Alex Rodriguez wins AL MVP

[Optimist]

Good for him. He deserved it.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Dude you should realize you will not win this. You just won't no matter how hard you try...you wanna hear what a Red Sox fan from NY has to say about it....well here I go....

 

We can go by the numbers, we can go by the team wins, we can do whatever but when its all said and done both players are about even on every level. They are both all-stars and great players but here is what makes David Ortiz an MVP. Everyone loves the guy...he makes everyone else around him better. I have never, NOT ONCE, heard a bad remark pointed toward David Ortiz. Everyone wants to talk about Manny protecting him in the lineup....EVERY coach talks about how they don't want to let ORTIZ beat them. The only other players in the Major Leagues I hear talks like that are about Albert Pujols and Barry Bonds....A-Rods name never comes up in those discussions. I talk to lots of baseball fans cause you can imagine there aren't a ton of Boston fans out here. I hear lots of hatred toward A-Rod. He isn't a team player, the lockroom doesn't like him, the coaches don't like him....believe it cause its true. There is a reason the team chemistry in NY is so bad...the players don't like him and the fans can't make up there mind about him.

 

....ask who you would would rather have on there team and who you would want to build around: David Ortiz

I disagree I dont hear the same things. A-Rod IS regarded as one of the elite players in this league. If he wasnt the writers wouldnt have voted for him. How do you measure a team player? I dont know how you do it. A player that hits the ball to the right side to advance a runner to 3rd? IDK,Gary Sheffield is known as an ******* in the media but If you ask guys like Chipper Jones they will say he was the best teammate hes ever had. As for players hating him I've never heard one player come out on his own team and bash him. The only thing I've heard come close is Sheffield saying that hes the most feard hitter in the lineup and he all know sheff is full of hot air. As for coaches bashing him I've never heard that either. If your going to throw things out there like that please provide examples. Also if your minimizing Manny's impact in that lineup then I dont know what to say. The bottomline is A-Rod is hated because he is regarded as a "pretty boy". Hes the highest paid player in the game and with that comes envy and jelousy. Ortiz is a great player but give me A-Rod to start a team. A-Rod=5 tool player.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I disagree I dont hear the same things. A-Rod IS regarded as one of the elite players in this league. If he wasnt the writers wouldnt have voted for him. How do you measure a team player? I dont know how you do it. A player that hits the ball to the right side to advance a runner to 3rd? IDK,Gary Sheffield is known as an ******* in the media but If you ask guys like Chipper Jones they will say he was the best teammate hes ever had. As for players hating him I've never heard one player come out on his own team and bash him. The only thing I've heard come close is Sheffield saying that hes the most feard hitter in the lineup and he all know sheff is full of hot air. As for coaches bashing him I've never heard that either. If your going to throw things out there like that please provide examples. Also if your minimizing Manny's impact in that lineup then I dont know what to say. The bottomline is A-Rod is hated because he is regarded as a "pretty boy". Hes the highest paid player in the game and with that comes envy and jelousy. Ortiz is a great player but give me A-Rod to start a team. A-Rod=5 tool player.

 

Trot Nixon, Joe Torre, and Jorge Posada eating out at Nebo after a Red Sox vs. Yankees game....a topic brought up about how A-Rod doesn't include himself with the team as much as they would like. The Jeter vs. A-Rod brawl in the locker room (that did really happen). A-Rod does not travel with the team half the time...would rather take his own private form of transportation. Remember when the Red Sox were all over A-Rod in the media before the 2005 season and nobody defended him. There are plenty of reasons why the team does not like him and if you don't hear any of the "hate" conversations around New York about A-Rod then you must be deaf. It gets louder and louder everytime the Yankees fail to win another championship. This year it was all over the place with his stink performance in the playoffs.

 

....I think it will be interesting to hear what people say now and how many jump back on his bandwagon. I also wonder what comments the team will make in honor of his MVP award. After all this was claimed to be Gary Sheffields team (by himself), or has it always been the captains team: Derek Jeter, clearly this team would not be where it is if it wasn't for Mo so he clearly deserved the credit.....nope.....the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team won it.

[He Hate Me]

Personally I think the MVP of the Red Sox (especially during their playoff push) was Manny Ramirez who had an abosultely monster of a second half, overshadowing Ortiz. Not to mention his presence behiond Ortiz got Ortiz better pitches to hit, helping him collect some of those "memorable" hits you guys keep talking about. If ortiz had won the award, the second best player on the Red Sox would have won it as well.

[empirestrikesback26]

Congrats A rod. Well deserved.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Trot Nixon, Joe Torre, and Jorge Posada eating out at Nebo after a Red Sox vs. Yankees game....a topic brought up about how A-Rod doesn't include himself with the team as much as they would like. The Jeter vs. A-Rod brawl in the locker room (that did really happen).

