5GoldGlovesOF,75

Harper hit .249 his last year in Washington, and isn't a Gold Glove outfielder. Mookie is getting paid...

Gammons from the winter meetings said Price can be moved if the Sox absorb 40% because someone will value him at about 18M per...

If he's not traded, the Red Sox have as good a chance as anyone else to sign him. There's no way one of the MLB's richest franchises in one of the biggest markets won't be able to afford him. According to Gammons yesterday (from the winter meetings), they want to make him the face of the franchise. They're going to move pieces to reset this year and pay him 400 million. Some fans will be outraged, some writers will cite data and claim it's imprudent, but that's the current/future market rate that he's earned.

In 2018, I actually enjoyed watching Price live in Baltimore shutting out a minor league offense, but he was horrible last season... at least watching him on TV was a horrible experience from an entertainment standpoint; Price is the perfect example of why modern baseball needs a pitch-clock (unless you're listening on a transistor radio trying to take a nap in a hammock or at the beach). Also, all you need to know about Price is he's the one guy Yankee fans that post on Red Sox forums keep insisting is untradeable -- because they're hoping he's not traded (and for the opposite reason, they'd much rather see Eovaldi traded).

I'd substitute Price and $25M for Nate -- if we're acquiring Matz, that's an all-lefty rotation. If the Sox really want to compete with the Yankees, we'll need a righty like Eovaldi who can get their righties out. On the trade site, I also had to take back Wilson and Ramos... and it said there was a "reasonable probability it would be accepted". Of course, Ramos makes $7M, so then we'd have Vazquez at his peak value to swap for maybe a controllable pitcher, and then sign a defensive back-up backstop (hey, like Sandy). At least we'd be rid of Price forever. I know people bemoan the Sale and Eovaldi contracts, but Price continues to be Dombrowski's signature albatross in Boston is so many ways...

One of the things the Sox did do, which may have soured Mookie over the years, was fight him early-on in arbitration. Ya, both sides always say they understand "it's a business", but you have to think young competitive athletes who have been praised all their lives have a hard time detecting any disrespect by an employer. Money may supersede feelings, but there's a reason a lot of teams strive to compromise with their stars and avoid arbitration hearings...

I'll bet Cora would take back Marisnick as part of a multi-player deal for JBJ...

Good call on this guy, moon -- you scooped Bradford... who wrote today: "A guy like Josh Lindbloom -- the 32-year-old pitcher who last performed in the majors in 2014 but has been rejuvenated in the Korean Baseball League -- would normally be an intriguing option for the Red Sox' rotation's final spot. But he will cost money, and that doesn't line up with the Sox' current world." Although I won't be surprised if the owners ultimately decide to pay the tax and go for it again. Especially, like Elk said in the other thread, if the tax itself is going to be reset in a few years...

The tax was a pseudo cap both sides begrudgingly agreed upon, and a point of contention that may lead to another work stoppage soon... which doesn't really explain why a lot more teams suddenly seem more willing to spend like drunken sailors (or posters). Is it preemptive, like in '94 when Duquette had deals in place for Sosa and Wettland? But what if it's because... they can all afford to splurge? Harper to Philly, Machado to San Diego, Corbin to Nats last year; the White Sox, Brewers, Braves, Nats again, already active this year. Rangers want Rendon. Maybe those of us are wrong to think the only cities that can actually afford Betts are the big 4 (Boston, NY, Chicago, LA). What would be less surprising this week: the Red Sox become players for a big name free agent or are mentioned in trade talks for a star whose original team "deems" too expensive to keep?

Over-Price(d)? Granted, three straight great outings in the October 2018 wiped out some previous brutal postseason starts... But if my quick division is correct, based on an average salary of $30 million per year, here is what Boston has paid for in the first four regular seasons of his current contract (based on regular season averages from baseball-ref): $49,019 dollars per batter faced; $204,081 dollars per inning pitched; $1.25 Million dollars per start; $2.5 Million dollars per win.

