5GoldGlovesOF,75

Not what I'm saying -- when I said it's improbable a team would give up anything decent right now, I was actually agreeing with you that a club like the Reds would refuse to swap their No. 3 starter for Bogaerts (even though both were stars last year). Unless it's two also-rans blowing it up and tossing shrapnel at each other, it's just highly unlikely any new viable prospects will be here by the end of the month.

Thread title is a misnomer, please change to Starting NO tation. This sprint season is good case study in what happens to a handful of big leaguers when they are forced to play with many minor leaguers against legitimate MLB teams. Even the Sox' former stars -- those talented regulars with World Series rings -- have struggled to compete and focus during such a lost cause. I'd bet many of them, like many fans, can't wait for 2020 to just end. The only guys who show spark are newcomers trying to prove themselves and earn jobs and respect: Verdugo, Arauz, Perez, Pillar. It backs the theory of always striving for some constant roster turnover, even on a proven winner.

Since the outcomes are no longer in doubt, will the Red Sox ever lead in a game this weekend?

Two reasons to keep watching: Verdugo beat out a DP grounder by hustling. Then Devers knocked some sense into himself -- banging his bat against his own helmet, then ripping an RBI-single.

Right now, the way the Red Sox are playing, there actually may not be a single player on the MLB roster that anyone will be willing to give up anything decent for. I'm serious; Bloom may actually have to think about dealing the Sox' top prospects -- Downs and/or Casas -- to get a minor league pitcher with the ceiling of a staff's #3 or #4 starter... that's MLB starter.

Since NY won't bat in the 9th, Boston pitchers only have one more inning to give up two more runs to reach our quota of at least 8 runs against per game. But I'm confident in this Sox team. I know they can do it. ... they didn't let me down.

Manfred recently said it's ok, but though it's begrudgingly accepted, it's really not ok in the "unwritten" book -- if a pitcher or catcher notices a baserunner peeking and sending signs to batters, they often answer by drilling either the batter or the runner in his next at bat. If the perp plays infield, he may get spiked, or kneed or elbowed in a takeout slide later on. No one forgets.

I totally respect your stance. But it has to be hard being a fan of a sport where base stealers try to get a better chance of stealing a base by stealing the signs of pitchers and catchers, who try to steal the signs of coaches to base stealers, to get a better chance of stealing an out.

99: When Red Sox Win, Kids Eat Free!

It would be better to watch. I know we've had this convo before... as a fan I want fun in my pastimes; of course, winning it all is the most fun, but I watched about half of those "86 years" without a title, and most of them were highly entertaining because the Red Sox always had -- and always made sure they had -- great players to watch. Losing Lynn and Fisk were inexcusable mistakes... Tiant and Pedro were past their primes... Nomar had to go... I thought Lester needed a change of scenery, too. As for Mookie... the Dodgers may not even win a single World Series in his dozen year contract (they haven't won in over 30 years). But because of him, I bet it will be more fun being a Dodger fan in the next decade than being a Red Sox fan.

Matching Cole with goose eggs through one full (albeit Cole 8 pitches, Brewer 89 pitches)...

They don't even use the c-word, since "stealing" has always been an actual legal term and concept in the sport. Pitchers and catchers and defenders have secret signs to deceive batters and baserunners... who have secret signs of their own... as coaches and managers on both sides spend bad portions of every game sending signs while trying to intercept opposition signs (and they all know the absurdity of sudden MLB decrees that they're only allowed to "steal" in certain ways). Nobody is really sorry for doing what they've always done as ballplayers since at least high school -- except PR departments that suddenly have to answer to mass media that never played the sport at an advanced level that panders to "shocked" portions of fandom that never played the game at advanced levels.

Cubs are having or soon to have "we can't sign them all" issues, too. But they haven't stopped spending. They're stuck with a bad longterm pitcher signing (Kimbrel) but they didn't let that force them to trade their best player. And they remain in contention...

Even if current and ex-players continue to forgive him for being a scapegoat?

But they paid Big Papi (who granted sometimes took what turned out to be team-friendly contracts). The Red Sox won three titles in the Ortiz era, but in all his other years that they didn't, the fans still had fun watching a great player perform, many times leading Boston into contention. Some franchises may not win a ring for 86 years, but it is the star players providing sustained hope that make this entertainment product worthy of our time and investment.

If only the Red Sox had a player so good that he could hit three home runs in a game six times by the time he was 27 years old...

Joe Kelly explains why he's still mad at the Astros -- and it has nothing to do with video or trash cans: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/joe-kelly-still-has-major-bone-pick-sign-stealing-astros-players Some choice quotes: "The people who took the fall for what happened is nonsense," Kelly told Stripling. "Yes, everyone is involved. But the way that [sign-stealing system] was run over there was not from coaching staff. ... They're not the head boss in charge of that thing. It's the players. ... When you taint someone's name to save your own name, this is one of the worst things that you could probably do. ... That really friggin' bugs me. I think I'll be irritated forever." "Maybe they have called [Cora] and said, 'Hey, I'm sorry,' " Kelly said. "... If they had said, 'Hey, I'm super-scared, I didn't know what to do, I didn't want to lose money, I had to rat.' ... Grow a pair of balls and say that." As a pitcher, especially of a team that lost in the postseason to the infamous '17 champs, you'd think Kelly would be more bitter about Houston's dastardly machinations. That he's not is perhaps a concession to pervading baseball culture. Despite what it says in Manfred's official report, it's becoming more apparent that the true "mastermind" in this whole "scandal" was Manfred, himself.

That was Kyle-breaking

That was Kyle-warming

Ara-ooooz

Pla!

Rookie hearing the no-birds

"but the turtles' dopey and casual attitude towards physical violence makes them poor kids' role models." Ok, I think I get the metaphor with the Red Sox' offense... (but what about rich kids' role models)

Can you throw a splitter?

I was definitely including the owners as part of the front office (if they're not sitting in it, then their Zoom faces are like Oz behind the curtain). It's all been a perfect storm for Red Sox rivals (especially NY, whose own "cheating" report disappeared...) Start with Sale's elbow a year ago, then losing Cora, which I think has had a bigger effect on some players than we may never know. Boston is now without its All-Star Game starting pitcher from '17 /'18, its other ace pitcher from '19, its two leaders in innings pitched from '16-19, its two fastest young relievers from '19, and its best all-around player from the past half century... We should give the Sox credit for actually winning 33% of their games so far. Ara-oooooooooooz!