Keith Foulke out as Closer?

[Cityofchampions33]

As much as I respect Foulke and love him when he's good, I think Pap should be our closer until Hansen is ready, which could be next year. Papy will be able to stay sharp and get some innings in him for next year. And even if Foulke does come back, he won't stay in Boston for long.

[ksushi]

If david wells sucks, we might need papelbon in the rotation sooner rather than later. I personally think if Papelbon were slotted into the five spot, we would have the best rotation in the AL. Better than the A's and the ChiSox. Obviously that is up for debate but I think that the ChiSox have 1 ace in Buehrle and a great supporting cast. I think Garland is a good number 3, and Vazquez a good number 4, with Contreras and Garcia could be solid #2 pitchers on any big league team. The one thing they don't have that the sox do: 2 aces. Beckett and Schilling represent 2 #1 starters. That is more deadly in a series. Papelbon I believe can hold his own as a #3 anywhere and with the two guys we have heading it off, Papelbon Clement and Wakefield are a solid as hell supporting cast. I hope Wells retires.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

If david wells sucks, we might need papelbon in the rotation sooner rather than later. I personally think if Papelbon were slotted into the five spot, we would have the best rotation in the AL. Better than the A's and the ChiSox. Obviously that is up for debate but I think that the ChiSox have 1 ace in Buehrle and a great supporting cast. I think Garland is a good number 3, and Vazquez a good number 4, with Contreras and Garcia could be solid #2 pitchers on any big league team. The one thing they don't have that the sox do: 2 aces. Beckett and Schilling represent 2 #1 starters. That is more deadly in a series. Papelbon I believe can hold his own as a #3 anywhere and with the two guys we have heading it off, Papelbon Clement and Wakefield are a solid as hell supporting cast. I hope Wells retires.

 

There is nothing wrong with David Wells. He will be just fine...I think he has proved he can pitch in the majors. At this moment the combination of Papelbon, Timlin, and hopefully a healthy and strong Keith Foulke is better than just about every teams top three relievers (Anaheim is good too).

[Sizzlin22]

The wya FOulke looked today I really think we need to get him back in the closer role. Let Papelbon set up and keep him ready to step in the rotation if anything happens there. We can't get Papelbon used to the closer role, that's Hansen's job in the future.

[Goalstopper]

when i saw paps in spring training for a starting pitcher, he didn't seem that good. i think it's safer if we have him close or relieve.

[jsinger121]

when i saw paps in spring training for a starting pitcher, he didn't seem that good. i think it's safer if we have him close or relieve.

 

He will relieve for now but he future is as a starter.

[Goalstopper]

i am not so sure that is a smart move. i forget who told me this but i heard o baseball tonight. but he was saying how it's tough to transition those two pitching types although it has worked for Gagne,Lowe and Smoltz. besides smoltz gagne and lowe were pretty bad pitchers when they were starters. paps is a good closer.

[jsinger121]

Smoltz a bad starter? Lowe as well? what are you smoking...Smoltz is only one of the best postseason starters of all time..those two are much better starters than they were relievers. Papelbon moves into the rotation full time next year when wells retires.

[ORS]

i am not so sure that is a smart move. i forget who told me this but i heard o baseball tonight. but he was saying how it's tough to transition those two pitching types although it has worked for Gagne,Lowe and Smoltz. besides smoltz gagne and lowe were pretty bad pitchers when they were starters. paps is a good closer.

Smoltz! and Lowe are bad SPs? You might want to rethink that one.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Whats the difference if Papelbon is a set-up man or a closer? Either way he is a relief pitcher so who cares what his so called "title" is. If your a closer or not I would hope they all continue to pitch the way they have thus far. All I hope is for the best pitchers to pitch in the crucial moments. For that reason Papelbon has looked the best out of our bullpen so I would hope he comes in at some point whenever we have a lead.