 

 

Never heard either and unless your in the locker room with them or having dinner with them its pure speculation based on what you heard with from newspapers or "soures". I really doubt Posada and Torre both are very classy would talk about their own player behind his back to a rival. A-Rod does have his own private jet but so does most of the players including god himself Derek Jeter. A-Rod btw is the best position player on the team. As for Rivera for MVP you can argue that every year.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Personally I think the MVP of the Red Sox (especially during their playoff push) was Manny Ramirez who had an abosultely monster of a second half, overshadowing Ortiz. Not to mention his presence behiond Ortiz got Ortiz better pitches to hit, helping him collect some of those "memorable" hits you guys keep talking about. If ortiz had won the award, the second best player on the Red Sox would have won it as well.

 

Saw that coming..

 

No Manny is not the MVP of the Red Sox or the league. He does not place the team first. He wants whats best for him as opposed to whats good for the team. Great hitter and posts huge numbers but I will take David Ortiz over him anyday. Teams tried everything to get David Ortiz out. If I recall....teams would attempt to pitch around David so the coaches worked with Ortiz to stop chasing garbage that was down and away. Amazing...with one of the best hitters all time behind him....teams still wanted to pitch around him. I don't know where all this "gets great pitches to hit" crap comes from.

[riverside sluggers]

Ortiz unlike Manny actually likes playing for Boston. He doesnt every month or so whine "I want a trade blah blah, I hate it here."

 

Not to mention his presence behiond Ortiz got Ortiz better pitches to hit, helping him collect some of those "memorable" hits you guys keep talking about.

 

so are you suggesting say if youkilis is batting ahead of manny, that he too would have a monster season that Ortiz had produced? yeah whats with us guys? walkoff hits and HRs are not "memorable". Give us a break dude.

 

I just think Ortiz is being under-rated, everyone is thinking that if Manny leaves Papi will just hit 15-20 HRs and drive in under 75 Runs. He is simply one of the most feared batters of this era for pitchers to face. If papi is starting to be intentionally walked to get to Manny, thats saying a lot.

 

second half:

Ortiz- 77 for 273 (.282 avg) 16 Doubles, 26 HRs, 73 RBIs, 56 Runs, 55 Walks

 

Manny- 78 for 248 (.315 avg) 14 Doubles, 23 HRs, 64 RBIs, 59 Runs, 41 Walks

 

Production wise Ortiz had a better second half, and was delivering walkoff hits all the way through the last week of the season.

[Optimist]

I don't know where all this "gets great pitches to hit" crap comes from.

 

Probably from the same place as this "Yankees get to the playoffs without A Rod" crap.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Never heard either and unless your in the locker room with them or having dinner with them its pure speculation based on what you heard with from newspapers or "soures". I really doubt Posada and Torre both are very classy would talk about their own player behind his back to a rival. A-Rod does have his own private jet but so does most of the players including god himself Derek Jeter. A-Rod btw is the best position player on the team. As for Rivera for MVP you can argue that every year.

 

I was hoping you would say that. I was sitting next to them at Nebo and got there autographs before they sat down to eat. Did A-Rod win a gold glove?? No but Jeter did.

[empirestrikesback26]

Why is there a debate? No question A rod deserved it, and it was close. I don't see anything to argue about. Transpired just how many, including myself figured it would.

[26 to 6]

cuz arod never chokes when it comes to the late innings and playoffs

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYOFFS

 

I am going to try to refrain from posting in this thread any longer because I am trying to avoid arguements...Im under enough personal stress as it is

 

Congratulations A-Rod, you DESERVED IT, regardless of what everybody else says.

 

If you guys think the Yankees would have made the playoffs without 48 HR's and 130 RBI's out of 3rd base then your morons. This idea that it was all Chacon and Small is BS. Yes they were a major part of it BUT at the end of the day it WAS A TEAM EFFORT. It wasnt just Small or Chacon or Wang or A-Rod or Mo or Jeter or Giambi it was all of them.

EXACTLY

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I was hoping you would say that. I was sitting next to them at Nebo and got there autographs before they sat down to eat. Did A-Rod win a gold glove?? No but Jeter did.

what does gold glove have to do with being the best player on your team?Going by that logic Jason Varitek is better then Manny because Varitek won a GG and Manny didnt. lmao A-Rod happens to have Eric Chavez playing the same position the the AL as him. Jeter didnt hit 48HR's nor drive in 130 RBI's. I'm not one of these guys who kisses Jeter's ass and shits on A-Rod. I'm a realist and A-Rod is just better. BTW I could say I was standing by the picked fence on the grassy nole when JFK was shot and say I saw 3 men. It doesnt mean I was there. You could have been there but I just dont believe Torre and Posada trash A-Rod behind his back. Joe Torre talking about Alex Rodriguez to Trot Nixion of all people. The story just doesnt jive.

