5GoldGlovesOF,75

Why not? Sox are already decimated, kicking them while they're down won't alter the current MLB landscape. Plus, it will be fun watching Price defend his old mates to his new mates... and listening to Mookie quote Pedey: "It's not me, it's them." Just -- whatever you do -- don't investigate the Beltran pinstripe trail from the Bronx and back to the Bronx. https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/steve-mcqueen-and-dustin-hoffman-in-a-scene-of-the-film-news-photo/141561501

The Dodgers' bitching and moaning could work in Boston's favor: do you think Manfred may go easier on the Sox to prevent further backlash from within the shiny new LA ranks? Imagine the delicious dissension if Betts and Price are branded as outlaws in the same clubhouse with their victims? Call it hype if you want, but the MLB has taken such a hit in the public eye and among other pro sports lately that the last thing it needs is further uproar from The Great Blue Hope.

Totally agree -- and Bellinger isn't doing himself any favors to remain top dawg by constantly whining about the Astros, either. Correa and his mates should take the heat at this point, but I agree with him that Bellinger should stfu about the '17 WS (when Cody hit .143 with 17 Ks in 7 games).

This has always been my feeling about Mookie insisting on going to free agency: some place closer to home, some place warmer, some place not Boston... Maybe I've been myopic, but to me, Betts was one of the rare baseball stars beloved by a fanatical fanbase of a large market franchise dedicated to winning who never publicly expressed a goal to remain with his original club forever. Unlike Lester, Bogaerts, Sale... even Lindor has been saying lately he wants to stay in Cleveland. Didn't Lowell take less to re-sign than go to Philly? These guys aren't all just mercenaries. Competitive athletes want to win, and once they're set for life monetarily they start craving intrinsic rewards like Manfred's piece of metal. If Mookie sees like-minded compadres like JBJ and JD jettisoned in favor of a rebuild, that may be another factor in his decision. Look at Arenado now; a year after hitting the jackpot he's hungry and having second thoughts about staying in Colorado. As far as signing with a team for one dollar more -- if a guy prefers one place or another, I'd think the runner-up would have to exceed the best offer by enough to make him change his mind. In other words, if he likes LA better and it offers 420, Boston may have to go to 450... but these are all hypotheticals (hypatheticals) since we already know the Sox don't deem Mookie at the very top of industry market value. Yet.

Right on -- and if he's really good, an ace can throw a demoralized order into a funk for days, even inducing the start of some batting slumps.

That was a long-ass reply which should've just read, "I'm fairly certain that in a year from now, Mookie's asking price will be higher than ever..." (which should be all we need to know about the chances of Boston re-signing him... except that it's fickle, mercurial Boston)

We really don't know the actual numbers in the Sox' offers to Mookie or even if there were negotiations; most reports suggest there weren't any -- the only number ever attributed to Betts' camp was $420M, their price required to buy out his free agency. All we can do is speculate... but let's even say Boston caved in the past year and agreed to meet his asking AAV of $35M or even exceed it to $36M (say, 10 for $360) -- Whatever it was (if it was), Mookie still didn't sign. Instead they traded his butt out of Boston. Now envision the Sox tank and trade all his buds like JBJ and JD and look like a non-contender for the next few rebuilding years. Meanwhile, Betts has another MVP-type year and goes far in the postseason on a team that has already finished first the last seven seasons without him. Both of these scenarios are certainly possibilities. If the latter occurs, Mookie's asking price a year from now very well could be around half a billion dollars. It will definitely be higher than it was the last time the Sox talked to him. He may not get his asking price, but some team may deem his value -- at the then-current top of the market price -- at a higher number than what he once wanted from Henry to stay in Boston. And if the Red Sox really want him back, they may have no choice but to pay a premium above say, one single dollar more than his highest other offer.

