Base-stealing

[vaman61]

I am down here in Virginia so I can't see all the games. But I watch

what is televised nationally. This team has talent out the wazoo but

something has gone terribly wrong. I suspected the big April against

the Yankees was a fluke and it certainly appears to be. They don't

seem HUNGRY.

 

One things I am wondering - they aren't manufacturing runs, and do

they need to get a good base stealer? Damon is OK but why isn't Tito

getting faster guys on the team to steal bases? I know the Billy

James School says base stealing isn't worth it but there is an

intangible here: base stealing and good hit and runs show guts, and

guts percolate throughout the team psychologically. And I just don't

see that kind of guts on this team. They won't make it on the swings

of Ortiz and Manny. What do you think?

[YanksHater213]

right on. this is one of the slowest teams in the league. even when damon and pokey are on, they dont steal. it baffles me.

 

welcome to the site

[elsrbueno]

Right on.

 

Waiting for the three-run homer kills me sometimes. You don't have to look ANY further than last year to realize that manufacturing runs wins championships. Tampa Bay is proving now the return of speed to the top of the lineup with Crawford/Baldelli and their success.

 

There has to be a good mixture. Damon ideally is probably more of a #2 hitter, the Sox need a good leadoff guy who can get on base and STEAL, STEAL, STEAL. The team has enough thunder with Manny, Ortiz,Trot Nixon. How about this deal:

 

Nomar Garciaparra to Atlanta for Rafael Furcal

 

Atlanta keeps saying they aren't giving up on this season. Getting Nomar would be a good way to prove they arent giving up. Nomar played at GA Tech in college, so he likes that area. Atlanta likes it because they aren't committed to Nomar after this season.

 

Rafael Furcal stole a crap-load of bases in the minors before coming up to the major leagues. The Braves have WASTED his talent by waiting for Chipper, Andruw, etc to hit the 3-run HR. Another team without a lot of post-season success is stuck in the dust because they are unwiling to manufacture runs.

 

The Sox solve the Nomar dilema, and Furcal in the large-market of Boston can get the recognition he deserves for being a good defensive SS with a great arm, plus he's not too proud to change positions if it's best for the team.

[JMDurron]

Trading anyone for a base-stealer on this team would be rather stupid. We already have Damon, Pokey, and even Nomar who are speedy enough to steal bases. The team philosophy just does not seem to include base stealing. We're not going to steal, even if we trade for another fast runner. Therefore, why bother? Trade for someone with skills that we will actually use.

[YanksHater213]

Originally posted by JMDurron@Jun 30 2004, 10:40 AM

Trading anyone for a base-stealer on this team would be rather stupid. We already have Damon, Pokey, and even Nomar who are speedy enough to steal bases.

but do they steal???

[JMDurron]

Originally posted by YanksHater213+Jun 30 2004, 09:41 AM-->

QUOTE (YanksHater213 @ Jun 30 2004, 09:41 AM)

[vaman61]

No, they aren't stealing with the guys they have. On the other hand, it seems a lot of the games lately have been lopsided one way or the other, so stealing in those cases probably wouldn't have done anything. My point though is that there's electrical charge missing from the team's play right now, and some scapping for every possible run from the VERY FIRST INNING ON should get some zap back.

I don't know: this looks like the 70s all over again to me.

[elsrbueno]

Well then maybe the problem is Francona.

 

It was obvious to me that the Yankees stealing did just enough emotionally to Lowe to get him off his game and allow them to blow it wide open (that, and shotty D)

 

For cripes sake, steal a base! Sacrifice bunt! Do SOMETHING

[derekn]

I am new to this forum. I have been a Red Sox fan since 1978 when I was 10 years old. It's weird that my first year as a Sox fan, was the Bucky Dent year.

 

Anyways, as long as I have been following them, I have NEVER known them to play "small ball".

 

I forgot who said it on the HBO Documentary "Curse of the Bambino". I think it was Shaughnessy. He mentions the Green Monster and he talks about because of the wall, management/ownership values right handed sluggers. He then goes on to say that ONLY HALF of the games are played at home....

 

Do you remember in AL Championship series 2003, game 2, they tried to play small ball and failed miserably? (Kapler getting thrown out at 2nd base, with hitter striking out).

