5GoldGlovesOF,75

Even wins and losses? This brings up a question in regards to Thunder's post about playing for sheer enjoyment: why even keep score? We all know the likely answer is "competition", but I think back to two levels: T-ball (glad that's over) and high school. In T-ball the coaches don't keep score, just track of when their entire batting orders hit so they know when it's the other team's turn to swing. But despite the chaos -- batters sprinting home to third, fielders playing in the infield dirt, watching airplanes, running away from "bees" -- you can be sure that some kids definitely keep score; that stat surely matters to some. Actually, our town's Little League doesn't even keep track of scores in minor league games (ages 8-10) -- with no standings or playoffs. But almost all players know which side scores the most runs in every game. In high school, I remember lopsided games when managers and coaches often had to choose to respect or disregard the game's unwritten rules. Any guys with a huge lead who were still stealing bases, especially third, were poor sports, while baserunners who refused to score on continual wild pitches were classy (bad clubs run out of pitchers who can throw strikes quickly). Of course, any team getting its ass kicked could do whatever it could to try to get back in the game. No one wants to surrender, but... it'd be interesting to research when leagues and levels invented the Mercy Rule. It was certainly before spring soccer or lacrosse became popular and started to dilute the talent and lead to more disparity.

Ah, but how to stop those wily bench coaches from intercepting pitch signals from the opposite dugout to catchers... not to mention the defense stealing offensive signs from base coaches to batters and base runners. That could prevent pitches intentionally aimed at bunters' noggins. plus save a lot of time avoiding pitch-outs and pick-off attempts when clubs are guarding against runners from -- you know -- stealing bases. I can't believe there is still so much crime in this sport. It's almost as if it's been an accepted part of the game since the beginning of time.

Whoa -- I can envision baseball without fans, but not baseball without players, coaches, managers, gms, and analytics departments.

After reading Manfred's entire report, I thought I found the smoking gun: Watkins, the Sox guy in charge of video sign decoding before and after games, was also in charge of monitoring in-game video (ya, contradictory MLB). Then I read this: "the employee responsible for decoding an opponent’s signs prior to and following the game—also was the person stationed in the replay room during the game to advise the Manager on whether to challenge a play on the field. (It was not uncommon for those two roles to be combined in this manner by Clubs in 2018)." For anyone -- even Yankee fans and scribes still bitter that their codebreakers weren't as good as teams they couldn't beat -- it's now obvious what Manfred is saying between the lines: "Everybody's doing a brand-new dance, now (Come on baby, do the loco-motion)!"

A lot of things conspired against the Sox in '19. The MLB didn't make it easy on them from the start -- sending Boston on an 13-game West coast road trip to open the season (including an overkill stop in Arizona for two more meaningless ST exhibitions with the Cubs). Not playing a single home game for basically the first two weeks of the year, after two months away from home, doesn't lend itself to much momentum. Meanwhile, the Yankees got to play their first nine against the two worst teams in the majors, the O's and Tigers. Coincidence? You think the schedule makers in NY liked cocky Cora telling them to "Suck on it" at the parade? You don't read quotes from players complaining about such contrasts, but fans on a forum? You bet.

Red Sox fans and especially Yankee fans should take the hint from the MLB: this is all in the past, nothing here to see now, forge ahead... The last thing Manfred wants is to have to investigate another team -- especially one in another major market that hired the same named perpetrator immediately before and after he worked for Houston -- for the same types of infractions that everyone in the game knows have been going on all over baseball for at least half a decade. Houston took the fall only because an ex-Astro complained to reporters, who wrote a national story that finally forced the MLB's hand. Ironically, fans on social media used similar video as analytics departments to post proof that Manfred could no longer ignore. Boston won't be tainted, and neither will baseball. The era will just be remembered as a time when technology overlapped with tradition. Don't worry: something new and scandalous will soon emerge, as players, teams and trainers will always look to get an edge... I heard progressive clubs are already scouring parents' basements for mad computer scientists who can override the calls of robot umpires.

The Astros' players threw Cora and Beltran under the bus because both were no longer working for Houston. The Astros' analytics department created a culture of illegal systems before Cora or Beltran worked for Houston, but the pair and entire club implemented and benefitted from Codebreaker. Nobody in the Houston organization was innocent, but Cora and Beltran were definitely the main fall guys --- which was obvious with the MLB report conveniently calling them masterminds (of banging trash cans). Some readers immediately believed the report because it was official. There are no reports that Cora or Beltran or Hinch or the players didn't break the rules voluntarily, but how feasible is it that any new employee refuses to utilize stratagems distributed to him by his superiors, and still keeps his job?

I was going to revise my post, but didn't want to break the rules, in-thread. But the report said some players interviewed "suspected or had indications that Watkins may have revised" some video-decoded signs that were ok to decode by video before games during games. Of course, he denies everything. See how concrete and egregious such transgressions can be in a unique sport originated in strategies based on the term "stealing"? Glad to see that not one poster has used the c-word today. Hey, at least we got baseball news to blab about instead of politics!

