Hanley to CF?

[NYH]

There was a story on Hanley Ramirez in this week's Sporting News. The Sox would be willing to try him at a different position because we have Renteria for the next four years. At 6'3" and 195lbs he might have the physical tools to take over for Damon eventually. Any thoughts?

[CrespoBlows]

Possibly, I'd put him there just because there are other prospects blocking him to move at other postions, Pedrioa (2b) and Soto (3b)

 

I want to see at least 10 HR's from Ramriez this year before we name him the starting CF in '06.

[NYH]

What are the odds that Damon returns in 06?

[yankeessuck013]

What are the odds that Damon returns in 06?

 

thus far nothing has been offered From ESPN Rumor Central....

 

Mar. 10 - Johnny Damon, who's in the final year of his contract, and his agent are waiting to hear from the Red Sox to begin talks, the Boston Globe reports. Damon is in a similar situation as Jason Varitek, Pedro Martinez, Derek Lowe, and Nomar Garciaparra faced last season.

While Martinez (Mets), Lowe (Dodgers), and Garciaparra (Cubs) seemed affected at times last year by their status, Damon believes he'll fall more closely in line with Varitek, who wound up re-signing with the Sox, and not let the uncertainty affect his 2005 season if a deal is not struck.

 

"I'd like to finish up my career here and get locked up for a long time," Damon told the newspaper. "I know it's always been Red Sox policy to wait until after the season, but that can get hairy. … I don't want to be looking over my shoulder at the All-Star break and thinking, 'OK, what's going on here.' "

 

 

****I think that this is Johnny Damon's last year with the Red Sox.* As great as he is, he gets paid $8 million a year, and I'm not sure if the Sox will want to sign him to a long term deal at those dollars.* If he has a year like he did last year, that may change.* He was great last year, but not so great in 2003.* See what happens.

[yeszir]

I was always a fan of moving Hanley to either 2b or OF. It used to be because we were supposed to have Nomar for a long time, and now it's Renteria. He'll be ready within the next four years, without a doubt, and we have to put him somewhere. His defense is tradtionally shaky, something that was supposed to have been worked out earlier but wasn't, which I think is the main argument for switching him to the OF.

[CrespoBlows]

He's got tremedous range, and great instincts for an OF. I don't want to see him ending up like Soriano at 2B (defensively) I think he'd be a tremendous defensive CF, but then again that's Moss' position. Too damn confusing

[BoSox Rule]

Hanley's too big to move to 2B.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Uh.... i always thought this, but isin't Millar and Mueller's contract up after this season? If so, why not make Youk a full time 1b and Hanley 3b?

[BoSox Rule]

I like Hanley's athleticism/range to think of him at thirdbase.

[CrespoBlows]

I doubt both of them will be regulars, for the Red Sox

[Zenny]

I still think Hanley is our 2006 CF. Pedroia will end up at 2B, Youkilis will be Mueller's replacement. We'll go outside the organization for a 1B (Lance Berkman?).

 

Moss isn't a CF now, he's an RF. I've been advocating a position switch, but now that Hanley could be our CF, I see Moss as Trot's replacement. They're very similar players, but with a little more power in Trot's favor and a little more average and OBP out of Moss. Granted, there's still a lot of room for power development out of Moss, who's no slouch in the department at his age, but he's also a prime burnout candidate given his history prior to this season. He's still a damned good prospect (#72 in baseball), but there's always that one-year wonder potential. I see him hitting for a lower average, but with better plate discipline and power between Wilmington and Portland next season. I don't see him being ready for another 2-3 years, despite what I had been saying earlier this offseason.

 

A player to watch out for is Mickey Hall, who was Augusta's RF last season. He has retarded power potential (IsoP of .201) and takes a lot of walks (IsoOBP of .096), but his average was awful last season (.246) and he struck out way too much (134 K's in 403 AB's). If he puts it all together, he could be extrememly good, but he's wicked raw and needs at least 3 more seasons under his belt.

[sarasoxfan]

I agree with yeszir about one thing -he'll be ready in four years.

 

So far he hasnt accomplished very much, but continues to overwhleming support and believers in here.

How can you even mention damon and hanley in the same breath, much less youk and billy. You guys get so jazzed unproven prospects, they are a dime a dozen, I saw him play here and he couldnt get the ball out of the field. I think he had one whopping one home in A ball..He is still in AA and might stay there to start this year.

I will bet anyone that hanley wont be in the organziation to play centerfield or aany position. As far as Youk goes, I frankly dont care where he plays or for whom, billy meuller is the man and hopefully will be aorund for awhile.

God, I hope they re-sign damon..so this thinking can go away..

 

I love the quote "if he puts it all together, he could be etxremely good..."...

I would like to think that applies to any one and every one.

 

get over these guys they are 3 or 4 years away from being major leaguers, and youk is a slow utility guy at best.

We have one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball and a batting champ one year removed at third.

That is okay by me.

[BoSox Rule]

If I remember correctly, Hanley was injured when he played in A Ball this year, hitting 1 HR and slugging .389. However, he still hit .310 with a .364 OBP. I don't know how that is relevant because he went to AA and went .310/.360/.512/.872 with 5 HR (25 per 162) with 10 walks to 26 strikeouts.