[26 to 6]

also, why cant you guys just accept it?

 

If Ortiz won I would have nothing but praise for him, and I would accept it. Ive been saying for months that regardless of who wins that it is a fair selection.

 

Bottom line is that the writers felt A-Rod deserved it. He played spectacular defense, he finished in the top5 of all Triple crown categories, and he didnt sit against tough pitchers (Remember, Francona sat Ortiz on September 11 due to his "back", but also said that if Torre took Randy out, then Ortiz would be able to hit.).

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

also, why cant you guys just accept it?

 

If Ortiz won I would have nothing but praise for him, and I would accept it. Ive been saying for months that regardless of who wins that it is a fair selection.

 

Bottom line is that the writers felt A-Rod deserved it. He played spectacular defense, he finished in the top5 of all Triple crown categories, and he didnt sit against tough pitchers (Remember, Francona sat Ortiz on September 11 due to his "back", but also said that if Torre took Randy out, then Ortiz would be able to hit.).

excellent point I heard Michael Kay bring up that point. I agree on the Ortiz point. I would just accept it and move on.

[He Hate Me]

Saw that coming..

 

No Manny is not the MVP of the Red Sox or the league. He does not place the team first. He wants whats best for him as opposed to whats good for the team.

 

Yeah those 144 RBI only helped Manny. You're building Ortiz up to be some sort of a superman while tearing down others. All i does is set him up for an even bigger fall from grace next year when Manny isn't protecting him anymore.

 

 

Great hitter and posts huge numbers but I will take David Ortiz over him anyday. Teams tried everything to get David Ortiz out. If I recall....teams would attempt to pitch around David so the coaches worked with Ortiz to stop chasing garbage that was down and away. Amazing...with one of the best hitters all time behind him....teams still wanted to pitch around him. I don't know where all this "gets great pitches to hit" crap comes from.

 

Ortiz had 601 ABs, that doesn't sound like anyone who gets picthed around. You can get out Ortiz with down and away stuff. Manny would hit those suckers out. He's just a better hitter than Ortiz, period.

[gosox613]

Never heard either and unless your in the locker room with them or having dinner with them its pure speculation based on what you heard with from newspapers or "soures". I really doubt Posada and Torre both are very classy would talk about their own player behind his back to a rival. A-Rod does have his own private jet but so does most of the players including god himself Derek Jeter. A-Rod btw is the best position player on the team. As for Rivera for MVP you can argue that every year.

 

Refardless of the "faulty sources" you speak of, the example still remains of none of his teammates defending him before the season. Does that show that he is a team player loved by all? If someone said something about David Ortiz, the whole country would be defending him. Hes not only loved by all on his team, EVERYONE (opponenets excluded) love him. I think that shows how much of a locker room presence he is and how well liked he is by his teammmates. That is value: production and chemistry. Also, whats this that I am hearing about how important A-Rod is to his team? The Yankees would have went out and bought another big name for their hot corner. The numbers wouldnt have been the same, but comparable enough to have kept the Yankees in the race. Keep in mind that if you take A-Rod out of the equation, then that doesnt mean you also take out his position, someone else plays instead. Also, he had the tendency to rack up stats in a game the Yankees win by 20 runs. Is that valuable? By the way, I would like to thank him for getting his ass kicked by VTek in '04 to spark our historic run. I guess he was of value to us then.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

He's just a better hitter than Ortiz, period.

I agree with that also. I think Manny is more of a complete hitter. I also think Red Sox fans underrated Manny's impact on this line up.

[26 to 6]

excellent point I heard Michael Kay bring up that point. I agree on the Ortiz point. I would just accept it and move on.

yea, Mikey's been talking about that for months.

 

Today, Kay has a bunch of great points regarding A-Rod.

 

hes talking about how hes an un-selfish player because of the sacrifices he makes.

 

Such as:

Moving positions,

batting 2nd,

etc..

[riverside sluggers]

Ortiz had 601 ABs, that doesn't sound like anyone who gets picthed around. You can get out Ortiz with down and away stuff. Manny would hit those suckers out. He's just a better hitter than Ortiz, period.

 

actually this past season Manny had changed his stance and struck out a huge number of times on pitches down and away.

 

All i does is set him up for an even bigger fall from grace next year when Manny isn't protecting him anymore.

 

Again I say you have another thing coming if you think Ortiz will be lackluster. If Manny is so frigging more of a threat than Ortiz. Answer this: Ortiz was being intentionally walked so pitchers could instead face Manny. Period.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

yea, Mikey's been talking about that for months.

 

Today, Kay has a bunch of great points regarding A-Rod.

 

hes talking about how hes an un-selfish player because of the sacrifices he makes.

