Javier Vazquez to Boston?

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

This is a rumor floating around in the talk sox section but it deffinitly belongs here. So the Diamondbacks are interested in Jay Payton while they are also trying to move Vazquez. Javy has said the Boss will pay if he traded him so that could be a great opportunity for him. Usually I hate getting players from the Yankees BUT...this one did not end pretty. I don't doubt Vazquez talent and would EASILY welcome it for a backup outfielder. Obviously I think more would have to be added but I think Vazquez could be a Yankee killer. Not to mention a rotation thats looks like:

 

Schilling

Wells

Clement

Vazquez

Miller

 

Arroyo

Wakefield

Halama

 

That is some great depth not to mention there is plenty of room to make moves as the season goes on to fill holes. Vazquez has the motivation to prove the Yankees wrong and I'm sorry but....that seems like reason enough to persue a deal. Plus the Yanks are paying his salary HAHAHA.

[Yanksin2010]

Man I hope so. Home Run Derby every time he pitches against us.

[ahhchon]

gotta love yankee fans.

 

john

[Yanksin2010]

gotta love yankee fans.

 

john

Ya just have to.

[TheHammerOfGod]

gotta love yankee fans.

 

john

 

i think javi has a lot of talent...that being said...i cant really blame yanks in 2010 for saying it would be a HR derby for us. he might be a yankee killer but i really dont know where anyone would get that from w/out first seeing him pitch against the yankees. at least from last year, signs point to him being trampled on by the yankees. but who knows? :dunno:

[elsrbueno]

Some things that are worrysome about Vazquez:

 

He was 9-4 with a 4.13 ERA at home (Yankee Stadium is a pitchers park), and 5-6 with a 5.79 ERA on the road.

 

He definately struggled in the second half last year (4-5 with a 6.92 ERA and a .286 BAA)

 

His K's/9, Ks/BB numbers were way down in 2005 (granted, that was probably mostly hurt by his troublesome second half)

 

He struggled against Boston last year, arguably the next best offense to NY in the American League, and had an 8.10 ERA in Fenway.

 

It's hard to say WHY he struggled so badly in the second half of 2004, and who knows if he'd get back to his 2003 numbers (in which case I'd take him in Boston in a SECOND), but there are some numbers that would indicate he would struggle as a member of the Red Sox. Could the second half of 2004 have just simply been an adjustment period to his new league, new team, the pressures of winning in NY? Sure.... but he carries a hefty price tag for someone who has obvious question marks about his performance.

 

One reason NOT to give Payton for him:

 

Trot Nixon struggles MIGHTILY against LHP. Who'd play RF when there's a lefty on the hill? Randy Johnson, Steve Kline, BJ Ryan are just a few tough lefties in our division who could shut Trot down in a key spot.

 

Who'd be the 4th outfielder?

 

I believe Vazquez has potential to be a #2/#3 starter, and would have been thrilled had Theo traded for him a year ago. However, his 2004 season does have reasons for concern.

[ahhchon]

i think javi has a lot of talent...that being said...i cant really blame yanks in 2010 for saying it would be a HR derby for us. he might be a yankee killer but i really dont know where anyone would get that from w/out first seeing him pitch against the yankees. at least from last year, signs point to him being trampled on by the yankees. but who knows? :dunno:

 

it's not about that. if javy was still a yankee all you yank fans would be talking about how he's going to make a great comeback and be the next pedro like you were saying prior to his 2004 season.

 

now that he's not a yankee he's all of a sudden a terrible pitcher. all your judgements are biased, if they wear pinstripes they are good, if not, they suck.

 

john

[Yanksin2010]

it's not about that. if javy was still a yankee all you yank fans would be talking about how he's going to make a great comeback and be the next pedro like you were saying prior to his 2004 season.

 

now that he's not a yankee he's all of a sudden a terrible pitcher. all your judgements are biased, if they wear pinstripes they are good, if not, they suck.

