Sox Land Gonzalez

[jsinger121]

papelbon has already started 2 games in the majors. wakefield on the other hand is a knuckleballer and they last forever. age is not a factor with them (go see the niekro's and charlie hough....they pitched forever)

[26 to 6]

Except that you have PAVANO as your 5th starter, with two very questionable (EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE) pitchers at 3-4. And two old guys at the top. This is a very optimistic rotation, IMHO, it should be:

Randy

Mussina

Pavano

Wang

Chacon

 

At least put the proven guys at the top. By comparison (and I think its a fair one), I always want to write:

 

Schilling

Beckett

Papelbon

Wakefield

Clement

 

but then I realize that the sox just won't have Papelbon as their 3rd starter to start the season. He's essentially a rookie. I think the same is true with Wang. He could be good, but I wouldn't want to have to depend on him to be a 3 when I'm paying Pavano, let me check... $9 million to pitch. At 9 million he had better be at least a 3 caliber pitcher. I think Clement is a 3 caliber pitcher; Lowe was a 3 caliber pitcher. Pavano--if healthy and effective--is a good 3 caliber pitcher. Wang, as he was last year, was not a good 3 caliber pitcher. His 47 SO in 116.1 IP is less than overpowering. He's not BAD, he's just a questionable 3.

Im pretty sure Pavanos gonna go number 5..at least thats what I would do..based on last year.

 

 

WHY IS EVERYONE CALLING WANG THIS HUGE QUESTION MARK? I THOUGHT HE WAS PRETTY DAMN IMPRESSIVE LAST YEAR!!

[jsinger121]

im sorry but that was 1 yr.....he has no track record.....teams now will have a chance to gain a scouting report and see him more than just once.

[26 to 6]

im sorry but that was 1 yr.....he has no track record.....teams now will have a chance to gain a scouting report and see him more than just once.

He has no track record but Papelbon does?

 

I will be willing to accept the questioning of Wang, but only if you guys would stop acting as if PApelbon is the second coming.

[jimmycarter05]

I think the only reason Wang is a ? is because of that shoulder immflammation injury, that's pretty serious.

[example1]

Right, because Schilling was a sure thing last year, Beckett coming to the AL is a guaranteed thimbs up (hey, if I recall, you guys always insult the Yanks for bringing in NL pitchers...can you say HYPOCRITE!), Wells is obviously generations younger than Johnson, and a baby compared to Mussina (actually...Moosey there is a wee bit younger than Boomer), and of coarse Wakefield is a dynamite.

 

Lets be serious here, Johnson vs Schilling: Based on careers and last year Johnson is a DEFINATE better choice. However, based on ability and track record lately, it isnt too far away. I still take Johnson, especially with how he finished last year off.

Chacon vs Beckett: I give the edge to Beckett, definately. based on his age and velocity...as well as his potential its a no brainer.

Pavano vs Clement: Clement gets a slight edge, only because of his first half and he was on the field more. But he was injured and inconsistant too. Its an edge, but a very slight one. I have a good feeling about Pavano this year.

Moose vs Wakefield: No edge here. Wakefield is older, and is more likely to break down. And we cant forget the knuckleball, but Moose is younger (not much, bet hes got a few good years), an EXCELLENT fielder..perhaps the best fielding pitcher in the game today, has an amazing knuckle-curve. you can make cases for both.

Wang vs Papelbon: Though most of you will disagree, and I understand why, I am not going to give anyone an edge here. Yes, Papelbon has amazing stuff and projects to be a Clemens-type, but we still dont know if hes for real as a starter yet. You guys assume when talking about your prospects, that they are sure things. Thats not the case here. Wang pitched very good last year, granted he went down with injury, but i'll take his sinker and his youth any day of the week. Papelbon has better stuff and is younger (i think), bt he needs to start a game or 2 before I give him an edge. However, I think we all know deep down he is better than Wang.

 

Those comparrisons are not based on rotation slot, rather they are basedo n who I feel they match up with best on the other teams staff.

 

So if you ask me guys, this isnt as much a one-sided arguement as you guys make it out to be..sorry.

 

FWIW, Papelbon started 3 games last year:

 

July 31st:

MIN 5.1 IP, 4H, 3R, 2ER, 2HR, 5BB, 7 SO, 100 PIT, 3.38 ERA

 

Aug 16

@DET 5.0 IP, 6H, 2R, 2ER, 0HR, 2 BB, 6 SO, 84PIT, 3.43 ERA

 

Aug 21

@LAA 5.2 IP, 5 H, 0R, 0ER, 0HR, 3BB, 2 SO, 100 PIT 2.25 ERA.

