Mets sign CF Carlos Beltran

[BoSox Rule]

You believe Beane's core of players are better than the Rangers core of players? The Angels? The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West, Haren hasn't pitched a whole lot, Meyer hasn't thrown a single big league pitch. That catching prospect they got was good, but what ever happened to Billy Beane's "steal" Jeremy Brown? They won't win the AL West for the next 3 years, the Angels will definaltly be on top of them.

 

The A's are an unbelievably deep team. I'd put money on them winning the next two years out West. The Rangers have no pitching.

[CrespoBlows]

how does moneyball not work? billy bean puts out a competitive team every single year. you don't have to make the playoffs ot be competitive. they are a good team that had a few key players choke. zito sucked all year, mulder totally slumped after the ASB.

 

john

 

Moneyball hasn't been able to go over the hump at all during the playoffs, if the A's had Dave Roberts, they wouldn't send him to steal. It's also why the Braves never won a lot even though they got to the playoffs. Waiting for a 3 HR doesn't work as well in the playoffs as it would in the regular season.

 

Also has anyone noticed that the A's can never beat the Red Sox or Yankees?

[BoSox Rule]

Don't forget about Rich Harden.

[CrespoBlows]

Honestly guys, how many of you would be satisfied if we had a A's type run? I would rather see my team win it all then finish one and done. That's all Beane has ever done, and that's all he'll ever do

[elsrbueno]

How quickly we get off topic...

 

I have argued in past threads that the "moneyball" theory doesn't work, because teams like the A's, Braves, and Red Sox (pre 2004) had never won it all.

 

Waiting for the 3-run homer works in the regular season, because you can beat crappy pitchers that way. However, if you're players don't know how to MANUFACTURE runs, you won't go deep into the playoffs. I still believe that.

 

Anyway, RE: Beltran

 

Omar Minaya is trying to steal the NY spotlight from the Yankees. He's gone out and signed the best position player on the market, and the best pitcher. He's accomplished that goal, but will the Mets win in 2005?

 

They'll have a decent rotation with Martinez, Glavine, Benson, Zambrano and Trachsel, and will have a solid offensive team with Piazza, Beltran, and company....

 

I think they've still got questions:

 

Will Kaz Matsui make a successful transition to second base?

Will David Wright/Jose Reyes be productive enough to carry the expectations on them?

Who's playing first base?

Will Piazza stay productive and healthy as the full time catcher?

 

I am psyched that the Yankees didn't get Beltran, and that he signed with the Mets so the Red Sox don't have to face him.... but I'm still not convinced the Mets will be contenders in 2005

[CrespoBlows]

"Moneyball" team to win it? Geez, besides the 2004 Red Sox, I can't think of any.

 

The Boston Red Sox are not a moneyball team, they may appear like it, but they sent 3 runners in one game in the ALCS and sent another 2 in game 5. Damon also attempted a bunt, Hell they even sent Ortiz. This is not a moneyball team.

[BoSox Rule]

The Boston Red Sox are not a moneyball team, they may appear like it, but they sent 3 runners in one game in the ALCS and sent another 2 in game 5. Damon also attempted a bunt, Hell they even sent Ortiz. This is not a moneyball team.

Moneyball is signing the undervalued, unwanted player.

[elsrbueno]

Moneyball is signing the undervalued, unwanted player.

 

There's more to it than that.

 

The moneyball theory, which has been attributed to Billy Beane, is developing offensive teams that work counts, take walks, etc. They value high OBP players and power hitters over speedsters/bunters. They build their offensive attack around getting runners on base, then getting them in by way of the "3-run homer."

 

Why do they call it "moneyball?" That I'm not positive because I haven't read the book, but based on what I HAVE heard/read, Billy (and a few other teams) believe that these types of players have been undervalued, and thus they can get these players for less money and still win baseball games.

[element1151]

Why do they call it "moneyball?" That I'm not positive because I haven't read the book, but based on what I HAVE heard/read, Billy (and a few other teams) believe that these types of players have been undervalued, and thus they can get these players for less money and still win baseball games.

 

And because the A's don't have a big budget so the need to not spend a lot on money on players.