Raise your hand if you think Watkins was the only one in MLB analytics departments to look closely at video during games (in any year since monitors were installed in video replay rooms in 2014). Manfred didn't raise his, either. MLB's report basically said it was ok that a Sox' replay operator supplied decoded signs from video to players before games. But apparently he was so diligent that once in awhile he noticed during games that opponents had changed their signs... and, well, on “some occasions" he used his scrutiny skills "to revise sign sequence information that he had permissibly provided to players prior to the game”. The lesson? No more revisions! First drafts for everyone, pass/fail. Alex Cora -- who got more rancor this winter than our Covid thread from some on this forum -- will be back managing in Boston. I said it a few days after Shaugnessey, Tomase and Pete A., among others, were calling for his head. Bloom may not like it, but Bloom's bosses love AC.

Right? We were kinda exceeding "the guidelines" before the feds created the guidelines. Even during our protests (of each other's opinions), we're still model Americans, sitting far, far apart...

The whole idea of an athlete (or entertainer or anyone not developing a vaccine) getting an offer and signing a contract for hundreds of millions of dollars in a heightened time of worldwide unemployment, hunger and constant fear of becoming infected with a contagious, incurable disease is hard to fathom right now... for me, at least. I can't call it distasteful, but it just doesn't make any sense any more. Can the concept of business-as-usual even exist? Many of us are already accepting the unusual as the new usual...

I didn't leap, I said way back in Post #21 I'd take Jeter over ARod. I can't stand either one; I'm a Red Sox fan. And the only thing clutch on that aggravating non-interference call on Jeter's fly ball vs. Baltimore was the ump blowing the play -- that was a clutch non-call for the Yankees. Dewey warned me, but I didn't think anyone would argue that performances don't matter more in the postseason than the regular season. For some reason though, there are never polls where fans pick favorite lineups of players on teams eliminated from the playoffs to see who is best at padding their stats in garbage time. Do any college basketball fans think the NCAA tournament should stop being called March Madness and just be March Mundaneness?

The thing is, not with the season on the line. I don't know if there are proportionate stats that reflect this, but in the postseason you're facing the very best competition in baseball in each year; and since most title teams are led by top pitching and defense, as a batter you're usually hitting against the toughest combination of arms, legs and hands in the league. Postseason ARod: .259 .365/.457/.822. Postseason Jetes: .308 .374/.465/.838. Pretty close, though #2 actually has a edge in all categories. But perhaps the most telling stat -- the one that speaks to your valid context as most fresh in our minds as fans -- are the plate appearances: ARod 330, Jeter 734. In over twice as many times up when it mattered most, Jeter was better.

I see where you're going... again, at least at the amateur sports level (and I would imagine the pros), I know there are guys who don't want the ball in certain moments; in baseball, they don't want to be on the mound, in the batter's box, or don't want the ball hit to them. Most would never admit it, but I've heard some say it (I may have once in awhile, too, only half-joking). But back to the majors: if you asked a million Yankee fans if they'd take Jeter or ARod in a clutch moment, how many do you honestly think would pick Alex? I know a lot of Yankee fans, and for them, the answer would be not one.

Fair point. I should've said most the players I know (literally half a century of teams, so far). And I can appreciate the stance that, for the most part, this discussion is really about good players or guys that are already considered among the best by their peers. The question exists: why do some good players perform better than others in certain situations? Matt Barnes throws 100 miles per hour, and has significant value as a proven MLB reliever. But why don't we trust him in the 9th inning? As for analytics, I consider myself someone with experience both as a player and as a fan who analyzes stats. I don't consider myself great at either, however; I like WAR, especially when comparing players and teams from different seasons and eras. But I also don't swear by WAR; it is just one more tool to use, but has made fandom more interesting (even if I could never calculate it). I'm still old school enough to claim that pitching wins can still count as much as ERA, because I've listened to old-timers (my step-father was a pro catcher) and I've played behind aces who lay them in there with a big lead, and buckle down in a one-run game.

Sorry, but I disagree with your opinion. All I can say is I agree if you watch the game and study the game, there are probably many ways to look at this supposedly mythical term that somehow became accepted jargon in all competitive sports at all levels for over a century. But if you play the game, you'd know there is not even a debate. You can still tell all the players they're wrong, and even show them data to prove they're wrong, but you'll never change their minds... ... or those of a large percentage of fans. Ask Red Sox fans how confident they were after Game One of the 2018 ALCS when Cora announced -- with the Sox down 0-1 -- that he'd be starting David Price, the highest paid pitcher in history, in Game Two. Price had just been crushed in the ALDS vs NY, and was still winless in career playoff starts (btw, he gave up 4 earned and didn't last 5 IP, but Boston prevailed). Then also ask fans how much more confidence they had in Eovaldi starting GM 3 in Houston; especially after he was lights out in Yankee Stadium the previous week. To Price's credit, he then made adjustments and had the best 11 days of his Red Sox career. Many articles about Price used words and phrases like "relief" and "monkey off his back"... were all these professional writers and observers really talking about a monkey that doesn't exist?