[a700hitter]

Foulke looked very good today. No one could make contact against him. He got on strikeout with the fastball and one with the changeup. He was hitting 88 and 89 on the stadium gun. He looked confident and very sharp. Papelbon's velocity was down about 4 or 5 clicks from the night before. On Saturday, he popped the glove several times at 97. On Sunday, he hit 94 once, but mainly was working at 92-93. On Saturday, he poured consistent strikes, but he had trouble with his coomand on Sunday.

[jsinger121]

Foulke looked very good today. No one could make contact against him. He got on strikeout with the fastball and one with the changeup. He was hitting 88 and 89 on the stadium gun. He looked confident and very sharp. Papelbon's velocity was down about 4 or 5 clicks from the night before. On Saturday, he popped the glove several times at 97. On Sunday, he hit 94 once, but mainly was working at 92-93. On Saturday, he poured consistent strikes, but he had trouble with his coomand on Sunday.

 

He did have some command issues but the home plate umpire didn't do him any favors by squeezing him on some pitches.

[mtbykr]

It looks like Paps will need a day off after a close to be back to 100%. Foulke looked good yesterday; he hit 89 with his FB on one pitch and then 72 on his changeup to strike the guy out----if he can keep that up he will be fine!

[MC Hammer]

It looks like Paps will need a day off after a close to be back to 100%.

I have no idea what leads you to believe that. His velocity was exactly the same as it was the day before. Just because he struggled with location a bit doesn't mean he needs a day off ... it just means he wasn't perfect. Bottom line is ... he got the job done ... and got it done without allowing a run. I don't know how many saves you've seen, but they're not always 1,2,3.

[jsinger121]

I have no idea what leads you to believe that. His velocity was exactly the same as it was the day before. Just because he struggled with location a bit doesn't mean he needs a day off ... it just means he wasn't perfect. Bottom line is ... he got the job done ... and got it done without allowing a run. I don't know how many saves you've seen, but they're not always 1,2,3.

 

Paps velocity was down in the 92-94 range. The night before he was in the 95-97 range. With the day off he should be able to go on opening day if need be.

[MC Hammer]

Paps velocity was down in the 92-94 range. The night before he was in the 95-97 range. With the day off he should be able to go on opening day if need be.

I was watching the game and saw 94-95. I'll watch it right now and check.

 

EDIT: OK 93-94. I still refuse to agree that based on 1 performance anyone can say that he needs a day off inbetween saves. Maybe he does, but I don't think you can say that based on one game ... especially considering he allowed no runs, and saved the game. Maybe if he came in and blew it I'd agree, or even let up a run or two ... but he didn't ... he got the save.

[jsinger121]

I was watching the game and saw 94-95. I'll watch it right now and check.

 

EDIT: OK 93-94. I still refuse to agree that based on 1 performance anyone can say that he needs a day off inbetween saves. Maybe he does, but I don't think you can say that based on one game ... especially considering he allowed no runs, and saved the game. Maybe if he came in and blew it I'd agree, or even let up a run or two ... but he didn't ... he got the save.

 

There is a day off now so it doesn't even matter.

[NoPepper]

Rumor has it that Foulke is going to the All Star Game ....

 

Papi needs someone to pitch to him in HR Derby.

[sarasoxfan]

I wish the rumor was he was going to another team..like say pawtucket.

[a700hitter]

Foulke will be fine. Getting him back healthy will be a big addition to the 2006 Bullpen. He is still a premier pitcher.

[TheRivernator]

Foulke will be fine. Getting him back healthy will be a big addition to the 2006 Bullpen. He is still a premier pitcher.

 

do you truly believe that? Foulke got hit well today, but it could have been harmless if Wily Mo didnt spit the bit. Either way, Foulke will be effective in middle relief, but I dont think he could hold down the 9th inning...

[sarasoxfan]

foulke is finished and his 88mph fast ball is at best batting practice material...on what basis would anyone say keith foulke is a premier pitcher. he lost us a bunch of games last year, has had one or two bad outings this year..lost his job as closer...to say he will be fine is a dream. In terms of yresterday, sure pena should have held on to that ball, but it still had home run distance.