The advantage of having an ace that may be underrated in fandom is how it's perceived by his teammates. Having a stud strut to the mound every five days -- a guy you know is going to overmatch opponents -- sets the tone of the season and gives a club confidence that can't be measured. He doesn't have to win 20 games or K 300 batters, but his influence can infuse simultaneous energy and ease on the defense and offense, not to mention take the pressure off the rotation and provide rest for the bullpen. The right horse can be a huge factor -- and that exactly what the Yankees are hoping from Cole this year.

A big argument here all winter was which of the performances (and luck, good and bad) of 2018 or 2019 were most reasonable to repeat -- or more likely approximate -- in 2020. In order to find out, the Red Sox had to keep Betts and Price... 2020 didn't have to be a bridge because a bounce-back to postseason contender was a possibility. Now here we are. In my opinion, it would've been worth it -- and a hell of a lot more fun -- to watch Mookie in his salary drive season leading the Sox back to contention. And that includes if he still left next winter, because 2021 would have always been up in the air, with probable losses of Betts, JD and Bradley. To those who were so pessimistic about this year even with Betts, but are optimistic about '21 because of our new salary flexibility, I ask this: who exactly is Bloom going to acquire in the next 12 months that will make that much difference? The best free agent starting pitchers are Stroman and Bauer -- inconsistent and/or unstable. As for trades, who is going to give up even a mid-rotation arm for JD or JBJ? Certainly, we aren't about to start swapping actual prospects, not now when Bloom is just beginning to hoard them? I'm not saying deals in the next year won't set the Red Sox in the right direction... but I think that '21 was going to suck no matter what. Now we're staring at 2020 and 2021...

Thanks for the lists, Moon. Rick Burleson was a top shortstop in a time before all-around studs spotlighted the position. He was a three-time All-Star, won a Gold Glove, and received MVP votes four times. His first year in California he won the Silver Slugger with a .729 OPS (it was about a decade before the steroid era). Burleson was arguably Boston's best defensive shortstop in the 30 years before Alex Gonzalez played there in '06. Reggie Smith might be the closest comp to Betts. Smith was 28 when the Red Sox traded him, after seven full seasons of .829 OPS, and 34.5 b-WAR (4.9 average) in an era when pitching dominated. He had been a two-time AS, GG outfielder, and received MVP votes in four straight seasons. Smith went to the NL, where he played nine more years with an .889 OPS and produced another 30.4 WAR. Two differences in the Smith trade (besides the fact it was just before free agency): 1). the Sox had some really good young outfielders, like Evans, with Rice and Lynn almost ready; 2). Boston made sure it got an All-Star pitcher back in Rick Wise (who would lead the '75 AL pennant winners in victories).

Sometimes. Javy Lopez and AJ Piersynski were one-time All-Stars with rings who were just brutal in Boston. But going back half a century, Elston Howard -- another negative WAR veteran backstop in Beantown -- was never viewed that way. I was too young then, but do remember watching Lopez and thinking him the worst Red Sox catcher I ever saw (and uncharacteristic of Epstein, a GM who placed great emphasis on defense, getting backups like Pokey Reese and Mientkiewicz). But Lopez caught three Hall of Famers and won many titles in Atlanta; catchers just break down over the years, up and down, foul tips, guarding the plate, wearing the gear etc.

If Mookie has a great year and the Sox have a crap year -- and the latter is reflected in fan support at the gate and on the tube -- Boston would have to pay more than Betts' camp ever asked before to bring him back. It may actually even be worth it to the brand, but they'd never admit that... so he's gone for good. Now, what pitchers will be available by July for our (hallelujah) flexible payroll to invest in? I think guys from teams having disappointing years might be better bargains than young break-out arms from predicted non-contenders. Possible sellers: Cleveland, Cincinnati... Houston.

You need an ace to compete and contend. Trading Sale would further diminish the Sox chances at either. Prospects are just prospects. Players on Hall of Fame paths like Betts and Sale are the cornerstones contenders are built around. If the Red Sox trade their ace, they'll just be searching, and if history shows -- overspending -- trying to replace him with someone else. Just like they're probably going to with Mookie...