I became aware of Kaline about the same time as you, when I started collecting baseball cards as a kid in '68. What I remember is looking at Everyready batteries and wondering if they were endorsed by the Tiger (they were all printed with the word "alkaline")... then, when I realized it might be a coincidence, I wondered why Everyready didn't recruit Kaline as a spokesman?

Like I tried to say in my first post of the day... You don't have to have played competitive team sports lately, just take a look at game threads from the past few decades (from fans of any team). Not even stat geeks -- of which I include myself -- can deny that there are certain batters or pitchers that most of us would rather see up there, out there or in there in a tight spot... and they're not always the most popular players with the best numbers. Maybe a few examples: on the 2013 Sox, Nava hit .300 and Salty had an .800+ OPS as the regular leftfielder and catcher, but Gomes .240 and Ross .216 were in there more during crunch-time in the postseason; also, Jim Leyritz will always be a legend in NY for his "timely" home runs.

Dewey says it better than me. I was ready to just quote the Supreme Court (in recognition of porn)... but it definitely goes beyond stats -- even though I love that Pat Tabler baseball card. For Reggie, it was more consensus than just his Mr. October nickname; MLB writers twice voted him World Series MVP, once for Oakland, once for NY, plus he blew out his leg stealing home with the pennant-winning run that sent the A's to their first WS. I can't stand the guy, but he played on 11 first-place teams. He stepped up, even in something seemingly inconsequential as the 1971 All-Star game, with his 600-foot asterisk pinch home run in Detroit (it hit the light pole on the roof or it's still going). Btw, Frank Robinson was named MVP, because his "clutch" HR put the AL ahead, but Jackson turned that game around. And you can bet it mattered to the guys in the dugout, since it was the only ASG the AL won in a 20-year span; ya, the NL had a nice 19-1 run from '63 through '82.

That is good news, and great steps toward a recovery. As for the next free agency class, I just don't think the MLB biz will recover from whatever season is played, if any, to go back to the way things were. Kajillion dollar long-term sports contracts could soon join wedding receptions in banquet halls and cruise vacations in the ranks of nostalgia... ... especially, with no definitive treatments nor vaccine threatening the 2021 season. Hate to say it, but the timetables that scientists and medical experts are citing right now put next year in doubt -- when we should all be prepared for more partial openings and intermittent shutdowns in sports seasons, school years, etc. etc.

I actually never disliked him for steroids, only because he was better than the thousands or who knows how many others that also did them. But yelling "I got it" on a pop-up while running the bases, or slapping the ball out of Bronson's glove -- stunts like that would get you drilled at any level, from high school on up. If I had to pick my top team to win one game, ARod wouldn't make it, based solely on performance in most of the games he played in that mattered most. Other guys that Red Sox fans (and LA, KC etc) love to hate -- like Reggie Jackson and Pete Rose -- would be in my line-up. Rose had a higher batting average and OPS in 14 postseason series than he did in his regular-season career. And he wasn't just lucky to be on many teams with great pitching, like Reg. It exists.

For the sake of contributing to a thread, and not necessarily sparking an argument, I'd like to weigh in on 4. For those who have played the game most of our lives, and not just on a professional level, we all know there are certain guys who for some reason are more effective, more reliable performers than the rest of us "in the clutch". Now, the definition of clutch is obviously debatable, and I'm sure there are stats that number-crunchers can offer (such as "late, pressure" categories). But the whole concept is also subjective -- to me, my favorite clutch David Ortiz moment came in the first inning, when he homered to give Boston a lead in Game Seven of the '04 LCS; it was right after Johnny Damon was gunned out at the plate, and it instantly silenced a blood-thirsty Yankee Stadium crowd in a pennant-clincher. The Sox never trailed. Considering current politics, I hate to use the phrase "game-changer"... but guys on the bench all know a guy on every team. It's usually the best player who gets the best rep -- but not always -- and that's where the qualitative data supersedes the quantitative. George Brett was better than ARod; anyone who watched the postseasons in the 1970s and 80s could tell you that. Brett's manager never batted him eighth in a playoff lineup in a season when he was the reigning MVP.

Well thought-out, and probably the only hope. But I'd guess the players, union, etc. would only go for this under a one-time tournament-type situation, like a WBC or Olympics (which may work better for TV anyway). Longterm wouldn't work, because of both physical and mental health issues. The first thing I thought of under this scenario is the first thing I imagined the players thinking: "wait -- no wives, girlfriends or groupies???"

These two states obviously make the most sense from a baseball standpoint... but unfortunately, not in a realistic sense. Hate to bring politics into this... but FLA and AZ are two of the few places in the world whose leaders haven't ordered statewide shut-down mitigation... despite what scientists all over the universe are convinced is our only chance right now. I'm not going to get into the logic and logistics about staying open for business where thousands of elderly retired Americans (those most susceptible to succumbing to the virus) go to live out their lives.

Actually, the Blue Jays' domed stadium with built-in hotel may be one of the perfect neutral sites to quarantine teams and then host mini-series exclusively for TV. Transportation would be a concern, though; we can't have 50 guys from all over North America driving to Canada in separate SUVs.