 

Every year we see the same formula, strand runners on base because the Sox keep trying to hit HRS or Extra bits to win the game....

 

I watched and marvelled at 2003 World Series, how 1 guy, Juan Pierre could mess up the Yankees entire rhythm and defense because he was a base stealer.

 

Thanks for listening...

[elsrbueno]

derek,

let me be the first to welcome you to the site! I hope you'll enjoy chatting (and complaining) with us.

 

I'm pretty new too (joined a couple weeks ago) and can't stay away!

 

I saw the documentary you speak of, and I thought that was VERY interesting (the comment about the team being built for Fenway). The other comment I thought was interesting in that documentary was the organization's lack of african american players, and how it hurt them. They turned down BOTH Jackie Robinson AND Willie Mays (two of the greatest players EVER).

 

The old-school mentality is probably a big reason why they just couldn't win back then, and now I think lack of small-ball is a big reason why they can't win today.

 

The Red Sox are being managed by a robot!

[vaman61]

derekn -

 

I'm with you. I have been a fan since the mid 70s. I have sufferred greatly. The searing experience of my life was 1978. I have been jittery ever since. I haven't seen a doctor about it but I get cranky often for no apparent reason and I blame that year. One wonders why I go on. Can't I do something else, like stamp collecting or tomato-growing? I know a lot o f folks dislike Grady but I will tell you he's looking pretty good to me now. I never thought firing him was the answer anyway, although there was an irresistable blood lust in the air after last year's disaster.

 

I'm new too. I've read the posts for weeks but decided to put my two centts worth in today.

[JMDurron]

Could someone please explain to me how it's Francona's fault that the Red Sox haven't tried to steal bases since the 1970s? If that recently? The team's built for Fenway. Fenway begs for RH power hitters. RH power hitters mean that you play for big innings and big hits, and don't squander outs. That means you don't steal. It's been a team philosophy for years, and people are trying to blame Francona for it? Can't we find a better, and less blatant, scapegoat?

[derekn]

I think 1] Playing Small ball is just one element for the Red Sox being able to win.

 

Other elements (feel free to disagree or agree):

 

2]Lefty SP - Remember 86? They had Hurst that year and they went to World Series...

 

Some possibilities:

(Estes, Wells even, Brewers have some cool lefties, Guardians have a lot of lefty pitching)

 

3]REAL 1st baseman. The first baseman is the leader of the infield. Next active position from pitcher to catcher is 1st base.

 

I would actually have them sign/trade for a 1st baseman that is more defensive minded than a hitter. A hitting first baseman would be a big plus. I read a rumour on http://sportsline.com/mlb that they have pursued signing Olerud (great 1st baseman in his prime years).

 

The Sox already have sluggers, they have a great outfield, they also have a great bullpen. If they play small ball, get a quality number 2 or 3 lefty pitcher, a solid 1st baseman then I feel they can compete for a World Series.

[elsrbueno]

Olerud is an interesting option. He is solid with the bat (no power, good contact) and good on D. The link you posted had him platooning with Millar...but I'd just as soon have him take Millar's spot in the everyday lineup permanently, with Millar sent to the bench. Give him more of a chance to be a cheerleader!

[derekn]

I am still trying to find the value in Millar especially since his option kicked in for 2005 after having a certain number of ABs.

 

I hate his Defense.... His bat is pretty good, but his Defense is a liability.

[noonanberg]

The Sox have enough speed, but they don't use it. I don't even know if I've seen many hit and runs. The key to scoring runs is getting guys in scoring position. Francona has got to start stealing and hitting and running more. Maybe if he would put Kapler in more than Millar...

[JMDurron]

The problem is, does anybody else remember how many times last year we got into strikeout-throwout double plays because Grady was willing to run a tad more on 3-2 counts? We can't have it both ways. We'll waste a whole lot of outs on the basepaths if we're serious about running more.

[derekn]

Good points about baserunning.. To play small ball, they have to have coaches who know how teach small ball and the skillset in players to play smallball... Right now, I don't think they have either. Damon is fast and so is Reese. Kapler is fast but he is not a smart runner. Everyone else in the lineup is SLOW...