RUMOR: Manny & CLement for Tejada deal done ...

[example1]

Members on SoSH were indicating that the sources were being percieved by other members as pretty reliable, usually a little ahead of the game. I tend to think that it might take a little while for a deal like this to be made public. Manny, Clement and 10 million would probably get the deal done.

[ksushi]

eh, I wouldn't take whats on sosh as gospel.

[example1]

eh, I wouldn't take whats on sosh as gospel.

 

Honestly, ksushi, would you take anything not from the mouth of Lucchino or the GMs as gospel given everything you've heard?

 

Unless you have some prior knowledge about the sources who were speaking on the O's board I will go with the opinions of people who seem to know what those sources were talking about... however vague it may be.

[riverside sluggers]

Myself I dont believe anything right away thats breaking news released first on a message board and not on an actual sports news website

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

well i think this much is clear...we can expect deals to be made in the next 3 months or so from the Red Sox

[a700hitter]

well i think this much is clear...we can expect deals to be made in the next 3 months or so from the Red Sox

By the time they get around to it, their options will be overpaying for the likes of Dave Roberts. Maybe Darren Lewis is available.

[riverside sluggers]

By the time they get around to it, their options will be overpaying for the likes of Dave Roberts. Maybe Darren Lewis is available.

 

I dont see how they would be "overpaying" for Dave Roberts if he's acquired in a trade for Wells.

[a700hitter]

I dont see how they would be "overpaying" for Dave Roberts if he's acquired in a trade for Wells.

If the Sox wait until Wilson is gone, San Diego might attempt to drive up the price for Roberts if they think Boston is desperate. SImilarly, the price for Wilson has probably gone up now that other teams are invloved. It is the economic principle of Supply and Demand. If there is a limited supply of available CF's, the price will go up.

[riverside sluggers]

I highly doubt that we would be seeing a combo of Wells with Marte, Lester or papelbon or Dave Roberts. The Sox FO is not that stupid that I know of

[a700hitter]

I highly doubt that we would be seeing a combo of Wells with Marte, Lester or papelbon or Dave Roberts. The Sox FO is not that stupid that I know of

I agree that the Sox FO would not pay such a steep price for Roberts. If you remember the price for pitching got a little too high at the trading deadline this past season, so the FO ended up doing nothing. The same result is not an impossibility with regard to the CF hole. I wouldn't be so sure that they will fill the CF spot with a productive player, especially if they keep procrastinating. It's obvious that they need one or to more OFers to start the season, but it doesn't seem that they will come cheap.

[a700hitter]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=119682

Tony Maz says an Oriole prospect might be coming back with Miggy. Does anyone know anything about the prospect?

[riverside sluggers]

damn I can see why the Sox are asking for him, this kid is a top notch potential power hitting outfielder

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/547591

[Manny Goes Boom]

Myself I dont believe anything right away thats breaking news released first on a message board and not on an actual sports news website

 

I know its not a website but we're WAY ahead of Sportscenter when it regards the Sox, but I agree with you on this.

[riverside sluggers]

um is it just me who smells something brewing? Jeromy Burnitz known for the past week of signing a 2 year contract with Baltimore, has actually instead been swooped up by the Pirates for a 2 year deal. Burnitz was going to be the Orioles' opening day left fielder

 

Pirates near deal with outfielder Burnitz

Contract could be richest for free agent in franchise history

Tuesday, January 03, 2006

By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

 

The Pirates are close to a deal to sign free-agent outfielder Jeromy Burnitz. The sides have agreed to most aspects of a contract, a source close to the negotiations said yesterday, but some details remain, including Burnitz passing a physical. It is not known precisely what the other details are, but the source said they were not likely to prevent an agreement, which could be achieved in the next day or two.

 

Multiple reports out of Baltimore last week said Burnitz had agreed to a two-year deal with the Orioles worth between $10 million and $12 million. But Howard Simon, Burnitz's Connecticut-based agent, insisted yesterday that no deal had been struck and that he had told reporters only that he was "staying in close touch" with the Orioles. Simon's focus in the past three days has shifted to discussions with Pirates general manager Dave Littlefield.