 

john

LOL, actually you couldn't be more wrong. Pretty much everybody hated him at the YES boards, and wanted him gone. Including myself. You have no idea how tiring it was to see 0-2 pitches fly 400 feet. Javy being trade makes no difference at all, pretty much yankee fans still hate him.

[TheHammerOfGod]

it's not about that. if javy was still a yankee all you yank fans would be talking about how he's going to make a great comeback and be the next pedro like you were saying prior to his 2004 season.

 

now that he's not a yankee he's all of a sudden a terrible pitcher. all your judgements are biased, if they wear pinstripes they are good, if not, they suck.

 

john

 

 

u could not be more wrong. most yankee fans cant stand this guy (there are a few who still have high hopes for javi). thank u for playing tho :thumbsup:

[yankeessuck013]

i actually hope we get him

 

just makes our rotation that much deeper

[Yanksin2010]

i actually hope we get him

 

just makes our rotation that much deeper

and watch the balls fly that much farther.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

You shouldnt talk about pitching. You have two pitchers over 40 with health problems, a one-year-wonder with health problems in Wright, and a declining Mussina...watch the balls fly?? watch all your pitchers die....

[Yanksin2010]

You shouldnt talk about pitching. You have two pitchers over 40 with health problems, a one-year-wonder with health problems in Wright, and a declining Mussina...watch the balls fly?? watch all your pitchers die....

Uh huh, and all your pitchers are in their mid 20s right?

[elsrbueno]

Uh huh, and all your pitchers are in their mid 20s right?

 

In all fairness to Yanksin2010, Vazquez DID give up 33 HR and faced 849 batters.

 

That's a homerun every 25 at bats, or considering that he made 32 starts.... about 1 homer every start.

 

Compare that to, say, Mike Mussina who gave up 22 gopherballs in 697 plate appearances. That's a homer every 31 ABs.....

 

So, he does have a point. Of any Yankee pitcher in 2004 (who pitched a significant amount of innings) he was the easiest to hit a homerun against. Just ask Johnny Damon.

[ahhchon]

LOL, actually you couldn't be more wrong. Pretty much everybody hated him at the YES boards, and wanted him gone. Including myself. You have no idea how tiring it was to see 0-2 pitches fly 400 feet. Javy being trade makes no difference at all, pretty much yankee fans still hate him.

 

yeah, pretty much everyone at the YES boards thought that AFTER the all star break. before the ASB and before he played his first game he was the second coming of pedro.

 

john

[Yanksin2010]

yeah, pretty much everyone at the YES boards thought that AFTER the all star break. before the ASB and before he played his first game he was the second coming of pedro.

 

john

Probably because he was pitching like the second coming of pedro. After the ASB, he showed his true colors. I want the red sox to get him.

[TheHammerOfGod]

yeah, pretty much everyone at the YES boards thought that AFTER the all star break. before the ASB and before he played his first game he was the second coming of pedro.

 

john

 

of course b/c he SUCKED after the all-star break...he did very well (i wouldnt say second coming pedro tho) in the first half. most yankee fans were happy to see him gone b/c of how badly he sucked in the second half.

[ahhchon]

Probably because he was pitching like the second coming of pedro. After the ASB, he showed his true colors. I want the red sox to get him.

 

a 3.48 era (pre asb i believe) is nowhere NEAR the second coming of pedro.. neither was his whip, walk, k/9, k/bb etc etc etc etc.

 

hammer, that's my point, sorta. when he was doing half decent and before he was a yankee every yank fan thought he was the greatest thing in the world. now because of one bad 1/2 season he's going to be terrible for the rest of his career?

 

if that's the case carl pavano might be a rude awakening.