 

Such as:

Moving positions,

batting 2nd,

etc..

all excellent points by Kay.

[26 to 6]

all excellent points by Kay.

Thats why Michael Kay is my HERO!!

 

lol

[He Hate Me]

Ortiz unlike Manny actually likes playing for Boston. He doesnt every month or so whine "I want a trade blah blah, I hate it here."

 

So because Ortiz plays the happy go lucky "baseball has been veddy veddy good to me" role, you guys like him more than the loudmouth Dominican who just can't keep his mouth shut. That's a good bar to have to determine who is best for your team, certainly worked out well when you got rid of the other loudmouth, Pedro.

 

so are you suggesting say if youkilis is batting ahead of manny, that he too would have a monster season that Ortiz had produced? yeah whats with us guys? walkoff hits and HRs are not "memorable". Give us a break dude.

 

How about you give me a break, and tell me how you get from "Ortiz gets help from Manny" to "Manny turns scrubs into awesome hitters".

 

I just think Ortiz is being under-rated, everyone is thinking that if Manny leaves Papi will just hit 15-20 HRs and drive in under 75 Runs. He is simply one of the most feared batters of this era for pitchers to face. If papi is starting to be intentionally walked to get to Manny, thats saying a lot.

 

Who is underrating Ortiz? he's a great hitter, never said he was a scrub, unlike some other fans who feel that they have to tear down any opposing player's skills, I recognize that even though he's in a different uni, Ortiz is an awesome hitter. I just don't think he puts up his numbers without Manny batting behind him. Realistic projection for Ortiz without manny is .290, 30 HR, 100 RBI. Still great numbers, and still someone I would rather the Yankees not pitch to (as well as Manny)

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Thats why Michael Kay is my HERO!!

 

lol

LOL Kay might be the most hated Yankee announcer ever.

[gosox613]

Okay, Micheal Kay fan club, take your buisness elsewhere.

[26 to 6]

LOL Kay might be the most hated Yankee announcer ever.

I think Kay is great, I can understand why a lot of people dont like him, but they just need to look beyond some of the things that bother them. In my opinion Kay is one of the best otu there (not the best, probably not even top 5, but definately top 10).

 

anyways.....WE FINALLY GOT AN AWARD!!!

 

and with how my day's been going I thought that for sure Ortiz would get it, just to make my day even worse.

[Optimist]

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//ring_ortiz_150.jpg

 

http://www.seventh-inning-stretch.com/images/2k4-ws-photos/ortiz-ring.jpg

 

If the standard for baseball greatness is the possession of a ring, Ted Williams sucked.

 

Baseball gods forgive me for this sin; I do it only to show the ignorant the light.

[He Hate Me]

actually this past season Manny had changed his stance and struck out a huge number of times on pitches down and away.

 

Manny struck out 119 times, and that was probably due to him overcompensating for the scrubs hitting behind him. Ortiz meanwhile whiffed 124 times.

 

Again I say you have another thing coming if you think Ortiz will be lackluster. If Manny is so frigging more of a threat than Ortiz. Answer this: Ortiz was being intentionally walked so pitchers could instead face Manny. Period.

 

I never said Ortiz would be lackluster, .295 30 HR, 100 RBI is NOT lackluster.

 

Both Manny and Ortiz got 9 Intentional walks.

[He Hate Me]

If the standard for baseball greatness is the possession of a ring, Ted Williams sucked.

 

Baseball gods forgive me for this sin; I do it only to show the ignorant the light.

 

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[26 to 6]

Refardless of the "faulty sources" you speak of, the example still remains of none of his teammates defending him before the season. Does that show that he is a team player loved by all? If someone said something about David Ortiz, the whole country would be defending him. Hes not only loved by all on his team, EVERYONE (opponenets excluded) love him. I think that shows how much of a locker room presence he is and how well liked he is by his teammmates. That is value: production and chemistry. Also, whats this that I am hearing about how important A-Rod is to his team? The Yankees would have went out and bought another big name for their hot corner. The numbers wouldnt have been the same, but comparable enough to have kept the Yankees in the race. Keep in mind that if you take A-Rod out of the equation, then that doesnt mean you also take out his position, someone else plays instead. Also, he had the tendency to rack up stats in a game the Yankees win by 20 runs. Is that valuable? By the way, I would like to thank him for getting his ass kicked by VTek in '04 to spark our historic run. I guess he was of value to us then.

that whole incident before the season was pure immaturity on the part of some Sox players. They were acting like Middle Schoolers picking fights about littke things. And repeatedly, after it was all over and ST had begun, Yankee players praised A-Rod for how he handled it and explained why they did nto get involved (they didnt want the situation to progress). but also, you cant say that none of the Yankees defended him, because Bernie was vocal regarding this matter throughout all of the events.