Steinbrenner all but guarantee's a WS win

[26 to 6]

I'll say it again. Pitching wins championships, and the Yankees have none.

Just as much as you, my friend.

[MC Hammer]

Our pitching is just as good as yours. And i'm sure you guys believe you have a shot at the WS.

Maybe, that is if you really think Aaron Small, and Shawn Chacon are going to do what they did last year, and still then you have grandpa as your ace ... and who knows when he'll go down ... Wang already had 1 arm injury ... Pavano and Wright ... HAHAHA!

[26 to 6]

Randy vs Schilling - Equal. (And thats being generous, my personal feeling is that Randy is better just based on the fact he had some success last year. And no, Schilling's ONE great game doesnt count)

Mussina vs Beckett - Red Sox (when healthy and at his best, Mussina is just as good as Beckett. Both are different types of pitchers, but the fact that both are prone to DL time. However, with Beckett's youth, I give him the edge.)

Wang vs Papelbon - Equal (Based on the fact that Wang had a real good year last year. As did Papelbon, but his was out of the bullpen)

Chacon vs Wakefield - Equal (Yes, Chacon was so good last year that I dared to say that he was equal to the immortal Tim Wakefield)

Pavano vs Clement - Red Sox (WITH A VERY SLIGHT EDGE. Both had injuries last year, but Clement had a successful first half. Bot when healthy, both are as good as the other)

 

So the Red Sox get two edges, but the Yankees make up for that in the bullpen.

And the two Sox edges were pretty slight edges. I should have given Randy the egde over Schilling, I just didnt want to hear you guys bitch about it.

 

NOTE: These are just what I predict the starting rotations to be. Obviously could be wrong

[WildThing58]

Your forgetting Wells and possibly arroyo. Also i don't think papelbon is #3.

 

Wells > Wang

 

Wake > Chacon

[26 to 6]

Your forgetting Wells and possibly arroyo. Also i don't think papelbon is #3.

 

Wells > Wang

 

Wake > Chacon

Those were just my predictions as to who would be in the rotation, and not in any specific order. I think Wells will get his trade and Arroyo will be in the pen.

 

And I must respectfully disagree, Wake = Chacon. Wake is older and does get knocked around from time to time. As does Chacon. But I gave Beckett the edge because of his age vs Mussina, so the same applies here.

[MC Hammer]

Randy vs Schilling - Equal. (And thats being generous, my personal feeling is that Randy is better just based on the fact he had some success last year. And no, Schilling's ONE great game doesnt count)

Mussina vs Beckett - Red Sox (when healthy and at his best, Mussina is just as good as Beckett. Both are different types of pitchers, but the fact that both are prone to DL time. However, with Beckett's youth, I give him the edge.)

Wang vs Papelbon - Equal (Based on the fact that Wang had a real good year last year. As did Papelbon, but his was out of the bullpen)

Wang is coming off an arm injury ... Paps is not.

Edge: Red Sox

Chacon vs Wakefield - Equal (Yes, Chacon was so good last year that I dared to say that he was equal to the immortal Tim Wakefield)

Your going to tell me that in half a season Chacon has shown you more than Wakefield has in his entire career. Yeah OK. I think I'll take the guy who has proven he can get it done for more than 80 some games.

Pavano vs Clement - Red Sox (WITH A VERY SLIGHT EDGE. Both had injuries last year, but Clement had a successful first half. Bot when healthy, both are as good as the other)

Pavano isn't going to be healthy for the start of the season. Even when he's healthy he'll just get hurt again. Plus, doesn't anyone remember he said he doesn't want to be a Yankee anymore?

Edge: Red Sox

 

4-0-1 Red Sox

[WildThing58]

Yeah, Chacon hasn't won more than 12 games in a year through his career.

[26 to 6]

Wang is coming off an arm injury ... Paps is not.

Edge: Red Sox

Wang pitched well before AND AFTER he came back from the injury. Paps has started 2 games in his life. As far as i'm concerned, Wang is much more proven.

 

Your going to tell me that in half a season Chacon has shown you more than Wakefield has in his entire career. Yeah OK. I think I'll take the guy who has proven he can get it done for more than 80 some games.