 

javy pre american leauge

2003 MON 34 34 13 12 0 4 1 230.2 198 93 83 28 57 241 3.24 1.11 .229

 

pavano pre american league

2004 FLA 31 31 18 8 0 2 2 222.1 212 80 74 16 49 139 3.00 1.17 .253

 

as you can see javy clearly has better numbers.. everything with the exception of ER's.. which can be affiliated with the marlins superior infield. pavano also had more wins, but that doesn't mean jack in my book.

 

john

[Yanksin2010]

a 3.48 era (pre asb i believe) is nowhere NEAR the second coming of pedro.. neither was his whip, walk, k/9, k/bb etc etc etc etc.

 

hammer, that's my point, sorta. when he was doing half decent and before he was a yankee every yank fan thought he was the greatest thing in the world. now because of one bad 1/2 season he's going to be terrible for the rest of his career?

 

if that's the case carl pavano might be a rude awakening.

 

javy pre american leauge

2003 MON 34 34 13 12 0 4 1 230.2 198 93 83 28 57 241 3.24 1.11 .229

 

pavano pre american league

2004 FLA 31 31 18 8 0 2 2 222.1 212 80 74 16 49 139 3.00 1.17 .253

 

as you can see javy clearly has better numbers.. everything with the exception of ER's.. which can be affiliated with the marlins superior infield. pavano also had more wins, but that doesn't mean jack in my book.

 

john

I doubt pavano will give up as many homers. Plus, if you're saying we only hate him now that he's on another team, you're very mistaken.

[TheHammerOfGod]

a 3.48 era (pre asb i believe) is nowhere NEAR the second coming of pedro.. neither was his whip, walk, k/9, k/bb etc etc etc etc.

 

hammer, that's my point, sorta. when he was doing half decent and before he was a yankee every yank fan thought he was the greatest thing in the world. now because of one bad 1/2 season he's going to be terrible for the rest of his career?

 

if that's the case carl pavano might be a rude awakening.

 

javy pre american leauge

2003 MON 34 34 13 12 0 4 1 230.2 198 93 83 28 57 241 3.24 1.11 .229

 

pavano pre american league

2004 FLA 31 31 18 8 0 2 2 222.1 212 80 74 16 49 139 3.00 1.17 .253

 

as you can see javy clearly has better numbers.. everything with the exception of ER's.. which can be affiliated with the marlins superior infield. pavano also had more wins, but that doesn't mean jack in my book.

 

john

 

hey--i think many yankee fans are fickle; they dont give many players much of a chance. however, i think u need to realize that javi would still be ripped by yankee fans even if he were still on the team. this isnt one of those instances where yankee fans are dissin' on him b/c he's moved to another team....they'd still be dissin' on his ass if he were on our team

[ahhchon]

you guys have no faith whatsoever. javy didn't put up great numbers, he didn't even put up good numbers. but hell, he's still young. i know many yankee fans who think trading for the unit was a bad idea. who knows.. it might be great.

 

the point is that 2010 thinks that javy sucks. i'm sure he was one of those fans who was saying javy was the 2nd coming of pedro. just like how pavano is going to be great.

 

10 bucks 2010 hates pavano by the end of the season.

 

john

[Yanksin2010]

you guys have no faith whatsoever. javy didn't put up great numbers, he didn't even put up good numbers. but hell, he's still young. i know many yankee fans who think trading for the unit was a bad idea. who knows.. it might be great.

 

the point is that 2010 thinks that javy sucks. i'm sure he was one of those fans who was saying javy was the 2nd coming of pedro. just like how pavano is going to be great.

 

10 bucks 2010 hates pavano by the end of the season.

 

john

Actually I wasn't. I wasn't saying he sucks, which I am saying now, but I deffinetly wasn't saying he was pedro. And I'll take that bet. http://dragon.stack.nl/~nushae/images/thumb.gif

[elsrbueno]

a 3.48 era (pre asb i believe) is nowhere NEAR the second coming of pedro.. neither was his whip, walk, k/9, k/bb etc etc etc etc.