 

Simon declined to offer specifics, but it is believed that Burnitz's contract would be for two years with a total value in the range of $12 million, which would make it the richest free-agent signing in the Pirates' history. However much they are offering, it appears it is more than still-on-the-table offers from the Orioles and Houston Astros.

 

Burnitz, who will turn 37 April 15, fits the description of the type of player Littlefield has been targeting for right field. He is a left-handed power hitter, with 299 career home runs to go with a .255 average, and is sound defensively. The Pirates' courtship of Burnitz is their second in as many years. He was the only prominent free agent they pursued last offseason, and they narrowly lost out on his services to the Chicago Cubs. Each team offered a $4.5 million salary, but the Cubs added a $7 million option for 2006 with a $500,000 buyout.

 

Chicago exercised that buyout after last season, one in which Burnitz batted .258 with 24 home runs, 31 doubles and 87 RBIs. He led the team with 160 games played and 40 two-out RBIs. Most of Burnitz's production for the Cubs came out of the cleanup spot, which is where the Pirates would use him, with Jason Bay and Sean Casey batting around him -- one in the third spot, the other fifth -- and Joe Randa at sixth. Burnitz has topped 100 strikeouts in each of his nine full seasons of Major League Baseball, including 109 last year, but management says it believes it can minimize that by surrounding him with good contact men such as Casey and Randa.

 

It might seem Burnitz's bat would be a good fit for PNC Park, given the proximity of the Clemente Wall in right field and his ability to pull the ball, but his history there is spotty. He has a .174 average and three home runs in 92 at-bats. There is little doubt Burnitz would be a good fit in right field. He showed two seasons ago in Denver's spacious Coors Field he could cover enough ground to spend 69 games as the Colorado Rockies' center fielder, and he would not have nearly that much territory at PNC Park. Also, he has a strong and accurate arm that would be accented by the shorter throws to the infield.

 

Right field is the last unchecked mark on Littlefield's list of positions he said he hoped to upgrade this offseason, the others being first base (Casey), third base (Randa) and right-handed relief (Roberto Hernandez). The Pirates, who have an estimated $9 million to spend toward their payroll for next season, considered several possibilities for the spot. One was a brief inquiry with Preston Wilson, the most expensive free agent remaining. Bob Bry, Wilson's Missouri-based agent, said yesterday that he spoke twice with Littlefield early last week and that it was clear they would go no further.

 

Another was the chance of making a trade with Tampa Bay for Aubrey Huff, a player they long have coveted. A source close to the Devil Rays said over the weekend that it was not clear if the Pirates had pushed for Huff, who has been on the trading block for three months.

[ksushi]

Jeez, Burnitz is bouncing around like crazy, agreed in principle with the O's then close with the Stro's and now hes a Buc? Good for him!

 

Anyway, I think I was insulted by example somewhere up there, which is always great. And second, I know alittle bit about the prospect and he can bomb. Hes a solid hitter, but I don't know much about his defensive ability which might be key as to keeping or dealing Marte.

 

So yeah, I'm starting to think that there is something to this rumor, and maybe for the first time the red sox can keep their big mouths shut about a possible deal and there was a small leak to this insider. Why you think that sosh is reliable? I don't know. Anyone with $100 can post there, doesn't mean they know anymore than you do.

[Beckett95]

The o's want to give Markakis a chance to play everday next year, so i dont see them giving him up.

 

Baltimore Sun--Perlozzo probably still isn't sure who will be his everyday center fielder, but it is expected that top prospect Nick Markakis will be given the opportunity in spring training to win the job. Luis Matos, last year's starter in center, also remains an option, but his name has been mentioned often in trade talks. Dec. 27, 2005

 

Just make the deal for Tejada and Matos. Markakis probally isnt MLB ready yet anyway.

[ORS]

RotoWorld.com

 

According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox may be asking for both Miguel Tejada and top prospect Nick Markakis from the Orioles for Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement.