I'm ready for anything in the winter meetings, including major moves by Boston or slight tweaks by Boston. But there are some scenarios I view as highly unlikely: 1. I just can't see a new GM/Lord of Baseball Ops NOT making a sincere effort to make his team better in his first season at the helm. 2. I just can't see the old owners NOT agreeing to do whatever it takes to get their team back to contender status, and that includes hanging with the big boys. 3. I just can't see the Sox trading Mookie Betts for anybodies that won't improve the team -- for the coming year and the future.... so that means either a deal that nets a haul of MLB-ready prospects or established All-Star-caliber talent -- in other words, an overpay from one club that's going all in for one year. 4. I agree the latter is unlikely, but absolutely, positively cannot see Bloom, Henry et. all, swapping Betts for any warm body -- just a notch beyond a draft pick -- or using him as the salary-dumped guy to get below a tax number (So... apologies to reset fans, but no apology to Yankee fans pretending to offer constructive rebuild advice who are secretly hoping and praying their arch rivals will make the worst decision since Babe Ruth and jettison their best all-around homegrown superstar about-to-enter-his-prime future Hall of Famer in half a century). IF there is a blockbuster, I predict it may include another starting position player and even a "star", along with a high-priced pitcher -- but the return, along with someone else's salary dump, will bring legitimate talent back. Because 2020 will not be a bridge year, since the Nation will not accept that.

You know I have to say this: but never for Boston. And Mark McGwire isn't here to talk about the past...

One proved he can beat NY in Yankee Stadium in both the regular season and postseason -- the other can't do either, continues to embarrass the franchise by making public comments that are terrible for business, is four years older and makes almost twice as much money...

Meanwhile, the experts are killing me with their speculations. Harold Reynolds on MLB said the Betts' case is simple: offer him $400 million, and if he refuses, trade him. Then there's the ESPN guys who proposed the Mookie to White Sox or Reds; if you keep reading, they also proposed Kris Bryant to the Braves for... wait for it, PACHE (good thing they didn't post that here). They even say that kind of deal may have to be expanded -- if the Cubs want young Braves' arms or Tyler Flowers -- to include Schwarber, Contreras and Almora. Don't worry, I went to the trade site, and with all four Cubs for just Pache it said Major Overpay. But both the article and the site cite that it may work because of the teams' needs. At least I feel more validated that that consideration is considered.

In that SD scenario, if we don't have to add dollars, would that be enough to get under the not-a-mandate? Even if it's borderline, we'd then still have to slash cash to be able to stockpile arms. JBJ's 11 mil could ideally be split for two 5.5 mil pitchers... Since a lot of teams have already made moves -- signings, trades, offers -- while the Sox have not yet, I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom is preparing a series of cause-and-effect if-thens ready to drop like dominoes at this week's meetings...

But that's how this offseason feels to me... the Quicksilver live version on Happy Trails is a whole album side

"I walked forty-seven miles of barbed wire Got a cobra snake for a necktie I got a brand new house by the road side Made out of rattlesnake hide" - Quicksilver Messenger Service

I get it and I'm spoiled. But not from the rings, which any old baseball fan in any city who dedicates decades to his team deserves... I just can't stomach the idea of the Sox ever acknowledging they're not going to try to contend. I've also been around long enough, as have many regulars here, to know that we can never predict a season based directly on the last one -- and I also know a lot of Yankee fans who totally agree.

Talk about weak: "the Reds have nine outfielders on their 40-man roster. But add them all up and you don't have one Mookie Betts." "He wouldn't fill Betts' shoes by any stretch" (seriously, these are the types of quotes most Boston fans keep saying, but I'm glad when writers proposing to trade him show the futility of it all). If Bloom just read them, he's now convinced. Ship him out!