 

Of course he's not a sure thing. He's a 25 year old kid with half a season under his belt. Watch him though. Watch how he throws on the mound, how he walks around it. Watch how he carries himself. He isn't getting comparisons to Roger Clemens for nothing; the guy is intense and has a VERY explosive fastball that guys can't catch up to even when they know its coming.

 

EDIT:

Also, if you had your way you might set the teams up to battle like that. However, I would put Beckett up against Johnson, Schilling up against Mussina, Wakefield up against Chacon, Papelbon against Wang and Clement up against Pavano. I am confident that the sox could take 3 out of 5 of those games (pitching wise, that is). Just had to add that.

[jsinger121]

forgot he started that game against the tigers. papelbon's upside alot better than wang's who i wouldn't be shocked if he was out of the league in 3 years because frankly his stuff is not very impressive. i believe teams will adjust to him. both papelbon and wang are ? marks but if im going to take a pitcher i am going to take a pitcher who has betters tools and frankly better talent and that is papelbon.

[guapo34]

He has no track record but Papelbon does?

 

I will be willing to accept the questioning of Wang, but only if you guys would stop acting as if PApelbon is the second coming.

 

Wang had a 3.64 k/9. Thats terrible. Most pitchers that put up numbers like he did with strike out rates that bad generally fall back to earth the next year. Pappelbon's was 9 k/9. While this was only in 17 innings, he could've gone 17 more innings without a K and still had Wang beat, by almost a whole K.

[Beckett95]

Randy : Obviously RJ had a better season than Schilling last year because of Curts ankle injury. Id expect the same type of year with RJ, and atleast 1 trip to the DL. Hes 41 and has had back problems in the past.

 

Schilling : Curt says he's ankles almost 100% and hes alot more healthier than he was last year. An ankle injury doesnt mean that the person's talent is declining. I assume by the start of the year that his ankle is fine and he'll be able to make 25-30 starts this year. He want have as good as stuff as he did in 04, but he'll put up an era of around 3.70

 

Carl Pavano : Pavano i think will have a better year this year, but might struggle in the AL and in NY. Pavano has only had one good year in his career. He'll be somewhere in between what he did last year and what he did in 2004. He also will be on the DL at some point with his shoulder problems.

 

Beckett : Beckett has a lot of good upside and has some of the best talent in the league. He also has a chance at going on the DL .Overall he is a clutch performer, who will thrive in Boston.

 

Mussina : Might not be the dominating pitcher he was a couple years ago, but still always pitches well against the Sox. He is aging and might see a slight decline in stats from last year.

 

Wakefield : Has been consistent over the last couple of years and hasnt been slowed down by age at all. Id expect the same type of year out of him that he had last year.

 

Chacon : Dont really know how he'll do in a full year on the Yankees in the AL, but he will most likely not have the sucess he had last year. Before getting traded to the Yankess, he had a career era of over 5. He did pitch for the Rockies, but he still didnt have a great away record. He doesnt strike out many people either. Id expect an era of around 4for him.

 

Clement : Im not sure if Clement will ever be the same pitcher he was before the game he was hit in the head. He seems like the kind of guy who lets moments like that stay with him. Id rather have Arroyo in the rotation and Clement gone, but doesnt look like it will happen. I also dont like how he has always sucked in the second half. He could have a decline in his stats from last year.

 

Although I think that Papelbon will be much better than Wang this year, we really dont know since neither have pitched enough in the MLB. Papelbon was more impressive last than Wang in their brief major league appearences.

[riverside sluggers]

I got into a huge argument over this. I'm glad I found someone else that sees what I see.

 

well of course "26 to 6" agrees with you, not much of a surprise right there

[riverside sluggers]

I'm glad we got a solid glove. I hope we still get to see some of Dustin Pedroia, although it's doubtful. He'll probably play 2nd and Pawtucket this year. Hopefully, Alex Gonzalez can learn to up his average, and rediscover his powerstroke. The beauty of the deal is, we still get stellar dfense for 3 mil, and we are only stuck with his bat for one year if he doesnt improve. Fenway should cater to him, as a righty...

 

Dont you worry, I can see a call-up for Dusty. Most likely Im thinking before the September call-ups. I cant wait for that

[jsinger121]

At a $3 million pricetag, Alex Gonzalez’ pending deal is considered by most to be a pretty good one for the Red Sox. It’s even better considering the bulk of the money is not guaranteed.

 

As part of the team’s policy for all free agents, Gonzalez will take a physical here today, the final obstacle remaining before signing his one-year deal with the organization.

 

The team reduced its risk and maximized its flexibility by retaining the ability to cut Gonzalez before Opening Day and not be on the hook for his entire salary. If they cut him before March 15, they are responsible for one-sixth, or $500,000, and if they cut him between March 16 and Opening Day, they are responsible for roughly one-quarter, or $750,000. If he is on the Opening Day roster, his $3 million becomes guaranteed.