 

 

Thank God francona realized that the guy is a stiff early on before putting him in a position to f*** us like he did last eyar.

[a700hitter]

His problem last year was his legs not his arm. He couldn't get any drive toward the plate and he couldn't locate. That usually equates to bad results. His legs are healthy as is his arm, so there is no reason to believe that a guy with his successful track record will not rebound.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

His location wasn't that bad yesturday. The problem I see now is getting movement on his fastball. He never had a high velocity fastball but at least it had movement. The one Catalanotto hit was straight on a line middle-in. If that ball was able to cut inside of the plate he wouldn't have made good contact. For the most part a 89mph compared to a 92pmh isn't much of a difference...its all about movement on the pitch.

 

Papelbon has a ton of movement on his fastball which is why its so effective. The changeup looks real good for Foulke he just needs his fastball to bite more. That will probably come around and his deceptive delivery makes it a more difficult pitch to hit. The fact is its not that pretty but its still APRIL!!!

[NoPepper]

His problem last year was his legs not his arm. He couldn't get any drive toward the plate and he couldn't locate. That usually equates to bad results. His legs are healthy as is his arm, so there is no reason to believe that a guy with his successful track record will not rebound.

 

Until then, to answer the question which is the subject of this thread.....

 

Foulke should be out as closer. If/when he rebounds, this board will gladly reconsider

 

What to do with him until then? Perhaps the subject of a different thread.

 

I already voted to change his place of employment to McCoy Stadium, but if he stays with the Sox to get work, it will be tough for me to remain sober if Foulke enters any game with less that a 4 run lead at present. (Ok, its tough for me regardless, but you get the idea.)

 

Once Foulke rebounds enough to get out of those innings with a 4 run lead, then we can try tighter situations.

[sarasoxfan]

yeah its april but he hasnt looked like a "premier" pitcher since sometime in 2004, how many april's until we let this chump loose.

[a700hitter]

Until then, to answer the question which is the subject of this thread.....

 

Foulke should be out as closer. If/when he rebounds, this board will gladly reconsider

 

What to do with him until then? Perhaps the subject of a different thread.

 

I already voted to change his place of employment to McCoy Stadium, but if he stays with the Sox to get work, it will be tough for me to remain sober if Foulke enters any game with less that a 4 run lead at present. (Ok, its tough for me regardless, but you get the idea.)

 

Once Foulke rebounds enough to get out of those innings with a 4 run lead, then we can try tighter situations.

I don't disagree that he has to return to prominence before he goes back to closing. I just disagree with others on this board who think he is finished.

[sarasoxfan]

with those injuries and time, I dont know what makes you think that he can get back to form after so much time and injuries to both legs. A hunch? What have you seen that we are misising.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

with those injuries and time, I dont know what makes you think that he can get back to form after so much time and injuries to both legs. A hunch? What have you seen that we are misising.

 

His changeup is back to where it was. Thats the most important pitch Keith Foulke throws. Now he needs to setup for that pitch which unfortunatly is only his fastball. The location is better than it was his first outing of the season. The velocity has gone up from 85 mph. What he needs now is a late break on his fastball and once again it will be real tough to hit. When they can't get good wood on that fastball it sets up his change.

 

Its possible the knees come back to ruin any chance he has or his head never gets clear...I'm just saying thats what he needs to become effective again. He has made progress from last year so I can't say all hope is lost.

 

One thing though is that we could be looking at a premier closer in the league with Jonathan Papelbon. Its an extremely important role and some people might want to get used to that. Look what having Rivera does for the Yankees. Not only that but in a tight game of extra innings we could send him in for 2-3 innings. He has a fanastic fastball and that splitter is starting to become impossible to hit. He is a major weapon coming out of the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

with those injuries and time, I dont know what makes you think that he can get back to form after so much time and injuries to both legs. A hunch? What have you seen that we are misising.

It's not a hunch. He has had the knees fixed. Reports are that the knees are in much better shape than last year, so why shouldn't that allow him to improve his performance. I hope he can do it, because they are a better team with a top-form Keith Foulke.