Official NBA thread

[BoSox34]

Stoudemire said he was only leaving the bench to go check-in. I think this is true' date=' but I also think he used it as an excuse to get over to the action. We'll see. The only person that should be suspended is Horry. If I remember correctly, Antoine or Pierce was ejected a few years ago for something miniscule in comparison to this, in the playoffs.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure which one you're referring to but...

 

Pierce was ejected during game 6 in the 2005 playoff series in Indiana after throwing an elbow at Anthony Johnson

 

Antoine was suspended for game 4 of the same series after shoving a ref during a confrontation with Jermaine O'Neal.

 

I don't know how you could consider either one of these "miniscule" in comparison to Horry or Amare's actions.

[See Red]

Stoudemire and Diaw got a game suspension, Horry got two.

[redsoxrules]

Stoudemire and Diaw got a game suspension' date=' Horry got two.[/quote']

 

good chance for the spurs to take the 3-2 series lead going home

[TheKilo]

Gotta say this is a complete joke.

 

I guess Stoudemire had a point when he said the Spurs were a dirty team?

[See Red]

Gotta say this is a complete joke.

 

I guess Stoudemire had a point when he said the Spurs were a dirty team?

 

I would disagree with Stoudemire, actually, in regards to the Spurs being a dirty team -- well, aside from Bowen.

 

Bowen is a dirty player. As dirty as you'll find in the NBA today. There's no doubt in my mind that stepping on or kicking the back of Amare's heel was intentional, just as he likes to stick his foot out underneath jump shooters when they're landing on a shot attempt, as Ray Allen, Vince Carter and Steve Francis have accused him of doing. And then there was the knee in the crotch on Steve Nash.

 

And Manu Ginobli flops constantly. Same with Oberto, actually.

 

But other than that, I think the Spurs team is best described as "tough" -- it's like all of their playoff experience has kind of taught them what refs will and won't call, and how the officials swallow their whistles late in games, and they take full advantage.

 

On another note... I never realized how tough Steve Nash is. Guy's had his nose gashed open, been kneed in the junk, checked into the announcers table... and he just keeps getting up. Much respect goes to him.

[Manny Goes Boom]

I would disagree with Stoudemire, actually, in regards to the Spurs being a dirty team -- well, aside from Bowen.

 

Bowen is a dirty player. As dirty as you'll find in the NBA today. There's no doubt in my mind that stepping on or kicking the back of Amare's heel was intentional, just as he likes to stick his foot out underneath jump shooters when they're landing on a shot attempt, as Ray Allen, Vince Carter and Steve Francis have accused him of doing. And then there was the knee in the crotch on Steve Nash.

 

And Manu Ginobli flops constantly. Same with Oberto, actually.

 

But other than that, I think the Spurs team is best described as "tough" -- it's like all of their playoff experience has kind of taught them what refs will and won't call, and how the officials swallow their whistles late in games, and they take full advantage.

 

On another note... I never realized how tough Steve Nash is. Guy's had his nose gashed open, been kneed in the junk, checked into the announcers table... and he just keeps getting up. Much respect goes to him.

 

I know the Spurs are dirty, have said it for years. Bowen's the worst, but they all are like that.

 

Anyway, the suspensions are tough, but I still think Duncan and Bowen should be suspeneded also, but not for the Nash/Horry incident, but for earlier when James Jones and Francisco Elson got into it. Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen were not in the game, stepped on the floor and were off their bench. Same should be applied. But it won't happen because the NBA is in the Spurs corner, and it's ********. So we'll just have to be extremely motivated and play with the crowd (its going to be absurdly loud here) behind us and get it done.

[TheKilo]

I would disagree with Stoudemire, actually, in regards to the Spurs being a dirty team -- well, aside from Bowen.

 

Bowen is a dirty player. As dirty as you'll find in the NBA today. There's no doubt in my mind that stepping on or kicking the back of Amare's heel was intentional, just as he likes to stick his foot out underneath jump shooters when they're landing on a shot attempt, as Ray Allen, Vince Carter and Steve Francis have accused him of doing. And then there was the knee in the crotch on Steve Nash.

 

And Manu Ginobli flops constantly. Same with Oberto, actually.

 

But other than that, I think the Spurs team is best described as "tough" -- it's like all of their playoff experience has kind of taught them what refs will and won't call, and how the officials swallow their whistles late in games, and they take full advantage.

 

On another note... I never realized how tough Steve Nash is. Guy's had his nose gashed open, been kneed in the junk, checked into the announcers table... and he just keeps getting up. Much respect goes to him.

 

Bowen is a dirty player, no doubt.