[yeszir]

There is nothing I hate more than the entire moneyball craze. OPS has its merits, sure, and the whole Jamesian philosophy can work sometimes, but building a team solely around the moneyball philosphy is crap (just ask Billy Beane). Outs as precious commodities you must pretect at all costs makes no sense to me. We wouldn't have won anything last year had it not been for stolen bases, and I'd rather see Ortiz hacking away than trying to draw walks.

 

The sox aren't a moneyball team. They combine SOME aspects of SOME of the ideas present in the book and in Beane's head- but they make it work.

[CrespoBlows]

There is nothing I hate more than the entire moneyball craze. OPS has its merits, sure, and the whole Jamesian philosophy can work sometimes, but building a team solely around the moneyball philosphy is crap (just ask Billy Beane). Outs as precious commodities you must pretect at all costs makes no sense to me. We wouldn't have won anything last year had it not been for stolen bases, and I'd rather see Ortiz hacking away than trying to draw walks.

 

The sox aren't a moneyball team. They combine SOME aspects of SOME of the ideas present in the book and in Beane's head- but they make it work.

 

Good Post yezsir

 

Oh and for the Red Sox finding "low cost" players or unwanted players

 

Other than Millar and Mueller we haven't done to much of that.

 

Moneyball teams often don't have elite closers they prefer to sell the closers like stocks. The Red Sox went out and got Foulke at 9 million per.

 

Walks mean nothing if you can't score them, if Juan Pierre has a high OBP that would be a good thing cause he can score, but if your boy Billy Beane's players get on base, chances are they aren't going to give you a scare on the base paths

[BoSox Rule]

Other than Millar and Mueller we haven't done to much of that.

David Ortiz

Mark Bellhorn

Bill Mueller

Matt Mantei

Wade Miller

Kevin Millar

Bronson Arroyo

[ahhchon]

The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West.

QUOTE]

 

how much would you like to bet that the a's are not going to finish dead last in the al west?

 

john

[elsrbueno]

There is nothing I hate more than the entire moneyball craze. OPS has its merits, sure, and the whole Jamesian philosophy can work sometimes, but building a team solely around the moneyball philosphy is crap (just ask Billy Beane). Outs as precious commodities you must pretect at all costs makes no sense to me. We wouldn't have won anything last year had it not been for stolen bases, and I'd rather see Ortiz hacking away than trying to draw walks.

 

The sox aren't a moneyball team. They combine SOME aspects of SOME of the ideas present in the book and in Beane's head- but they make it work.

 

You hate the moneyball craze more than the Yankees?

 

Impressive.

 

I don't agree with it (obviously), but it's a good start. OBP is important because you need guys on base to score runs... but it doesn't work because if you can't move them over (either via sac bunt, stolen base, etc) when you need to it's sorta pointless.

 

Also, I don't think Beane would agree with you... since he still builds his team around the moneyball philosophy.

[CrespoBlows]

The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West.

QUOTE]

 

how much would you like to bet that the a's are not going to finish dead last in the al west?

 

john

 

Call it a friendly bet, 5-10$ sound good?

[CrespoBlows]

David Ortiz

Mark Bellhorn

Bill Mueller

Matt Mantei

Wade Miller

Kevin Millar

Bronson Arroyo

 

The way your pimping moneyball I'd expect superstars

 

Bellhorn is okay

Mueller I stated

Mantei hasn't done anything yet

Miller was a damn good pickup which I forget (why didn't your boy Billy Beane pick him up)

Millar I stated

Arroyo was a nice pickups as well

[BoSox Rule]

Bellhorn is okay

.264/.373/.444/.817 with 17 HR, 82 RBI, and 88 walks in okay? For $490,000.

[DOrtiz4prez]

There is a possibility of last place for them. Angels are great. Mariners now have a high-powered offense, Rangers are great, and A's have no pitching for this year not too mention any hitting. I think they will come in last.

[BoSox Rule]

A's have no pitching for this year not too mention any hitting. I think they will come in last.

The Angels have a terrible rotation, the Rangers have a terrible rotation, and the Seattle Mariners are an average team.

 

Zito

Harden

Blanton

Meyer

Haren is a good rotation.

 

Kendall, Durazo, Hatteberg, Chavez, Crosby, Swisher, Byrnes, Crosby, and Ellis makes a pretty good lineup.

 

I'm very confident they will win the West.

