Snyder pitches 5 innings, throws 370 pitches and gives up 4 runs. Any of those starts could be an AL Arroyo.

 

In other words, he wouldn't have ADDED 15 wins. He may have added 4, but I doubt it.

He would have won between 10 and 15 games. That's his track record. How many wins he would have added to the team is questionable, because he would have been taking someone else's starts. It's more likely that he would have been taking Johnson's, Gabbards and DiNardo's starts. They didn't have too many wins between them, so IMO he would have added more than 4 wins.

[guapo34]

Arroyo looked alot worse last year than the year before. He definately would not have won 15 games in the AL this year. Every Red Sox pitcher looked great against the national league teams. There were like 4 teams in the AL that lost 3 games or less in interleague play, the NL is awful.

 

Arroyo may have taken Dinardo, Gabbard, and Johnson's starts, but Wily Mo's at bats would've gone to Willie Harris, Adam Stern, and Gabe Kapler. Wily Mo started in center when Coco got hurt and right when Nixon got hurt. He might have added 3 wins but losing Wily Mo would've cost wins too.

[a700hitter]

Arroyo looked alot worse last year than the year before. He definately would not have won 15 games in the AL this year.

His win total last year went up to 14 from 10 the year before.

 

BTW: While it is indisputable that there is a disparity in ERA between the AL and NL, it is almost entirely due to the DH. There's no trend that players going from one league to the other will have win totals go up or down. When Clement came to the AL he remained a 13 game winner like he was in the NL. John Lieber stayed pretty consistent going to and from the NL. If anything he slipped in the NL this year.Except years when he was injured, David Wells had fewer wins in SD than he did any year for Toronto, Boston or NY. Derek Lowe's win totals in the AL and NL have been consistent as have been Vincent Padilla's. There's just no evidence that Arroyo wouldn't have continued to be a 10 to 15 game winner in the AL. That being said. He is not an ace in the NL or the AL. He will always be a # 4 or 5 starter, but a very consistent and reliable #4 or 5.

[example1]

I don't like looking at wins as a measure of a pitcher's overall value. It relies too much on the team the player plays for. Arroyo has now played on two extremely good teams. Don't kid yourselves, the Reds are a decent team in the NL. I bet they're as good as Texas or Baltimore.

[schillingouttheks]

Which is it? Texas or Baltimore? One team is actually pretty decent, the other sucks balls...

[riverside sluggers]

agreed

finally

i believe all here can agree that wmp is the right fielder next year IF manny and coco come back

nothing is in cement here

i assume they've already started dealing manny as they have for the entire time this ownership group has owned the team and coco's miserable season has him on the block as well i would think

 

this team will be a lot different next season with most of the members of the 04 team jettisoned off

 

Im sorry that doesnt make any sense. Wily Mo is only the starting right fielder next season if both Manny & Coco stay?

 

Providence Journal

Wily Mo Pena will likely be the Red Sox' right fielder in 2007, the Providence Journal suggests.

With free-agent-to-be Trot Nixon likely to leave, Boston will look to Pena to fill the hole, barring a deal or free agent signing. He's definitely shown his power potential, and that's something the Red Sox will need as they seek pop from players other than David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez next season.

[Mr Crunchy]

wily looks like s*** in right field

he looks a lot more comfortable in center...no??

he certainly have a better look in left field IF manny gets dealt

if coco gets dealt he may play center a lot more

and i also think that of the 4 outfielders

pena manny nixon and coco

we may see as many as 3 of them somewhere else come next march

[riverside sluggers]

Pena wont be dealt this offseason

Just like I remember guaranteeing that he wouldnt be traded before this past trade deadline... I'll guarantee that he wont be traded before the 07 season starts

 

Well of course Nixon's going to be playing somewhere else, so thats a moot point

[Mr Crunchy]

you guarantee this based on what??

if florida offered dontrelle for pena and hansen youre telling me that theo would say no??

[jsinger121]

you guarantee this based on what??

if florida offered dontrelle for pena and hansen youre telling me that theo would say no??

 

And do you think that Florida would offer that deal. I don't. Pena is here to stay whether you like it or not.

[riverside sluggers]

you guarantee this based on what??

if florida offered dontrelle for pena and hansen youre telling me that theo would say no??

 

um yeah in my playstation mlb 06: the show game, I would do that.

 

Florida wouldnt be that dumb to trade Dontrelle for Hansen & Pena