oldtimer

All but the most optimistic fans have accepted that the team will not make even the WC slot this year. Most agree that the starting pitching is not getting the job done and the relief pitching quality is no better than average and that they have been overworked due to the starters not doing their job well enough. The discussion really should shift to what the heck should be done going forward and perhaps who should lead the team in that endeavor. Both discussions are now turning up, even in this thread. I remain in the corner of trying to field a competitive team in 2020 rather than blowing everything up. Clearly we have some underperforming contracts that will continue to weigh us down for quite a few years. I'm speaking of Price, Sale and Pedroia, and it is a legitimate question to ask whether the DD is the right guy to turn the team around given his history in these contracts. Who should we keep? The younger core position players and pitchers: Bogaerts, Devers, Beni, Vaz, E-Rod, Hernandez (both) Who are we on the fence with or have situations beyond our control with? Betts who would be a young core players for us provided he doesn't insist on the contract length and $ amount beyond his true value. Martinez because he is a possible opt out. Who are not young, core players but probably keepers? Holt, Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes Beyond those, many should be gone. Moreland (too fragile for the buck), Pearce, Leon, Bradley (too much $ for performance), Hembree, Porcello (Too much $ for performance) Others not clearly needing to be moved: Chavis (low cost with possibility of improvement), Travis (lower cost fill in player), parts of BP. What to do about management: The question of whether DD is the right guy to try to rebuild the farm system and to reset the payroll while maintaining a competitive team is a good one. I favor changing him after this season. The question of whether Cora and his coaching staff are the ones to drive this team forward is also legitimate. I am not convinced his style is the best but would stay with him for the time being.

He is also on the IL

We don't have the budget room to have quality hitters up and down the lineup. When we put up Chavis, JBJ and Leon down the bottom, we give away innings all too often. Whether we can make some improvements in the bottom of the order for 2020 remains to be see. We have a very solid core, just need to recognize areas of weakness and make an attempt to improve them each year. Of course it's really the pitching that is hurting us now and we are contractually committed to stay with Sale, Price and Eovaldi. Their contracts make it difficult to improve the pitching staff in general when in addition we have 3 position players raking in $20 mil or more.

If rebounding is going 3 and 2 on most batters. He is a nibbler plain and simple and will be lucky to complete 5 innings. We need more from him if he is our best starter these days.

I have been a fan since the 1940's and I too think we have been blessed with dominant Red Sox teams since the new millenium. We have had a lot of great and good players during that time and we should all appreciate them. That doesn't mean that fans shouldn't express their opinions when things go well or wrong. It is kind of a catharsis to share thoughts with other fans. Right now we have a team with a top of the line offensive capability but one that nevertheless could be improved in that way going forward. The Pitching has been our Achilles Heel this year with 32 runs given up in the last 4 games for instance. I don't think our pitchers blew their arms out pitching in the WS. Clearly what we do have is a number of pitchers getting high salaries (some with long contracts) who are not producing close to their pay level. Price, Sale and Porcello together are getting more money than the entire Rays team which just swept up at home. Those salaries and long term contracts may have won us the world series last season but clearly are an albatross around our necks going forward if they can't produce yet the money we aqre paying to them prevents us from making moves into 2020 and beyond. I don't blame JH for any of this as he has spent more than any other team. I do question DD and whether his approach of taking on these long term contracts and diluting our minor league prospects to such an extent was the best way to go. He can be faulted for the Panda's contract, which will finally be over this season and I am not certain of his involvement in the Pedroia contract, which was a sentimental one and it has turned into another money waster. Our BP also needs to be fixed but our financial situation and lack of trading chips hasn't allowed for us to be a player this year in strengthening our weakness there. Clearly so off season moves will be needed and while I am an advocate of keeping our strong core of young players I do think where we have flexability, we have to open up cap space but moving on from marginal players. The trouble with long term contracts is that they don't allow for flexability. When a team is underperforming, one has to ask if the decision making in the front office, in team management or in team coaching is leading in the right direction. Anyone who raises those questions can do so in a way that is inoffensive and I enjoy reading the opinions of other knowledgeable fans in those areas.

Cora says he is confident in the team and players he has. Might say he is a confidence man.

Looks like we threw in the towel for this year. We don't look to match up well with several teams. The new and very real question is how do we structure the team for 2020 and forward? Some general thoughts:: Clear some cap space by shedding contracts while keeping top young players to build around? If possible trade away underperforming starting pitchers and try to replace with younger and less expensive pitching talent. (Price, Sale, Eovaldi) 1. Porcello gone 2. Moreland gone 3. JBJ gone 4. JDM up in the air 5. What to do about Mookie 6. Pearce gone 7. Pedroia out of the picture 8. Leon gone 9. Chavis, Dalbec, Casas, others vie for 2nd and first 10. Bullpen actions, many required 11. Consideration of the value of GM, Managers, Coaches

Holt hit three to left field for instance while Vaz struck out when he needed contact. The tony Oliva's make contact and didn't need the HR to be valuable. Cora didn't have a lot of choice except Travis as Chavis probably couldn't have hit the heat. onto tomorrow.

Do I detect black humor here?

Good that you are not the GM.

brief recap Price has a long 3rd inning and comes out wasted in the 4th. That is troubling Cora leaves him in too long. Relief pitchers don't seem to know not to walk batters or situational baseball. Keep making mistakes they shouldn't. Many opportunities to score with RISP and less than two outs and didn't do the little things like hit behind the runner, instead maintaining a big swing. Devers, Beni and Travis had nice offensive games. Betts, Martinez, Holt, Bradley not contributing offensively. Another tough loss against a team we must beat. Can't blame Cora a lot except maybe for leaving High Price in too long.

Barnes is also the biggest head case of the bunch.. Why throw so many so far out of the zone?

Vazquez needed to put the ball in play to the right side but struck out. He needed to move Travis to 3rd as a minimum. Despite that, we managed to load the bases with a great hitter up, but wwe fell short. Pagan is good so we have our hands full, but its not over yet. Bogie, JDM and Beni coming up.

How many times have we had runners in scoring position with less than 2 outs. Crazy situation. We need something from Betts.

0 and 2 and then 4 straight balls. Pitchers seem to be head cases.

So the move worked. Beni struck out but it would have been a miracle to see him come through again. We need something out of JBJ and Betts next inning.

Price wore down in the 3rd and it showed up in the 4th. Didn't appear to have any stamina. The BP just doesn't seem to know baseball fundamentals.

Strategy again. Two strikes on a guy and three straight balls to let the runners go on the pitch. A single would have scored two. Also, the hitter knows he has to come in.

some strategy. Walk a guy with a one run lead and put up a good left hand hitter.

Beni has 3 homers in the last 3 games.

Sale and now Price. We have thel rely on these guys for years to come. The early season easy start hasn't helped and it is still July

Cora waited too long. Thirty two mil doesn't buy much these days

Two balls middle middle. Batting practice.

Wasted leadoff double. Cried out for Holt to hit the ball to the right side, JBJ is hitting 9th for a reason and Betts couldn't deliver. Hard to see a good opportunity wasted.

Price did well to get out of that after the 4 pitch walk and Devers blunder.