 

But the fact that this series is most likely going to be determined by a cheap shot by Robert Horry is absolute garbage. Yes, the letter of the law says that the Phoenix players can't leave the bench, but in the spirit of the law should they have really been suspended? I mean, Bowen with his cheap shots earlier in the series, with all of the tension that has escalated in the three prior games, and then culminating in the Horry foul just brought all of the conflict to a head.

 

I was listening to Colin Cowherd this morning (bad choice most days, but he brought up some good points today), and he said a couple things of interest:

 

1. Tim Duncan, in the second quarter, left the bench after a hard foul. Now, I don't have any confirmation of this as I did not see it, but he seemed adamant that it happened. Obviously, it was not to the level of the Horry play, but if he left the bench (I guess the issue was how far he left), shouldn't he be suspended as well under the letter of the law?

 

2. The rule itself is very ambiguous and open to interpretation. While "rules are rules", the rule states that "During an altercation, players not in the game cannot leave the vicinity of the bench", or something like that. What defines altercation? What defines the vicinity of the bench?

 

 

I just think the NBA dropped the ball on this. Horry, a lesser player than Stoudemire and Diaw, by hip checking Nash into the scorer's table, has given his team a tremendous advantage.

[See Red]

I agree completely. The rule needs to be revised for sure. I think it's insane to think that Horry took a cheap shot, and without Stoudemire or Diaw throwing a punch, the ensuing suspensions result as an advantage for the Spurs... lose a bench player who's really only known because he doesn't succumb to pressure on clutch shots for an All-NBA first teamer? Not even fair. And just because they left the bench, no less. According to the NBA, here's things that they think are okay: intentionally kneeing another man in the crouch, intentionally stepping on the back of somebody's heel, a flagrant elbow to the face, or taking somebody head off on a hard flagrant... but don't dare leave the bench because that's a game suspension. That's insane to me -- I understand it's impossible to determine intent on the first two, but they've suspended based on reputation in the past and several star players have pinned Bowen as a dirty player and he's been suspended for such things in the past. f*** this League and it's terrible commissioner.

[TheKilo]

I agree completely. The rule needs to be revised for sure. I think it's insane to think that Horry took a cheap shot' date=' and without Stoudemire or Diaw throwing a punch, the ensuing suspensions result as an advantage for the Spurs... lose a bench player who's really only known because he doesn't succumb to pressure on clutch shots for an All-NBA first teamer? Not even fair. And just because they left the bench, no less. According to the NBA, here's things that they think are okay: intentionally kneeing another man in the crouch, intentionally stepping on the back of somebody's heel, a flagrant elbow to the face, or taking somebody head off on a hard flagrant... but don't dare leave the bench because that's a game suspension. That's insane to me -- I understand it's impossible to determine intent on the first two, but they've suspended based on reputation in the past and several star players have pinned Bowen as a dirty player and he's been suspended for such things in the past. f*** this League and it's terrible commissioner.[/quote']

 

If the rule is not revised, I shudder to think at the precedent it would set.

 

It's a damn shame the Suns are gonna get f***ed over this. I would love nothing more than to see them win tonight.

[Manny Goes Boom]

I would love nothing more than to see them win tonight.

 

Me too Kilo, Me too.

[redsoxrules]

No one is getting suspended.

 

At this crucial part of the season, for a foul as ticky-tack as this one? No freaking way.

 

OMG INABD

 

 

 

Wrong

[CrespoBlows]

Wrong

 

Hey, thanks. I noticed that.

 

This suspension is still absolute crap. The two reacted like just about any other player would have.

 

Why wasn't Bowen suspended in Game 3? When did taking out a shot at someone's groin, become less henious then leaping off a bench. Especially, when emotions are flaring as high as they have been. The reaction was perfectly reasonable.

[TheKilo]

Wow' date=' it's kind of ironic that Nash's flop (possibly to pick up the flagrant and/or more discipline for Horry) ended up sidelining two of the Suns' primary players.[/quote']

 

Or maybe it was the elbow Robert Horry threw to Raja Bell.

[See Red]

I've got to be honest... I'm not sure how that can be construed as a flop on Steve Nash's part. I've watched the video a few times just now and I don't see how anyone could see it that way, and I'm more critical of flopping in the NBA than anybody on this forum. It wasn't an attempt at a foul, it was throwing a shoulder into somebody that's running full speed towards you.

[BoSox34]

I've got to be honest... I'm not sure how that can be construed as a flop on Steve Nash's part. I've watched the video a few times just now and I don't see how anyone could see it that way' date=' and I'm more critical of flopping in the NBA than anybody on this forum. It wasn't an attempt at a foul, it was throwing a shoulder into somebody that's running full speed towards you.[/quote']

 

Hahaha, if you don't think he contributed to that air canada long distance flight, you must be blind. Listen, I love nash just as much as the next guy and I agree that that was a flagrant foul on Horry's part and completely unnecessary but Nash added a little drama to it. The shove really wasn't as hard as you'd think it was from his soar, it wasn't even a full body check. Look at the video again.

