Some good news?

[a700hitter]

tejada is also 4 yrs younger than manny as well and could put up great numbers hitting behind ortiz and in fenway park.

It's really the only Manny trade scenario that is reasonably acceptable.

[jsinger121]

thats as close to equal value as the red sox would get. nothing else comes close unless the angels parted with brandon wood, howie kenrick and another prospect. we all know they won't do that. this deal with the orioles makes the most sense and the only thing that would be holding this up is money.

[Cityofchampions33]

The Globe says it's only the Same-division factor that is keeping this deal from happening. But if it does, I'm not worried about our offensive output at all, as I posted before, we upgraded offensively almost everywhere we made acquisitions.

[example1]

In terms of raw numbers, this is correct. But 3-2-1 VORP over the last 3 years suggests it is a wash. Manny's is 70.1, and Miggy's is 69.0.

 

Doesn't that take position into account though? I thought I read that you said that earlier, either here or in another thread.

 

In any case, as far as the lineup goes, Manny is more valuable to just about ANY lineup than Tejada. As far as the entire team goes, I agree, its basically a wash given Tejada's defense and the non-measurables like leadership, pep and enthusiasm.

[ORS]

Doesn't that take position into account though? I thought I read that you said that earlier, either here or in another thread.

 

In any case, as far as the lineup goes, Manny is more valuable to just about ANY lineup than Tejada. As far as the entire team goes, I agree, its basically a wash given Tejada's defense and the non-measurables like leadership, pep and enthusiasm.

Yeah, VORP is value over replacement player at that position. Manny's raw numbers are much better, but since the baseline for LF is higher than it is for SS, their VORP is similar. If you add defense into the mix and look at WARP, then you get a clearer picture. Miggy's 3-2-1 WARP1 is 7.9, Manny's is 6.9. I'll be giddy if they can pull this trade off because you can find decent corner OFs much easier than you can find good middle IFs.

 

Is the latest deal Manny and Clement for Tejada and Matos? I thought I read it was somewhere.

[a700hitter]

Is the latest deal Manny and Clement for Tejada and Matos? I thought I read it was somewhere.

I've read some spec that the O's would try to include Javy Lopez in the deal to dump his contract.

[Cityofchampions33]

Lol, what would we do with him, I doubt he would like to be a back up

[example1]

I've read some spec that the O's would try to include Javy Lopez in the deal to dump his contract.

 

Seriously? Are the O's also looking to trade Brian Roberts and Bedard?

 

I thought the point of these trades was to make the team BETTER, not to dump everything they have overboard while taking on a 20million dollar salary. I just don't believe it.

 

I imagine the sox would swallow some of that, perhaps trading Lopez and taking some salary hits to get Tejada.

 

What the hell would that look like?

Manny and Clement for Tejada and Lopez? Ha! ha ha. ha ha ha ha.

[a700hitter]

Lol, what would we do with him, I doubt he would like to be a back up

I don't what we would do with Lopez. He's played 1 game at 1B. Maybe they spin him off in another deal.

[Beckett95]

Is the latest deal Manny and Clement for Tejada and Matos? I thought I read it was somewhere.

 

i havnt heard that yet, but it makes sense. Ive heard only manny and clement for miggy. Nick Markakis is most likely going to start in center for the O's so they would probaly be willing to deal matos to.

[mosox]

In keeping with this thread, the Toronto media is already putting the Jays ahead of the Sox. It's time for Yawkey Way to start making some moves.

 

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2005/12/29/pf-1371971.html

[Manny Goes Boom]

It looks like they got the Lyle Overbay syndrome.

[ORS]

In keeping with this thread, the Toronto media is already putting the Jays ahead of the Sox. It's time for Yawkey Way to start making some moves.

 

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2005/12/29/pf-1371971.html

I couldn't agree more. It's high time our FO started making moves based on the ramblings of a hometown journalist from one of the division foes. :sarcasm:

[sarasoxfan]

moreover, I think above else that that level of sarcasm should be commended..

[CrespoBlows]

Robinson Cano

Chien Ming Wang

Jason Anderson

Colter Bean

Matt Smith

Sean Henn

Melky Cabrera

Andy Phillips

Eric Duncan

Bronson Sardinha

T.J. Beam

I rest my case.

 

Cano will be a good player, that I'll give you.

 

Wang is horribly overrated, he simply strikes out too few players to be a good AL pitcher. At best, Wang will be a four or five starter, throw in the fact that he allows too much contact behind a porous Yankee defense will hurt him even more.

 

C'mon, please don't even list Colter Bean or Jason Anderson as prospects. The Yankees thought so badly of Anderson that they traded him for Armando Benitez. If you think this guy is a prospect, then you certainly don't know what a prospect is.

 

Colter Bean will be 29 when the season starts, so he's out.

 

Matt Smith is 26 years old already, it also hurts the fact that he started the season as a 26 year old in Trenton. Smith has bad perphial statistics he walks too many players, and allows way too many hits. It's doutbful he'll ever help the Yankees.

 

Sean Henn? Apparently you didn't watch him struggle to get the ball over the plate against the D-Rays.

 

Melky Caberra? His psyche is so damaged that he had to be sent down to AA ball after his cameo with the Yanks. He's worse defensively in CF than Bernie Williams is, his future is a COF, but he doesn't hit enough to justify a spot out there.