 

By structuring the Gonzalez deal this way, the Red Sox buy themselves some time in case he passes the physical but has not made enough progress in spring training from his Sept. 30, 2005, arthroscopic surgery to remove two bone chips from his right throwing elbow. Gonzalez had a similar procedure performed at the end of the 2004 season.

 

The deal also allows the competition to be more intense. No one is expecting shortstop prospect Dustin Pedroia to jump to the top of the depth chart this spring but Alex Cora may have something to prove.

 

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=123953

[Beckett95]

Deal is now official according to rotoworld

 

Red Sox signed shortstop Alex Gonzalez, who had been with the Marlins, to a one-year, $3 million contract.

It's not a guaranteed deal, so in the unlikely event that the Rays decide to dramatically lower their asking price for Julio Lugo, the Red Sox could cut Gonzalez and only owe him $500,000. Right now, Boston is looking at a probable lineup of: CF Coco Crisp, 2B Mark Loretta, DH David Ortiz, LF Manny Ramirez, C Jason Varitek, RF Trot Nixon/Dustan Mohr, 3B Mike Lowell, 1B Kevin Youkilis/J.T. Snow and SS Gonzalez. Varitek and Nixon could be flip-flopped, but the rest of the lineup figures to be rather stable. Feb. 3 - 5:47 pm et

[riverside sluggers]

It is still possibile for Pedroia to win it. Sucks that NESN carries just 8 spring training games, but I'll still take them gladly.

[Hammer]

I just heard a rediculous rumor that would flip gonzales to somebody and eventually land baltimores prize ss in boston.............to unbelieveable....can you imagine miggy in boston and manny still in left field...............................WS is looking good....

[Beckett95]

this one..?

 

Dodgers send: Derek Lowe, Hee Seop Choi

Red Sox send: David Wells, Alex Gonzalez, Kevin Youkilis, Jon Lester, Tony Graffanino

Orioles send: Miguel Tejada, Luis Matos

 

Dodgers receive: Wells, Graffanino, Matos

Red Sox receive: Tejada, Choi

Orioles receive: Lowe, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Lester

[riverside sluggers]

Myself, Im a firm believer in keeping Lester. Whether or not the trade involves a player like Tejada.

[ksushi]

erm, considering that trading lester would probably be one of the worst moves the sox could make I highly doubt that will happen.

 

Yeah and last time i checked, you can't trade newly signed FA's until june so this trade is complete fiction.

 

Miguel Tejada and Chio is simply not enough for jon lester.

[ksushi]

double posting like a jerk here, but what is the source of this bull anyway? I havent found it anywhere.

[Ray10]

Good thing that they signed him to a one year deal instead of multiyear deal at more money. He apparently gets a bonus if he isn't released before Spring Training. So it looks like he's here on a tryout bases or something.

[The Monster is my Mom]

double posting like a jerk here, but what is the source of this bull anyway? I havent found it anywhere.

 

I don't think there is any validity to this.

[CalvnHobs6]

It's on mlbtraderumors.com ... obviously the best source of information on the net. Nottttt so much.

[Redguitar985]

this one..?

 

So basically, you replace Youk with Hee Seop Choi? Looking at Choi's offensive numbers, I'd rather take my chances with Youk.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, that was a crap trade once I saw Lester in it. The guy has just too many positives

 

-Power pitcher

-Lefty

-Good comparisons to MLB pitchers

-Potential to be an ace

-Great repetoire (bad spelling) of pitches

-Ability to sneak by the high-heat

 

Sandwich that in between Beckett and Papelbon in a 3 game series you are dealy.

[Beckett95]

the trade is crap and will never happen like most things on mlbtraderumors. It was also supposedly rumored on WEEI this morning.

[The Monster is my Mom]

It would be dumb to give up a prime pitching prospect (especially a lefty), unless it was something too good to pass up.

[ksushi]

like an ace pitcher in his prime.

[stocker323]

Sox may release Petagine to make room for Gonzalez.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/02/04/sox_make_gonz225lez_deal_official/

[Plumpamania]

mlbtraderumors.com is just there for a good laugh. I doubt the Sox are willing to take on Tejada's contract w/o removing Ramirez'. Pedrioa will be the starting SS opening day.

[The Monster is my Mom]

mlbtraderumors.com is just there for a good laugh. I doubt the Sox are willing to take on Tejada's contract w/o removing Ramirez'. Pedrioa will be the starting SS opening day.

 

You think Pedrioa will be SS this year? Maybe next year, but I don't see it happening this year.