 

That's not going to fly. The Orioles are believed to be willing to move Luis Matos, but Markakis, like Erik Bedard, should be off-limits in talks. Another potential stumbling block in the rumored Ramirez-Tejada swap is that Ramirez may demand that his options for 2009 and 2010, worth $20 million each, be picked up in a deal. It'd be an incredibly foolish move on his part (his agent's part?) if he so badly wants out of Boston, because no team is taking him on at that price.

If the Sox are going to stick to this demand, and/or Manny requires his contract options to be picked up to waive his 10/5 rights, then he won't be going anywhere. See you in Ft. Myers, Manny.

[riverside sluggers]

Another frustrating part in the Manny saga for the front office, he demands to be traded but yet at the same time he makes it harder for them to actually do it.

[MANNYHOF24]

Like if have been saying, Manny isnt going anywhere

[a700hitter]

The FO better cut bait on this Manny/Miggy deal and get down to filling the other holes. Their options are quickly dwindling.

[example1]

Anyway, I think I was insulted by example somewhere up there, which is always great.

 

Sorry man. I appreciate your picture of Trey and most of what you have to say. I'm not sure what you were insulted by, but sorry.

 

I'm still waiting, though, for you to explain why we shouldn't get Tejada if we have the opportunity. Anything else I should appologize for. If so, sorry bud.

 

EDIT: add quote

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Sorry man. I appreciate your picture of Trey and most of what you have to say. I'm not sure what you were insulted by, but sorry.

 

I'm still waiting, though, for you to explain why we shouldn't get Tejada if we have the opportunity. Anything else I should appologize for. If so, sorry bud.

 

EDIT: add quote

 

There are reasons for and against getting Tejada.

 

Manny Ramirez is a better hitter than Tejada. Giving up Matt Clement (a rotation pitcher) with nothing in return is lopsided toward the Orioles. Not to mention we have to pick up the money. This is only if the Red Sox don't aquire another player in which case Clement isn't as big a deal. Also whoever said Tejada is a good defensive player needs to think again....he will make 20+ errors a season which is slowly making ground toward Edgar Renteria.

 

Reasons for getting Tejada: solves the Manny Ramirez headache but creates a new one of having to play against him instead. Then again it works both ways cause they need to face Tejada. We need a SS and we are filling it with arguably the best in the game right now. Above all else the man is a team leader and WANTS to win. I have to take his desire to succeed over anything cause having a "selfish me-first" player does not bold well for the rest of the team. Not to mention the distractions they can bring toward the media.

 

Because of Tejada's desire to play hard and win the World Series I will take him in this trade hands down. I'm also interested to see what he can do in Fenway Park with guys ahead of him who constantly get on base.

[example1]

There are reasons for and against getting Tejada.

 

Manny Ramirez is a better hitter than Tejada. Giving up Matt Clement (a rotation pitcher) with nothing in return is lopsided toward the Orioles. Not to mention we have to pick up the money. This is only if the Red Sox don't aquire another player in which case Clement isn't as big a deal. Also whoever said Tejada is a good defensive player needs to think again....he will make 20+ errors a season which is slowly making ground toward Edgar Renteria.

 

Reasons for getting Tejada: solves the Manny Ramirez headache but creates a new one of having to play against him instead. Then again it works both ways cause they need to face Tejada. We need a SS and we are filling it with arguably the best in the game right now. Above all else the man is a team leader and WANTS to win. I have to take his desire to succeed over anything cause having a "selfish me-first" player does not bold well for the rest of the team. Not to mention the distractions they can bring toward the media.

 

Because of Tejada's desire to play hard and win the World Series I will take him in this trade hands down. I'm also interested to see what he can do in Fenway Park with guys ahead of him who constantly get on base.

 

I was initially torn about this deal myself. Not because I woultn't want Tejada though, but because I hoped something could be worked out to keep Manny. The more I think about it though, and the more I watch the FO work to deal Manny, the more I am convinced that Manny just isn't coming back. The FO wants him to leave, he wants to leave.

 

Given that, the best deal I could imagine is for one of the top players in the game. A guy with considerable power. A guy who is a great fielder. A guy who is a good leader and former MVP who just happens to play a position that the sox need. This is a guy the sox could lock up for a few years, a guy who wants to play in Boston and who wants to tag-team with Ortiz... something that manny--for whatever reason--doesn't want to do.