[CrespoBlows]

Gift-wrapped.

[ORS]

A guy, a lawyer to boot, called in to a radio program down here with a really good point. Just because their action violated the written letter of the rule does not mean the commissioner's hands were tied and he had to suspend them. A rule is a rule, just like a law is a law, but we see judges challenge laws every day if it is a bad law. The judge, or commissioner, is to look at the intent of the law, or rule, and determine why it was written and then apply that to the case. The intent of this rule was to prevent an escalation of a physical altercation. No escalation happened, so, in essence, they didn't violate the intent of the rule, which means the rule is a bad rule because it doesn't allow for cases were the intent is followed.

 

He went on to add that a big component of judges' decisions is the condition of absurdity. If the outcome of a law results in punishing the intial victim and rewarding the initial violator, then the law should not be applied. So, in this case, the perpetrator of the initial violence, the Spurs, were given the advantage over the victim in the application of justice. This fails the absurdity test.

 

And, as we now know, that advantage was a difference maker. Bad rule. Bad commissioner. Stern is a joke.

 

Go Suns.

[Mr Crunchy]

phoenix f***ed up badly last nite

they had the game 1 but decided to stop defending the 3

stoudamires loss had little effect in my opinion

they were in a position to win and failed

[ORS]

I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on impact, but I have a hard time believing that taking away the inside presense didn't matter in a 3 point game.

[Mr Crunchy]

whether it mattered in the 1st 45 minutes or not doesnt erase the fact that the suns were up 8 late in the 4th quarter and were crucified by the outside game as opposed to tim duncan

they can use the loss of stoudamire as an excuse if they so choose but its ******** in my opinion

they had the game won and gave it up in the last 2 minutes

 

how about jersey scoring 6 4th points and still beating cleveland by 11

1 hoop,4-10 from the stripe in the 4th and they still win by 11??

 

the west coast plays good hoop

the eastern conference is disgraceful

[ORS]

From the chatter I've heard on the radio it sounds like Nash and crew were gassed from playing extreme minutes. I can't fault Mike D for keeping his horses in when they were playing short. Like I said, I didn't see it, West Coast sports aren't an option when the alarm goes off at 4:00 am, but I can see how perimeter D breaks down late when the outside guys have to carry the load for 45:00. Just a thought.

[Rodney Harrison]

they can use the loss of stoudamire as an excuse if they so choose but its ******** in my opinion

they had the game won and gave it up in the last 2 minutes

 

Exactly. Phoenix was leading most of the game and they laid an egg in the 4th quarter. Now they'll have to win another game in San Antonio (which is nearly impossible) to have a chance at winning the series.

 

That being said, Utah vs San Antonio will be a snooze-fest.

[Mr Crunchy]

i wouldnt count out the suns just yet

the real mvp is on that team and i think stoudamire may explode due to his suspension

they got a pop

that said san antone has been there and done that so it should be interesting

[See Red]

ORS has it right, Phoenix was absolutely gassed at the end of that game. And when they lose their horse down low, they become even more of a jump shooting team and it's not easy to drain threes on tired legs, and it sure as hell ain't easy to defend when you're gassed. They already have something of a short bench, I've always thought, it gets a hell of a lot shorter when you lose two guys like Amare and Diaw.

 

It'll be tough to go and win in San Antonio but they've done it before. I think the Spurs take this game 6, though.

[schillingouttheks]

f*** the Spurs and the league's s***** commish. I hope the Jazz find a miracle and send these *******s back home ASAP. Great team, but dirty.

[YanksHater213]

Wow whats with all the Spurs hate? Dirty? Maybe, but they're not breaking any rules. There is a fine line between breaking and bending and they definitely bend them.

 

I predicted the Spurs at the beginning of the playoffs and I'm sticking to my guns. They're experienced, play great defensive basketball, and have one of the top 3 big men I have ever seen play basketball in Tim Duncan. I absolutely love watching him play.

 

The Jazz CAN take them out too (will they? that remains to be seen how they play in this huge situation), they have more offensive firepower than the Suns do. Boozer down low, Okur can play inside and out, Kirilenko can score in stretches, Harpring, Giricek, and Fisher are awesome when they're on, and Deron Williams is elevating himself to ELITE point guard status.

 

I absolutely love the Jazz and the Boozer/Duncan matchup should be a great one.

 

But mark my words (I'll eat them if this doesn't happen, but I'm confident in this), the player that's going to have the biggest impact on this series? Memhet Okur. San Antonio has a lot of trouble defending bigs who can play inside and out, and Okur is a guy that fits that mold. If he turns it up, he's going to be scoring 25+ a night with the way Oberto/Duncan will not want to go out and defend him on the perimeter and open up the inside. It's going to open up the inside big time for Boozer and Kirilenko to post up. Popovich is going to need to figure out some crazy defensive scheme for this one.