I expect NY to be massive favorites, but I'm far from ready to concede the campaign based on one Red Sox season that lacked luster. Even after making some expected personnel changes, Boston will still bring back the majority of a roster that recently won and knows how to win the World Series. By my count, the Yankees have two: Gardner and Chapman. I expect improved performances from players with youth on their side, like Benintendi, 25, and D. Hernandez, 23. I'm also optimistic about Eovaldi's potential, based on how hard he was throwing at the end of the year. A lot of posters are down on him right now, but I looked back at the thread when Boston signed him last winter and almost everyone here was positive about getting him back. He was the one free agent I really wanted locked up, a guy with Cy Young stuff on display the entire postseason. I still hope to see a full year out of Eovaldi in a Sox uni, and hope he's not traded. In today's market for good starting pitchers, he's not overpaid at 17 million, and I'd like to see him get a chance to earn it. Put it this way, I like the chances of Nate bouncing back as much as Severino, who's lost key playoff starts three years in a row and has never made it past four innings in 6 of 8 postseason starts.

"The sox would need to hope for another year of unprecedented bad luck for the Yanks and a year of ridiculous luck for the sox to overtake us" I think you may have reversed some of the teams in this sentence. The Yanks had unprecedented good luck last year finding has-beens (Maybin, 32) and never-weres (Tauchman 28, Urshela 27, Ford 26, German 26) to replace and virtually outperform injured regulars. After watching the '18 postseason, some might say Boston had ridiculous bad luck with injuries and down-years from 80% of its championship rotation. You might counter argue that NY made its own luck because Cashman is a better GM than Dombrowski... but nobody was saying that a year ago. Instead, Red Sox detractors relied on the ole "Everything went right in '18" warning (which looked prophetic when key acquisitions and postseason heroes Pearce and Eovaldi both broke down early in '19). As great as the Yankees' season was in '19, they are a team in flux and under pressure to win. There are issues on defense, and the rotation is a year older. The Yanks can sign Cole and Rendon, and Stanton can hit 50 HRs, but it's far from automatic they'll win 103 games again. The only time NY ever won more in the past half century was in the all-time '98 season.

When the '18 postseason began, despite their great regular season, it seemed no one but Sox fans believed they'd finish the deal. The Astros were favored in the ALCS, and a lot of experts were surprised when the Sox beat Verlander and Cole, and knocked around Morton. It's not a dream to think that the same Boston core, if kept intact or even modified, couldn't do it again. Or to think that injuries, off-years and sophomore/junior/senior jinxes can't and won't afflict other favorites.

Ken, '13 was the perfect storm preparation for the perfect storm -- so rare that that many vets got on the same mission with something to prove the same year (plus, there was the common community bond). But vets with something to prove and/or a unit's last hurrah are what gives 2020 hope in this offseason. This roster has areas in need of improvement -- what club doesn't -- but any franchise would love to have our current core of talent. The Bosox -- and most teams -- are never as good the year after putting it all together and going all the way; that's why no champ has repeated this century. In '76, the defending AL champs with all those young stars and established pitchers added HOFer Fergie Jenkins... and finished third, winning one less game than last year's Red Flops. When Boston wins rings, it's usually when no one expects them to.

Thanks for elaborating, notin and moon. The only thing I can say about those guys who do this for a living: a lot of them are privy to insider info that never gets divulged to the posters. So even though some of their trade proposals are just like ours -- throwing half-cooked pasta against a wall -- we also have to consider there are some facts behind their rumors. No matter what one thinks of Shaughnessy, when he says he's sensing a "bridge year" -- like he did today -- we need to take heed (and hope not). He's the guy, after all, who predicted Dombro was a goner, a month before the axe fell...

I just don't see how players who've never played in the majors can be projected to have so much more value than players who have made the bigs and are already accomplished. I get that the number of years a player is controlled is important, but not if he becomes a bust. At least we know guys like Acuna and Soto have done it at the MLB level, but does anyone really think Acuna is worth Betts, Benintendi, Bradley and Bogaerts? The site accepted that deal, but said it was a minor overpay... I accept that the site is useful as one guide, but there are a lot of other facets involved in trades (and not just the behind-the-scenes, sometimes ugly, truths fans never need to know). The most obvious that drive deals: what are a team's current needs (and yes, some of those may be short-term, and others long-term)? Those are factors a lot of fans also enjoy discussing and arguing over the hot stove.