[soxonfox]

There is a possibility of last place for them. Angels are great. Mariners now have a high-powered offense, Rangers are great, and A's have no pitching for this year not too mention any hitting. I think they will come in last.

 

 

 

the mariners have 0 pitching and most of the team (with the exception of a few) is old. the'll come in last again.

 

1. A's

2. Angels

3. Rangers

4. Mariners

 

thats how it will turn out.

[CrespoBlows]

The Angels have a terrible rotation, the Rangers have a terrible rotation, and the Seattle Mariners are an average team.

 

Zito

Harden

Blanton

Meyer

Haren is a good rotation.

 

Kendall, Durazo, Hatteberg, Chavez, Crosby, Swisher, Byrnes, Crosby, and Ellis makes a pretty good lineup.

 

I'm very confident they will win the West.

 

Haren hasn't started a full season, Meyer hasn't pitched ONE big league pitch, Blanton is young, and Zito totally collapsed last year, that isn't a good rotation.

 

Hatterberg's 37, Crosby batted .244, Ellis? Swisher? You compare AAA baseball to MLB baseball. Curt Schilling is harder to hit then Felix Hernadez is

[CrespoBlows]

the mariners have 0 pitching and most of the team (with the exception of a few) is old. the'll come in last again.

 

1. A's

2. Angels

3. Rangers

4. Mariners

 

thats how it will turn out.

 

1. Angels

2. Rangers

3. Mariners

4. Sacramento A's

[Yanksin2010]

Why would the yankees want to spend 115 million on someone they don't even need. I'll take another year with bernie and then go and get torri hunter or pierre.

[ahhchon]

Call it a friendly bet, 5-10$ sound good?

 

i bet you 20 bucks that the A's will not come in dead last in the al west.

 

john

[sarasoxfan]

i thinkjohn is right...as much as it pains me to say it.

[Zenny]

BSR, not surprisingly, is the only one who is correct about Moneyball. It is about finding undervalued players on a short budget. It's not purely OBP. It's not purely leaving runners where they are and waiting for the 3-run homer. Sure, OBP is a big part of it because teams with guys on base more often are more likely to get a run in. Duh. It's not about sitting there with your bat up your ass hoping the pitcher is wild enough to walk you.

 

Also, OBP isn't just for hitters. Pitchers who throw strikes are also a key component because, again, the less hitters on base, the less likely the opposition is going to score. I don't understand why everyone hates Beane and his ideas so much. You try building a perennial contendor on $30 million bucks.

 

Oh yeah, Crespo, great strategy. Let's judge a draft two and a half years after it. You can't properly judge a draft until 25 years after the fact when all players have retired.

 

Also for your, "where does this leave Jeremy Brown?" question in regards to the A's acquiring Daric Barton. It's called depth. That's what makes teams strong. Then, they can later judge who's the better player and trade the other for what they need.

 

In regard to Dan Meyer, so these two innings never existed, huh: http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_gamebygamelog.jsp?playerID=434159&statType=2

 

The A's are winning a World Series within the next 5 years. That future rotation is just too good and too scary and all of those ridiculously good young hitters they have that play very good defense as well. Have fun crying yourself to sleep when Billy Beane makes you look like an *******.

[stevece80]

I'm willing to put down 100 dollars US on the A's not finishing in last. Anyone up? I've got a Paypal account that doesn't mind an easy 100.

[BoSox Rule]

BSR, not surprisingly, is the only one who is correct about Moneyball.

 

That brought tears to my eyes Zenny. KIND WORDS!

[Zenny]

That brought tears to my eyes Zenny. KIND WORDS!

Things I'm not known for.

 

Oh, and Seattle's finishing last in the division... AGAIN!

[CrespoBlows]

Oh yeah, Crespo, great strategy. Let's judge a draft two and a half years after it. You can't properly judge a draft until 25 years after the fact when all players have retired.

 

No, but you can tell on where the players are going.

 

The A's are winning a World Series within the next 5 years. That future rotation is just too good and too scary and all of those ridiculously good young hitters they have that play very good defense as well. Have fun crying yourself to sleep when Billy Beane makes you look like an *******.

 

Red Sox Fan? The A's haven't won anything even with the big 3, they won't win without them. They'll lose a lot of money this year with the fans staying away.