 

CF is an important position and will be another important acquisition. However, SS is more important. The sox have not had a locked up SS for the past 3-4 years and it has been an increasing headache.

 

According to most metrics Tejada is as valuable as Manny. His defense obviously makes the difference. I just didn't understand why ksushi dismissed it as something the sox just didn't need to do. It seems like something they do need to do if it is possible.

[Beckett95]

1. They need to make this deal happen by the end of the week and they then need to worry on making only a few other moves. I also think they should get matos in the deal to play CF. He is a very good CF who can cover a lot of ground. Id be fine with him batting 9th in the lineup. over the last 3 years hes had a BA of .270 (only reason its that low is because of his 2004 season when he hit .224 and missed half of the year with injuries) and an OBP of .328. They are not great numbers, but are good enough for him to bat 9th. Its a much better option than to trade someone like marte for gathright.

 

scouting report on Matos

Matos is a line-drive hitter who generates his power from a quick swing. More times than not, he's a dead pull hitter who doesn't use the entire field enough. His weakness at the plate is swinging at fastballs up in the strike zone and low-and-outside breaking balls. While Matos hits righthanders, he struggles against southpaws when they paint the outside corner. He has above-average speed that garners steals, but he doesn't study pitchers enough to improve his technique and success rate. Defensively, Matos covers a lot of ground, especially in the gaps, and throws accurately.

 

2. Trade David Wells and maybe Alex Cora or a prospect for an OF(Shawn Green, J.D. Drew, worst possibilty Ryan Klesko or Dave Roberts)

 

3. Sign a Right-handed OF to platoon with Trot. (Jamal Strong, Eli Marrero, Raul Mondesi, maybe Kapler if hes ready)

 

 

LINEUP

1. Mark Loretta—2B—R

2. Kevin Youkilis—1B—R

3. David Ortiz—DH—L

4. Miguel Tejada—SS—R

5. Shawn Green—LF—L

6. Mike Lowell—3B—R

7. Trot Nixon—RF—L

8. Jason Varitek—C—S

9. Luis Matos—CF—R

 

BENCH

John Flaherty—C—R

Jamal Strong—OF—R

Tony Graffanino—IF—R

J.T. Snow—1B—L

Adam Stern—CF—L

 

BULLPEN

MRP—Rudy Seanez—R

MRP—Lenny Dinardo—L

MRP—Craig Hansen/Manny Delcarmen—R

SU—Mike Timlin—R

SU—Guillermo Mota—R

CL—Keith Foulke—R

 

ROTATION

1. Curt Schilling—R

2. Josh Beckett—R

3. Tim Wakefield—R

4. Bronson Arroyo—R

5. Jon Papelbon—R

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

1. They need to make this deal happen by the end of the week and they then need to worry on making only a few other moves. I also think they should get matos in the deal to play CF. He is a very good CF who can cover a lot of ground. Id be fine with him batting 9th in the lineup. over the last 3 years hes had a BA of .270 (only reason its that low is because of his 2004 season when he hit .224 and missed half of the year with injuries) and an OBP of .328. They are not great numbers, but are good enough for him to bat 9th. Its a much better option than to trade someone like marte for gathright.

 

scouting report on Matos

 

 

2. Trade David Wells and maybe Alex Cora or a prospect for an OF(Shawn Green, J.D. Drew, worst possibilty Ryan Klesko or Dave Roberts)

 

3. Sign a Right-handed OF to platoon with Trot. (Jamal Strong, Eli Marrero, Raul Mondesi, maybe Kapler if hes ready)

 

 

LINEUP

1. Mark Loretta—2B—R

2. Kevin Youkilis—1B—R

3. David Ortiz—DH—L

4. Miguel Tejada—SS—R

5. Shawn Green—LF—L

6. Mike Lowell—3B—R

7. Trot Nixon—RF—L

8. Jason Varitek—C—S

9. Luis Matos—CF—R

 