We're not going by careers here. If we were, then Randy would edge Schilling, Moose would edge Beckett, Wang would edge Paps, Pavano and Clement will be equal, and Wake would edge Chacon making it 3-1--1 in favor of the Yankees. Dont be an idiot.

 

Pavano isn't going to be healthy for the start of the season. Even when he's healthy he'll just get hurt again. Plus, doesn't anyone remember he said he doesn't want to be a Yankee anymore?

Edge: Red Sox

Nobody has said for sure that Pavano wont be healthy when the season starts. As of now, he wont be able to throw off of a mound until next week. Didnt know the season started next week. Nobody can prove Pavano said that, that was a newspaper report, and if Pavano had made a quote like that i'm sure he would stand by it. He has not, he has denied saying it. I believe him, as I find it hard to believe he wouldnt want to be a part of the team he grew up rooting for. And Clement can get hurt just as easily as Pavano. Again, like I said before, these guys are equal.

[kyahbean]

OH man, I had to hear him say that ALL day on XM today. I was ready to smash the damn unit if I had to hear Steinbrenner mouth off one more time.

[riverside sluggers]

Wang pitched well before AND AFTER he came back from the injury. Paps has started 2 games in his life. As far as i'm concerned, Wang is much more proven.

 

Actually, first it was 3 games that he started. Yeah I guess taking over as the set up man in a tight knit pennant race (ranked the best in September) then 4 scoreless innings in the playoffs is not proven. He's going to be a cornerstone of the Red Sox rotation.

 

Like MCHammer has pointed out, Wang had spent 2 months on the DL due to shoulder inflammation. A pitcher this young having that type of wearing out shouldnt be taken lightly. Hence why the Yankees FO are glad he wont be taking part in the WBC. The health factor does edge in Paps' favor. Wang will win 15 +/- games but that will be helped greatly by the lineup like the 2005 Sox pitching staff had

 

And no, Schilling's ONE great game doesnt count)

 

Schilling had 3 good starts at the end of the season, not just the one where he had quieted the bronx on that Saturday afternoon.

[26 to 6]

Actually, first it was 3 games that he started. Yeah I guess taking over as the set up man in a tight knit pennant race (ranked the best in September) then 4 scoreless innings in the playoffs is not proven. He's going to be a cornerstone of the Red Sox rotation.

 

Like MCHammer has pointed out, Wang had spent 2 months on the DL due to shoulder inflammation. A pitcher this young having that type of wearing out shouldnt be taken lightly. Hence why the Yankees FO are glad he wont be taking part in the WBC. The health factor does edge in Paps' favor. Wang will win 15 +/- games but that will be helped greatly by the lineup like the 2005 Sox pitching staff had

 

 

 

Schilling had 3 good starts at the end of the season, not just the one where he had quieted the bronx on that Saturday afternoon.

I dont understand why you guys dont understand it. Being a good reliever doesnt mean you'll be a good starter. Mariano Rivera is the best reliever in the history of the game, but it would be ridiculous to say he's a good starter.

[ORS]

There is a thing in statistics call an outlier. This is something that doesn't agree with the normal range of statistics, and when using statistics to predict future performance, outliers are commonly thrown out since they aren't representative of what is likely to happen. Shawn Chacon's half-season with the Yankees falls into this category. Normal fluctuation in pitcher's BABIP is around +/- .020 from season to season. Chacon's career average BABIP away from Coors' Field is .280 (I looked at his numbers on the road because the drier/thinner air can affect his curve, his best pitch). BABIP is the batting average on balls in play against Chacon, Team is the team average without Chacon pitching, DifC is the difference from his career average, DifT is the difference from the team average without him.

 

Split      BABIP      Team      DifC     DifT
COL-Road   .280      .300      .000     -.020
w/ NY      .239      .302     -.041     -.063    

 

Chacon has demonstrated a consistent ability to limit batters to less hits on balls in play than the team he plays for, but his 2005 numbers from NY are completely ridiculous. When his DifT comes back to reasonable numbers, even despite his ability to outperform the rest of the team, his ERA is very close to the team ERA without him.