 

Andy Phillips? This guy isn't a prospect, he's not even close. Why the hell do you list these journeymen 29 year olds as prospects? I demand a response to this question.

 

Eric Duncan could be OK, but he needs to cut down on the strikeouts, and play some defense. Right now he's a DH, and the Yankees don't need anymore of those.

 

Bronson Sardhina, strikes out way too much. Plus he's still only in A ball, we need to see more of him

 

T.J. Beam is 24 years old, and hasn't reached AA ball. He needs a good year or he can't be considered a prospect anymore. Plus he's a relief pitcher, why do you have so many old relief pitchers as prospects.

 

You forgot J. Brent Cox, who could be good, but he'll more likely get hurt with his violent delievery

[CrespoBlows]

yea, Red Sox fans are convinced that Little League Baseball of America has better players than our farm system.

 

IT IS!!!!!

 

Ask any baseball expert and they will give you the same answer. Holy s***, who the hell is filling your heads with these ideas? Kevin Reese will develop into a starter?!! That's as likely as Soxfan getting laid.

[MANNYHOF24]

IT IS!!!!!

 

Ask any baseball expert and they will give you the same answer. Holy s***, who the hell is filling your heads with these ideas? Kevin Reese will develop into a starter?!! That's as likely as Soxfan getting laid.

 

[jsinger121]

crespoblows i love your assessment of the yankee farm system because i did the same thing and yankee fans tend to ignore it. i think one fan said that sean hean was a highly touted prospect. sean henn would be lucky to crack even the red sox top 15 prospects. he is not a good prospect at all. they have cox, hughes, and duncan but thats about it. duncan needs to strikeout less, hughes needs to stay healthy and cox well you don't know about him because of his violent delivery.

[26 to 6]

Kevin Reese will develop into a starter?!! That's as likely as Soxfan getting laid.

 

Yea your right

 

..I didnt say that Reese would develop into a starter, I said he could develop into a backup and possibly start on a bad team, such as guys like Jeff Leifer, Emil Brown, etc. Guys like that. Trust me, by no means do I think he will ever be a productive player for the Yankees or anyone else for that matter.

[26 to 6]

...but also, if you seriously think that our system is that bad that you could jokingly say Little League Baseball has better players than our system then you are a complete idiot. Our affiliates have all been in contention for their league's respective championship for the last few years in a row, and we have won several of them.

[Cityofchampions33]

Toronto seems to be a bit drunk with power in that article, Aaron Hill? Better than Loretta? He hardly beats out Cora. Also Lowell, if he performs as he should could easily beat out Glaus offensively and defensively.

[yankeessuck013]

That's as likely as Soxfan getting laid.

 

hahaha

 

[ksushi]

hey don't look at me, I'm a pirates fan, you guys knew that right? ... moving on

 

The yanks farm system is terrible, when eric duncan is your best prospect and he just hit .235 in trenton this year with an OBP of something like .330ish i think, its not happy times.

 

They need to unload guys for prospects because no matter how dismal 06 looks to be at the moment for the red sox, 07 and 08 are different stories. Pedroia looks to be ready, and willl get everyday duties at second base, center and short will get figured out this year, and things will shore up, 07 will be vicious in all likelihood with schilling stepping out just in time for lester to step in ( if we can manage some how to keep him). The sox will inject some youth in the next couple years and I keep hearing about these pitchers coming up with serious upside like Bowden and Hottovy, its unbelievable. The same can't be said for the yankees who will have down years as they get older and older. They need a good half out of Pavano just to up his trade value, and they need to deal Sheff or Giambi while they are hitting and try and bring back prospects, even if it means paying for them, they're willing to overpay for old guys, why not pay for their ticket out if it brings back young talent?

[CrespoBlows]

...but also, if you seriously think that our system is that bad that you could jokingly say Little League Baseball has better players than our system then you are a complete idiot. Our affiliates have all been in contention for their league's respective championship for the last few years in a row, and we have won several of them.

 

That doesn't mean they have players who are talented enough to compete at the highest level. That's usually the main objective for any big league club. Before the last couple of drafts, Steinbrenner ordered his team to draft players who could help out at Staten Island, forget New York. They may compete for titles at the minor league level, but that doesn't indicate that the players could play at the high level.

 

The Yankees have a thin farm system, extremely thin. There is without a doubt that the Yankee farm system is in the bottom five. You put that list of prospects a few post ago, but only Cano was legit, and he can't be considered a prospect anymore, he's exhausted his rookie status.

[Cityofchampions33]

Agreed,, not even the prospects you traded away were that good, Halsey and Navarro both haven't done s*** yet.

[jimmycarter05]

That's as likely as Soxfan getting laid.

 

 

What a harsh blow to Soxfan's manhood.

[Cityofchampions33]

Idk, I thought it was pretty accurate analogy

[jsinger121]

that yankee prospect list was a complete joke you put out. any expert or anyone from baseball america would have laughed at that list because there was nothing useful on that list that could help the big club. cano doesnt count because he is not a prospect anymore.

[ksushi]

Cano is going to be great though, I'm not sold on Wang, but Cano will be awesome.

[example1]

Cano is going to be great though, I'm not sold on Wang, but Cano will be awesome.

 

Yeah, especially when they trade him to the Marlins for Cabrera (eta 2008), along with the rest of their best young players.