 

He also went 25/35 in stolen bases this year. Now that he is healthy, I would'nt be surprised to see his first .900 OPS season since his 2002 season (not including 6 games this year in the GCL)

[sarasoxfan]

at AAA?

[Zenny]

Mueller's only played three full seasons in his nine season career and only one (2003) since 2000. His knees are awful. He's just had another surgery on them. There's no way he's a batting champion any longer; he showed it last season and he'll show it again this season. I'll be shocked if he plays more than 120 games on the knees. He's been injury-prone his entire career and he's going to be 34 in 4 days. Youkilis is certainly capable of .280/.360/.440 seasons that Mueller would produce. I see no drop off. Mueller isn't exactly greased lightning on the basepaths either.

 

Don't expect another .304/.380/.477 season out of Johnny. It was clearly his best yet and an outstanding season behind only Ichiro as a leadoff man, but his career average is .287/.351/.431, which is skewed a bit too high due to the season he just had. He's going to be 31 this season and he's going to ask for a huge contract. His speed is on the decline also and he only stole 19 bags last year, after having at least 30 in the last two seasons with us.

 

I'm glad you know so much about Hanley after seeing him in three at bats. That makes me so confident in you. You know why he hit 1 homer in high-A? He had a dislocated shoulder. He hit 5 in AA in 129 AB's when he got healthy. I love how you cherry-pick stats that you'd like to fit your argument.

 

Look, if Hanley sucked, I'd be the first one to say it. He doesn't. He has tremendous athletic ability, he's Baseball America's #10 overall prospect and he was crushing the ball in AA as a 20 year-old in a league full of 22 and 23 year-olds. He's going to split the year between Portland and Pawtucket and continue to hit the tar out of the ball against players who are much older than he is.

 

I don't know why you have such a hatred for young players. It's that kind of backwards attitude that runs a franchise into the ground while attempting to maintain the status quo for too long of an extended period of time. Look at the Seattle Mariners. They steadily got worse from 2001 and everything fell apart in 2004 because they desperately tried to hang on to what wasn't there anymore. Then look at the Atlanta Braves. They got rid of Neagle. They got rid of Avery. They got rid of Glavine. They got rid of Maddux. They're still one of the premier teams in the game by recognizing the young talent they possess, getting it on the field and using veterans to fill in the holes.

[BoSox Rule]

sarasoxfan, tell me what Nomar was doing when he was Hanley's age. Hanley Ramirez has followed Miguel Tejada's career path to-a-T so far.

[mosox]

As good a spring as Hanley is having I still think he's trade bait on a Ben Sheets deal in July.

[BoSox Rule]

Ben Sheets isn't going anywhere, and even if he does the Brewers have much better options.

[Zenny]

Sheets isn't a free agent after this season. He's under contract through '06 and he and the Brewers are nearing a multi-year deal similar to what Santana got. I think they'll finalize it after this season, in which he dominates yet again.

[sarasoxfan]

some of things I read from you guys just make me roar with laughter--

 

"followed Tejada's career path to a T"...

 

that really makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

What they both play baseball, and were in the minors...

 

'It's the kind of backwards thinking than runs franchises in to the ground"

 

I wasnt aware that my thinking had that much impact on management, or that I could be responsible for bringing nay running a franchise into the ground. I'm a fan just like you, and your definitive predictions about who will do this or that are just that predicitions.

 

"and continue to hit the tar out of the ball.."

 

a defintive remark, is it a promise!

 

I just wouldnt get so jazzed about a kid who hasnt been in the show yet.

You guys have him running around center field already and the guy cant even buy beer yet.

[sarasoxfan]

there's a lot..a lot of culture here.

[RedSoxRooter]

I don't know why you have such a hatred for young players. It's that kind of backwards attitude that runs a franchise into the ground while attempting to maintain the status quo for too long of an extended period of time.

I'd agree with you if Boston were Seattle or Oakland, but we're not. We have a big payroll and last year was proof (at least to break the "curse") that Boston needs a veteran team to win with all the pressure and s*** in the media. Young guys usually don't pan out in Boston. Look at Nomar for God's sake - even he didn't pan out if the true goal is to win the World Series in Boston.

 

Our prospects are basically nothing more than bargaining chips for the team. If a real, REAL BIG prospect a-la another Clemens comes along, then I think the Sox would keep him. If it comes down to Damon having another great year and signing him for 3 years at 9 million/year, the Sox can afford that and will probably make an offer. We are not a poor team so keeping a rookie because he's cheaper than an established player is not even an option.

 

Damon I think we have to keep, even if it means paying too much. He's a lot like Tek in that way. Of course it aint my money, so I say spend away!

[Zenny]

Roar with laughter? Why, from ignorance?

that really makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

What they both play baseball, and were in the minors...