 

Split     ERA     Team     DifT
COL-Road  4.84     4.91    -.07
w/ NY     2.85     4.62   -1.77

 

Now, this is baseball, not pure statisitics so throwing out his performance after coming to NY wouldn't necessarily be the right thing to do, but it certainly isn't wise to base expectations on it. My prediction, Chacon falls back to earth this year, hard.

[MC Hammer]

26 to 6 ... I'm not gonna argue about your pitching staff anymore, but dont you go running away when you're pitching staff is the reason the Yankees DONT win the WS.

[26 to 6]

ok man, if it makes you that much happier i'll give Wakefield the EDGE over Chacon. I'll give Schilling the edge over Randy, Paps over Wang, Clement over Pavano, Foulke over Rivera, etc.

 

God forbid you guys accept that maybe your guys arent the best. My post was just a prediction. We dont know if Chacon is going to be better or if Wake is going to be better. Based on last year, and the ages of the two I think it was fair to list them as equal for now. I'm sorry.

[26 to 6]

My prediction, Chacon falls back to earth this year, hard.

Thats fair. But what earth does he fall back to? The Elevated earth of Denver, where he was Bad/Decent or the sea level New York city where he excelled?

[MC Hammer]

God forbid you guys accept that maybe your guys arent the best.

:lol: WOW! Did a Yankee fan just say that? Did 26 to 6 ... the guy that sucks every Yankee prospects dick ... say that?

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

The way they act lately, seems like they have reconciled all of their differences and all is good between them. I'm not worried about it. That was just Steinbrenner displaying his attitude. Confidence, and certainty. I respect him for it, and I sure as hell hope he's right.

Yankees in 2006

How long do you really think that will last? The first time Torre leaves Mike Meyes in to face a righty and that righty homers off of him you know George will knock him in the paper. Its George being George(I cant believe I just said that). He cant help himself. While I think the front office wont be as unstable it has been in the past I certainly dont think it will run soomthly all the time. Not with Steinbrenner and the Tampa losers.

[riverside sluggers]

I dont understand why you guys dont understand it. Being a good reliever doesnt mean you'll be a good starter. Mariano Rivera is the best reliever in the history of the game, but it would be ridiculous to say he's a good starter.

 

Sure, count out Papelbon. That will take you far. Name one factor that makes you believe he'll be not that good of a starter.

 

And where did I say, good relief pitchers can be great at starting games? I was trying to make a point of how you said Papelbon isnt proven. The kid is cool under pressure, and if in the opening day staff I can see a 3.75-4.10 ERA with 13-16 wins

[ORS]

Thats fair. But what earth does he fall back to? The Elevated earth of Denver, where he was Bad/Decent or the sea level New York city where he excelled?

Math challenged? My post makes it fairly evident that when Chacon's BABIP numbers are normal his ERA will be right around the team's ERA. I'll be very surprised if his ERA is under 4.00 this year. That's not bad, but it's nothing close to what he did last year. That said, with the run support he'll likely get, it wouldn't shock me to see him win 15 games either.

[26 to 6]

Sure, count out Papelbon. That will take you far. Name one factor that makes you believe he'll be not that good of a starter.

 

And where did I say, good relief pitchers can be great at starting games? I was trying to make a point of how you said Papelbon isnt proven. The kid is cool under pressure, and if in the opening day staff I can see a 3.75-4.10 ERA with 13-16 wins

I'm not counting out Papelbon. My personal opinion of him is that he will be a great starter throughout his career. But we dont know that for sure. And I didnt say he wasnt proven in pressure spots, I said he wasnt proven as a starter (Well I actually I think I said he wasnt proven, but was reffering to the starters role). To be fair I had to take his inexperience into consideration.

 

I think my comparisons are more than fair.

[26 to 6]

:lol: WOW! Did a Yankee fan just say that? Did 26 to 6 ... the guy that sucks every Yankee prospects dick ... say that?

I've never had a problem admitting when a Red Sock, or anyone else for that matter was better than a Yankee. And where is the relevance of your statement that i "blow every yankee prospect"? I dont quite see how that fits in.