BENCH

John Flaherty—C—R

Jamal Strong—OF—R

Tony Graffanino—IF—R

J.T. Snow—1B—L

Adam Stern—CF—L

 

BULLPEN

MRP—Rudy Seanez—R

MRP—Lenny Dinardo—L

MRP—Craig Hansen/Manny Delcarmen—R

SU—Mike Timlin—R

SU—Guillermo Mota—R

CL—Keith Foulke—R

 

ROTATION

1. Curt Schilling—R

2. Josh Beckett—R

3. Tim Wakefield—R

4. Bronson Arroyo—R

5. Jon Papelbon—R

 

Very nice Beckett95. I like to the look of that team and agree with the idea of aquiring Shawn Green or JD Drew. If I had my choice I would take JD Drew based on his OBP and slugg%. Its rare to see someone throw up a OPS above 1.0 but Drew has done it before. Hitting in Fenway I think Drew could be a monster but the Sox would have to find a way to keep him healthy. I think Luis Matos would be a good utility outfielder since he is good on defense. I would still like to see the Red Sox go after Corey Patterson by himself since he may come cheap. I don't think the Cubs have any use for him. One step at a time though....lets aquire Miguel Tejada already.

[ksushi]

Are the D-backs still shopping green? That is an idea. I like green a lot he'd be a very good replacement in left field if the Tejada deal goes through.

 

and example, I'd be happy to see the metrics that make Tejada as valuable as manny. I don't know if they exsist.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Are the D-backs still shopping green? That is an idea. I like green a lot he'd be a very good replacement in left field if the Tejada deal goes through.

 

and example, I'd be happy to see the metrics that make Tejada as valuable as manny. I don't know if they exsist.

 

I'm not sure Tejada is any better of a hitter than Manny in any category. The one thing I like about Tejada is how he hits well when he needs to...kinda like David Ortiz. Two clutch hitters back to back to scarey. Not that Manny wasn't clutch but he didn't come up with as many winning hits as the other two.

[ksushi]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not weeping over tejada, I just think the tejada trade points to the FO abandoning ship. Their plan as to this point has been to get younger and build a core of young players that can yield champoinship runs year after year. Getting Tejada seems to point to subsequent acquitistions of veterans who will clog up slots which the kids should fill and cost us young players. I suppose if they signed Wilson, and traded Wells for a left fielder I would have nothing to bitch about but it just seems like its flirting with abandoning ship, that, to me is a little unnerving.

 

Don't fix what ain't broken, and Manny hitting behind Ortiz with Cora manning shortstop is not broken at all, especially when you have to only survive on that for a year until you can fill holes with more suitable replacements. A year from now Ellsbury may be ready, a year from now pedroia will be ready, and a year from now Jon Lester along with Papelbon will be able to establish himself as a major league pitcher. Why tinker?

[riverside sluggers]

Didnt Tejada just turn 29? By the time his contract ends he would be around 32/33.

 

Still Tejada embodies the leader of th clubhouse and the desire to win, the guy has not missed a game for the last 3 seasons now. I can see him taking rookie infielders like Marte and Pedroia under his wing.

[Beckett95]

Are the D-backs still shopping green? That is an idea. I like green a lot he'd be a very good replacement in left field if the Tejada deal goes through.

 

and example, I'd be happy to see the metrics that make Tejada as valuable as manny. I don't know if they exsist.

 

I was thinking they could go after Wells now that they got rid of Glaus's salary.

 

Boston Globe-- The Sox also continue to seek a new home for David Wells, who like Ramírez has asked out of Boston. Sox president and CEO Larry Lucchino, while home for Christmas in San Diego, met with Padres GM Kevin Towers. But even after that meeting nothing was imminent between the clubs, as the Sox continue to canvass other options on the West Coast. Los Angeles and San Diego still appear to be the likeliest landing spots, though there were indications the last couple of days that Arizona, having cleared Troy Glaus's contract off the books, might pursue Wells. Dec. 29

 

I also saw somewhere recently that they were trying to move Green or Gonzo for pitching, so they can let Carlos Quentin play RF.