Why don't you look up the stats. As a matter of fact, Hanley holds the advantage over Tejada in the minors. At age 20, Tejada hit .279/.356/.459 with a ~.5 BB/k in high-A. At age 20, Hanley hit .310/.360/.389 in high-A due to injury, recovered and hit .310/.364/.512 in AA with a ~.4 BB/K. What, do you not like the fact that he put up 6 homers last year? If you extrapolate Hanley's healthy AA season over 400 at bats instead of 129, he would've hit 16+. Advantage: Hanley.

 

I wasnt aware that my thinking had that much impact on management, or that I could be responsible for bringing nay running a franchise into the ground. I'm a fan just like you, and your definitive predictions about who will do this or that are just that predicitions.

I'm not saying your thinking, you ego-maniac. I'm saying your type of thinking in other people. My projections are based on stats, scouting reports and prior experience. I'm still trying to figure out the arbitrary measures you judge by.

 

a defintive remark, is it a promise!

There is nothing definitive in baseball. What is definitive is that all the stats, peripheral or major, point to Hanley having one hell of a season next year.

 

I just wouldnt get so jazzed about a kid who hasnt been in the show yet.

You guys have him running around center field already and the guy cant even buy beer yet.

You know what makes him damn good? The fact that he isn't eligible to buy beer yet. He was excellent against guys 3 years his elder. That's an excellent judge of a player with star potential.

 

Look, I am not the only person who thinks this way about Hanley. Both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus are very high on him and they are much more reputable than you are. As far as him not making the show yet, they have to start somewhere. At age 20, Nomar was in college. At age 20, Tejada was a step behind Hanley.

 

If you actually came back with something tangible instead of laughing like a retard with no evidence to support your statement, I'd have some respect for what you say. Instead, I'll just listen to the thousands of more reputable others who like Hanley.

[Zenny]

Young guys usually don't pan out in Boston. Look at Nomar for God's sake - even he didn't pan out if the true goal is to win the World Series in Boston.

You honestly believe that Nomar didn't pan out? If Hanley turns into Nomar, I'd be more than happy.

 

Our prospects are basically nothing more than bargaining chips for the team. If a real, REAL BIG prospect a-la another Clemens comes along, then I think the Sox would keep him. If it comes down to Damon having another great year and signing him for 3 years at 9 million/year, the Sox can afford that and will probably make an offer. We are not a poor team so keeping a rookie because he's cheaper than an established player is not even an option.

We haven't had any real prospects since Nomar and Trot. The rest, like Sele, Suppan and Rose, were fringe guys. We've had an awful farm system for a long time. I'm not saying we should get rid of veterans for the sake of having younger guys in the lineup. I'm saying that it can prove to be a waste of money to sign these older guys to albatross contracts when there's younger talent that can produce the same type of season for a fraction of the cost.

 

Damon I think we have to keep, even if it means paying too much. He's a lot like Tek in that way. Of course it aint my money, so I say spend away!

If Damon goes out and hits like 2004, I say keep him. If he reverts to pre-2004 form, it's not worth the money he's going to be asking for.

[RedSoxRooter]

So then, *if* Damon can produce like 2004, what the hell do you do with Hanley?? Personally, I'd love for him to be at second or third. Actually, second because I hate bellhose. But that's just me. Mueller's days are numbered, but I don't see Hanley having any power against a third baseman we could probably get in a trade.

[RedSoxRooter]

You honestly believe that Nomar didn't pan out? .

I hate to say it, but no. If he didn't grow up in a Sox uniform and was coming here at 31 instead of leaving, I think he'd have enjoyed playing in Boston even more. He was awesome, but in the end it all got to him. I think the pressure in Boston is terrible for a young guy to deal with - at least it used to be. Here's to all that pressure being gone now. I hope anyway.

[BoSox Rule]

I'd agree with you if Boston were Seattle or Oakland, but we're not. We have a big payroll and last year was proof (at least to break the "curse") that Boston needs a veteran team to win with all the pressure and s*** in the media. Young guys usually don't pan out in Boston. Look at Nomar for God's sake - even he didn't pan out if the true goal is to win the World Series in Boston.

I know you didn't just judge a prospect panning out on the account of a team goal. Maybe I misunderstood.

[RedSoxRooter]

Well, I can't sit here an say that having a prospect pan out over 5 years is more important that winning, can I?

[Zenny]

The team around him had more to do with the team's success than Nomar did. Also, his personality just didn't fit. He was never meant to be "The Guy". By all accounts, Hanley flourishes under pressure, like the pressure he faced in the Dominican World Series in which he hit 5 homers in limited at bats for Licey.

[Zenny]

So then, *if* Damon can produce like 2004, what the hell do you do with Hanley?? Personally, I'd love for him to be at second or third. Actually, second because I hate bellhose. But that's just me. Mueller's days are numbered, but I don't see Hanley having any power against a third baseman we could probably get in a trade.

Then we're in a good situation to have. That means that we have a lot of depth with quality players. I don't see Mueller coming back for another year. His knees are shot. Should Pedroia continue to produce, that makes the 2B situation difficult. You have the incumbent Bellhorn, Hanley and Pedroia all battling for the spot.

 

If Damon is brought back, I don't see Hanley returning, unless we unload Renteria on someone else looking to make a splash.