 

Math challenged? My post makes it fairly evident that when Chacon's BABIP numbers are normal his ERA will be right around the team's ERA. I'll be very surprised if his ERA is under 4.00 this year. That's not bad, but it's nothing close to what he did last year. That said, with the run support he'll likely get, it wouldn't shock me to see him win 15 games either.

I didnt even notice your post.

[Cityofchampions33]

From a risk-perception, i would much rather have the Sox pitching staff then that of the Yankees. Yeah, the Yanks have Rivera, but that's about it in terms of locks. Randy is asking for an injury, Moose can be knocked around, Chacon and Small aren't exactly proven, and Wang is already showing wear-and-tear at his age.

However the Sox also have question marks. Schilling is by far the biggest, but last year was injured so what he did last year cannot really be taken seriosuly until those last three games, in which he even said on ESPNs Page 2 he wasn't injured. Beckett is next, but there's far less risk here then gossiped. Yes, he has the blister problem, but so did a man by the name of Nolan Ryan. Papelbon, who in his first career start held the Angels to 2 runs should do fine, and will be interesting to watch as the season progresses. Of course with his age comes all of the ?s as "can he take the workload" or "can he keep it up the whole season" which he probably can.

 

Schilling v. Johnson

Edge: NYY

I say this only because Schill is a question mark in terms of how he will perform, Johnson is whether he will get injured or not.

 

Beckett v. Mussina

Edge: BOS

Beckett is up and coming, Moose is going down and out, though he can obviously put up solid numbers. Mussina can be great, but can also be knocked around. I'd call it even because of Beckett coming to a new elague, etc. but I think his talnt can overcome that.

 

Wakefield v. Wang

Edge: BOS

Wakefiled was our anchor in the 2nd half of last year, hardly getting lit up, and coming up with the stop every time asked. Wang like Papelbon still comes with the ?s and the injury factor. Age isn't a factor for Wake as he hurls a knuckle.

 

Papelbon v. Chacon

Edge: Even

Up in the air, though I believe Papelbon has a far better chance to succeed over Chacon. Chacon might have always been the Chacon of last year but was dragged down by COLs thin air. However that is unlikely but only time can tell. Papelbon as stated has all the questions coming with a full workload.

 

Clement/Arroyo v. Small

Edge: BOS

Small, unlike Chacon was not in COL, which is Chacon's only excuse. Therefor there is more probability that last year was a fluke. Also Clement, if he can put a full season together can be great, same goes with Arroyo who was our ace the 1st half of the season along with Clement.

[ORS]

I didnt even notice your post.

How do you not notice a post that you quoted?

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Clement/Arroyo v. Small

Edge: BOS

Small, unlike Chacon was not in COL, which is Chacon's only excuse. Therefor there is more probability that last year was a fluke. Also Clement, if he can put a full season together can be great, same goes with Arroyo who was our ace the 1st half of the season along with Clement.

Small wont start over Pavano. Torre has already said they need to get something from Pavano this year and he will be in the roto.

[26 to 6]

How do you not notice a post that you quoted?

I only saw the bottom of your post, and I didnt even realize it was a post by you (lol), until I went back to look at the post with the stats you were talking about.

[26 to 6]

Small wont start over Pavano. Torre has already said they need to get something from Pavano this year and he will be in the roto.

I agree, other than that it was a good comparrison.

[ARod2212]

This board ... especially in the offseason ... is nothing but predictions. My prediction is that the Yankee rotation will suck just like it did last year, and maybe worse depending on Randy.

As long as it's clear that its a prediction and not an undeniable fact, then its fine.

 

The way it came off sounded more than a prediction, that's all.

[Cityofchampions33]

Small wont start over Pavano. Torre has already said they need to get something from Pavano this year and he will be in the roto.

 

Pavano's gunna miss the begining of the year, I was going by Opeining Day

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Pavano's gunna miss the begining of the year, I was going by Opeining Day

2 things....

 

1. Its not garenteed hes going to miss opening day.

 

2. You dont really need a 5th starter for about 2 weeks because of all of the off days so really Pavano wont miss anytime because they wont need him if he in fact will miss opening day.

[a700hitter]

Hopefully, his guarantees are as good as Patrick Ewing's were.