Maybe someone dropped some names or contradicted another witness. Either way, it's not good; there are players who've been released, not re-signed or (gulp) traded, plus ex-employees who fled Dombro's autocracy -- unless Manfred is hopefully just dragging it out to make it look like he's devoting as much time digging into the Sox as he did on the Astros. But I doubt it.

That's easy -- his "attention to details"! A better question may be: why isn't Manfred asking those questions? I'd repeat my thoughts, but I'm just a high comedian on this forum (even though I don't even eat gummies)...

I never wanted Price, but I was all in on Eovaldi and still expect him to be an All-Star someday. I know, he'd have to pitch an entire half-season without injury -- this year would be a really good time for that... I'm still optimistic -- it's Spring Training, when every team has dreams. But if the Sox tank, can we trust Bloom to at least rush a few prospects up to the show in the second-half -- to give them and us exposure to the future? That's the fun of a fan of an also-ran...

My opinions -- that means no basis of facts, just what I have been sensing: 1). a reset in '20 was necessary for '21 and beyond (but I wish they could've traded anyone else but Betts to get there). 2). there wasn't any other way to get rid of even half of Price's contract but to include Betts in the deal 3). the best possible way to re-sign Mookie would've been to keep him -- and keep negotiating -- straight through free agency 4). someone in the Sox organization has first- or second-hand knowledge that Mookie was set on leaving Boston via free agency 5). the Sox had a good chance at a rebound season in '20 -- riding Betts' salary drive -- and as a fan I am very disappointed I won't get a chance to watch that 6). a). in the best interests of optimism, '20 could still be good... but . on the side of realism, '20 could quickly turn into a debacle (or just a continuation of the offseason havoc) 7). if 6b. occurs, more veterans will be traded, the Sox will be unrecognizable, and the rebuild back to contention will take more time than fans here think... 8). ...because "worsts to firsts" are rare MLB events -- but 4ths to 2nds not so much, which makes staying somewhat competitive more important for our entertainment purposes. 9). it will interesting to see how much of the savings from not signing Betts are spread out and invested in "sustained long-term success" over the next decade -- or if the Sox just wind up blowing the whole $300 to $400 million on cumulative, inferior players in the next two or three years.

...or front offices pretending a pitcher who just threw is hurt (when he only needs extra rest), just so they can bring in a fresh arm...

"Maybe this is why Crane's press conference was able to so intransigent. In his mind, he didn't think he had to admit any particular guilt--at least none for himself (the big boss). And why he was ready to just move on." This is why nobody really seems sorry for what they did: because secret codes and breaking codes have always been part of the game -- and video, which the MLB hypocritically/hysterically provided both access to and forbidden usage of -- created new and better ways. Every analytics department breaks down video, looking for any and every advantage possible. The Astros won with blatant tactics, which makes them obvious targets of scorn and scrutiny. The Wall Street Journal article cites Houston's front office for creating its systems before Cora even worked there. As smart as he is, Cora wasn't any mastermind, but an employee who may have simply agreed to implement the company's system, while Hinch -- who reportedly didn't approve of it -- was just another employee, powerless to fight the system. Banging and whistling was about as advanced as ballplayers could get... remember, this is a culture constantly seeking an edge, whether it's chewing or dipping carcinogens, ingesting amphetamines, injecting steroids, or downing 5-Hour Energy.

Jeter Downs a Double IPA What is Wong with this GM? Wherever Verdugo... me neither

Once in a Bloomooning us

Agreed; I've never read so many bitter Red Sox fans -- with each other -- than in this offseason of suckitude. In an attempt to bring us back together, how about a friendly thread title competition? Here's my entry: Tanking in '20

Just Babe Ruth's statue, all by his lonesome... the Birds' major league Hall of Fame statues wouldn't let him pose with them on the other side of the fence.

Unless you're a Red Sox fan; we got comfortable seats 20 rows behind home plate at a Sox-O's game and stayed overnight at a nice hotel within walking distance for less than it costs for ancient, obstructed view seats and parking at Fenway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbBpinyqE-0