 

Can the Jazz win? Absolutely. Will the Jazz win? I'm still sticking with San Antonio. Duncan will step it up big time, I'm taking the Spurs in 7 in a friggin great series.

[BoSox34]

But mark my words (I'll eat them if this doesn't happen, but I'm confident in this), the player that's going to have the biggest impact on this series? Memhet Okur. San Antonio has a lot of trouble defending bigs who can play inside and out, and Okur is a guy that fits that mold. If he turns it up, he's going to be scoring 25+ a night with the way Oberto/Duncan will not want to go out and defend him on the perimeter and open up the inside. It's going to open up the inside big time for Boozer and Kirilenko to post up. Popovich is going to need to figure out some crazy defensive scheme for this one.

 

You should set the table and buy some appetizers because you'll be feasting on those words after this series ends. Mehmet Okur, an overrated streaky shooting big man who can't post up and can barely rack up rebounds and completely benefits from the system he plays in, will have the biggest impact? Please...During the 4 previous games between these two teams, Okur put up 10, 10, 16, and 31, averaging 16 and some change against the Spurs, far from the 25+ that you think he can put up if he "turns it up". There's really nothing to turn up, considering that he is as one dimensional as you will find. The main factor is whether his shot falls or not, and that's very unlikely that he'd practically nail everything and suddenly ditch his streaky ways. After scoring 21 and 23 in the first two games of the Golden State-Utah series, he completely cooled down and put up 15, 14, and 14 for the next 3 games, leading one to question his consistency. In the Houston series in the first round (a series where he saw a lot of Shane Battier), Okur put up the following point totals, 16, 19, 9, 16, 7 (2-12, 0-6 from 3), 4 (2-9, 0-2 from 3) 6 (2-14, 2-7 from 3). To suggest that Okur, who lacks both consistency and a polished all around game, will have the biggest impact on this series that features players like Tim Duncan, Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Boozer, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili is ridiculous. Mehmet Okur will NOT have the biggest impact on this series...not even close.

[YanksHater213]

Impact isn't about how good or great a player is. Impact is how much their play affects their teams performance.

 

He's averaging 9+ a game in the postseason, so it's pretty inane to say he can barely rack up rebounds.

 

The way this series will be played will benefit Okur so much more. The series against GS was a fast break series, Okur is a much more effective player on the offensive end in the half court set. Its pretty hard to set picks if you're running a fast break offense, and Okur's specialty is nailing jumpers behind and coming around picks.

 

Duncan and Oberto cannot defend Okur out on the perimeter and it'll most definitely open up opportunities for Boozer to handle himself down on the blocks.

 

You're talking Okur like he's garbage though, the guy is a GREAT player. Find me another 6'11 guy (besides Dirk) that'll give you 18/8 a night (his averages the last 2 seasons combined) with good shooting percents and a few assists. Okur may be one of the most underrated guys in the NBA, I'd absolutely love a guy like him on the Celtics.

 

Like I said about 883838383849432 times, San Antonio will not be able to defend this guy out on the perimeter. Okur is a very smart player and he knows that and will look to expose it.

[BoSox34]

Impact isn't about how good or great a player is. Impact is how much their play affects their teams performance.

 

He's averaging 9+ a game in the postseason, so it's pretty inane to say he can barely rack up rebounds.

 

The way this series will be played will benefit Okur so much more. The series against GS was a fast break series, Okur is a much more effective player on the offensive end in the half court set. Its pretty hard to set picks if you're running a fast break offense, and Okur's specialty is nailing jumpers behind and coming around picks.

 

Duncan and Oberto cannot defend Okur out on the perimeter and it'll most definitely open up opportunities for Boozer to handle himself down on the blocks.

 

You're talking Okur like he's garbage though, the guy is a GREAT player. Find me another 6'11 guy (besides Dirk) that'll give you 18/8 a night (his averages the last 2 seasons combined) with good shooting percents and a few assists. Okur may be one of the most underrated guys in the NBA, I'd absolutely love a guy like him on the Celtics.

 

Like I said about 883838383849432 times, San Antonio will not be able to defend this guy out on the perimeter. Okur is a very smart player and he knows that and will look to expose it.

 

They did a pretty damn good job containing him today. 4-16 from the field and he racked up a grand total of 6 rebounds...you eating those words yet?

[CrespoBlows]

They did a pretty damn good job containing him today. 4-16 from the field and he racked up a grand total of 6 rebounds...you eating those words yet?

 

No, because you have to play at least four games to make that call.