 

hammer, that's my point, sorta. when he was doing half decent and before he was a yankee every yank fan thought he was the greatest thing in the world. now because of one bad 1/2 season he's going to be terrible for the rest of his career?

 

if that's the case carl pavano might be a rude awakening.

 

javy pre american leauge

2003 MON 34 34 13 12 0 4 1 230.2 198 93 83 28 57 241 3.24 1.11 .229

 

pavano pre american league

2004 FLA 31 31 18 8 0 2 2 222.1 212 80 74 16 49 139 3.00 1.17 .253

 

as you can see javy clearly has better numbers.. everything with the exception of ER's.. which can be affiliated with the marlins superior infield. pavano also had more wins, but that doesn't mean jack in my book.

 

john

 

John's got a point here. Javy Vazquez has had a better track record than Jaret Wright OR Carl Pavano, which just puts that much more emphasis on the fact that those 2 guys are far from guaranteed success stories. And with ANY pitcher playing in Montreal, W-L needs to be thrown out the window. (I actually believe that W-L means very little in general since it depends largely upon the team surrounding the pitcher, but especially in this case).

[Yanksin2010]

John's got a point here. Javy Vazquez has had a better track record than Jaret Wright OR Carl Pavano, which just puts that much more emphasis on the fact that those 2 guys are far from guaranteed success stories. And with ANY pitcher playing in Montreal, W-L needs to be thrown out the window. (I actually believe that W-L means very little in general since it depends largely upon the team surrounding the pitcher, but especially in this case).

Wright is a huge question mark, so is pavano. But they can't possibly have a worse second half than Javy. And if you're saying we should have kept javy, well look who we got back in return.

[elsrbueno]

Wright is a huge question mark, so is pavano. But they can't possibly have a worse second half than Javy. And if you're saying we should have kept javy, well look who we got back in return.

 

Javy for Randy is definately a good trade for the Yankees in 2005, but if Vazquez can bounce back from what was really only one bad half season, this is a move that may hurt the Yankees long term.

 

No doubt in my mind Randy Johnson will be a better pitcher in 2005 than Vazquez. That's not the point I was trying to make. My point was that Vazquez was a better pitcher than Wright or Pavano before coming to the American League..... so John's comment about you hating Pavano by year's end may not be too far off base.

[Yanksin2010]

Javy for Randy is definately a good trade for the Yankees in 2005, but if Vazquez can bounce back from what was really only one bad half season, this is a move that may hurt the Yankees long term.

 

No doubt in my mind Randy Johnson will be a better pitcher in 2005 than Vazquez. That's not the point I was trying to make. My point was that Vazquez was a better pitcher than Wright or Pavano before coming to the American League..... so John's comment about you hating Pavano by year's end may not be too far off base.

I probably will hate Wright because he'll probably go on the DL on his second start. But I doubt I'll hate pavano by the end of the season. He doesn't rely on strikeouts to get outs like javy did.

[elsrbueno]

I probably will hate Wright because he'll probably go on the DL on his second start. But I doubt I'll hate pavano by the end of the season. He doesn't rely on strikeouts to get outs like javy did.

 

But the fact that he isn't able to get strikeouts like Javy was is going to hurt him when he's got the Yankee defense behind him. It isn't even close to what he had last year in Florida.

[Yanksin2010]

But the fact that he isn't able to get strikeouts like Javy was is going to hurt him when he's got the Yankee defense behind him. It isn't even close to what he had last year in Florida.

Yankee infield isn't bad. The yankee outfield is dreadful.

[elsrbueno]

Yankee infield isn't bad. The yankee outfield is dreadful.

 

Which is going to mean more hits falling in, which is going to hurt Pavano's lofty 2004 numbers, which were by far his best season to date.

[Yanksin2010]

Which is going to mean more hits falling in, which is going to hurt Pavano's lofty 2004 numbers, which were by far his best season to date.

Yeah, well I'll take those over all the homers javy gave up.