oldtimer

Hypothetical question: Would you rather have the best player in baseball (Mike Trout) contracted for 6 years at $35.54 Mil per year and a scrub player at another position or two very good field players at $17 mil a year with 5 year contracts? No doubt Trout is great and plays good defense, hits 300 and will come in this year with 45 to 50 HRs and 120 rbi. The two hypothetical players should be very good at that money, would hit probably 285 and come in with 25 HRs each. Clearly the risk is lower with two good players and you have a longer capable lineup. They might well match the performance of Trout and a scrub. We might well be facing a similar issue with Betts if he looks for over $30 mil. Our lineup at times got weak at the bottom of the order. Which is best?

Good post but a couple of questions. By Hernandez do you mean both the 2nd naseman and the relief pitcher? Trading one off of your trade 1 list looks tough. Who would take Pedroia? Doesn't JDM have limitations in his contract and who would pay $$ for a DH? Eovaldi maybe, but again $$ coming off a low value year. Can't see either Price or Sale drawing a lot of interest with their contracts. If tthe idea is to shed money, I find it hard to believe we could rid ourselves of any of those contracts. Do you have a list with projected salaries for next year with arbitration?

In that realistic view for 2020, it might be sensible to indicate what we have to do to structure the team to be competitive with the best. By that I mean the Astros and Yankees and perhaps also recognize the improvement of the Rays and even Cleveland. What have they done that we haven't matched, and what we would have to do to be competitve given our current contractual situations and weak farm system. Some questions that need to be asked: 1. The Astros appear to be strong up and down their lineup despite the fact they still have stars to pay. We appear to be weak in the lower part of our order with Chavis, JBJ, Leon, Travis there. Can we afford to strengthen the bottom and still pay our stars? I assume we have no star in the making for field player or catcher who can be better at least in 2020. Should we bring up potential players and see what they can do/ 2. The Astros have a very strong starting pitcher lineup. Our starters certainly haven't been nearly as good from April on and are probably on the decline, yet drawing high salaries. Porcello is replaceable. Price is probably not given his contract. Sale may find himself but is still unlikely to regain his ace level performance. So it looks like we have to build upon the starters of E-Rod and possibly Eovaldi. Will Sale regain some form and will Price wind up as a $32 mil 4th or 5th starter. Big problems here and no solution that is obvious. Is there also a management/coaching aspect to the negative direction of our starter performance? 3. Our BP is weak with Workman, Hernandez, Taylor being our more reliable arms (Hernandez is iffy if he can't throw strikes), where do we go? Hembree and Barnes has shown flashes but both can blow leads with wildness and perhaps an inability to handle pressure. DD's efforts to enhance the BP failed due to bad luck or bad vetting. Perhaps the coaching coupled with poor starter performances can be pointed at. 4. What are the scenarios, no matter how drastic, will be required to head us on the right path to making this team competitive again? Moon is the most acquainted with how the contractual situation will play out for the next few years and that will govern how much we can do. I assume we will want to reset below the first tier of the competitive balance tax in 2020. 5. Do the current leaders have the strengths needed to address the significant changes which are needed to compete with the best teams?

Benintendi's recent performance has been outstanding and he has lifted his overall performance to the equivalent of whatt he did on average last year. I expect his numbers for the year will be superior to those of last year.

I get that. The thing is when doing the comparison, there should be some band within which it is so close that it is about the same. Also, he used bad even when better, provided the number was on the low side. I agree with that part.

All depends on his willingness to make a deal that is equivalent to his worth. Maybe he gets traded at the 2020 deadline if we are not in it then.

Why do you pur Beni in the bad column when his OPS is essentially the same and he is playing well now?

Really, 2019 is no longer viable. Just a requiem.

Nothing sane JH could have done would have made a difference. If DD and Cora were unable to make the POs with the highest payroll and handpicked coaching staff, then adding another high priced player wouldn't have meant a lot. Time to move on.

I think a lot are still trying hard. To name a few, Bogaerts, Beni, Devers, and others.

Pretty soon, it would be wise to shut Sale down for a 10 day IL stint and let some AAA pitcher fill the spot. We aren't going anyway and Chris might get better with some time off.

Yes, but DD set up the long term contracts with Sale and Price. That led us to a WS last year, but I thought your approach to long term contracts is similar to mine. In the case of pitchers with a lot of mileage, the smart money is given in shorter contracts so that the club doesn't suffer for years when the pitchers start to decline.

I wouldn't blame anyone, but I would recognize that this team isn't getting it done and plan on making adjustments for next season. Part of the adjustments would entail getting rid of the weak spots in the lineup, particularly if they are getting paid well. Ditto with the pitchers, get rid of the weak spots, especially if they get paid well. It will not be possible with some pitchers who were given long term contracts. That said, I would really consider if the front office has a history of rebuilding teams after a downturn is experienced. Personally, I dont think DD is that kind of a GM. Thats no blaming him, just a recognition of his strengths and weaknesses. Its hard to make a judgment about the manager and coaches, but certainly the team has played below expectations for them for a good part of the year.

Good creative thought. Bradley will have to go primarily due to his salary.

Our offense is probably in remission. Kiss this game goodbye.

All but the most optimistic fans have accepted that the team will not make even the WC slot this year. Most agree that the starting pitching is not getting the job done and the relief pitching quality is no better than average and that they have been overworked due to the starters not doing their job well enough. The discussion really should shift to what the heck should be done going forward and perhaps who should lead the team in that endeavor. Both discussions are now turning up, even in this thread. I remain in the corner of trying to field a competitive team in 2020 rather than blowing everything up. Clearly we have some underperforming contracts that will continue to weigh us down for quite a few years. I'm speaking of Price, Sale and Pedroia, and it is a legitimate question to ask whether the DD is the right guy to turn the team around given his history in these contracts. Who should we keep? The younger core position players and pitchers: Bogaerts, Devers, Beni, Vaz, E-Rod, Hernandez (both) Who are we on the fence with or have situations beyond our control with? Betts who would be a young core players for us provided he doesn't insist on the contract length and $ amount beyond his true value. Martinez because he is a possible opt out. Who are not young, core players but probably keepers? Holt, Eovaldi, Workman, Barnes Beyond those, many should be gone. Moreland (too fragile for the buck), Pearce, Leon, Bradley (too much $ for performance), Hembree, Porcello (Too much $ for performance) Others not clearly needing to be moved: Chavis (low cost with possibility of improvement), Travis (lower cost fill in player), parts of BP. What to do about management: The question of whether DD is the right guy to try to rebuild the farm system and to reset the payroll while maintaining a competitive team is a good one. I favor changing him after this season. The question of whether Cora and his coaching staff are the ones to drive this team forward is also legitimate. I am not convinced his style is the best but would stay with him for the time being.

He is also on the IL

We don't have the budget room to have quality hitters up and down the lineup. When we put up Chavis, JBJ and Leon down the bottom, we give away innings all too often. Whether we can make some improvements in the bottom of the order for 2020 remains to be see. We have a very solid core, just need to recognize areas of weakness and make an attempt to improve them each year. Of course it's really the pitching that is hurting us now and we are contractually committed to stay with Sale, Price and Eovaldi. Their contracts make it difficult to improve the pitching staff in general when in addition we have 3 position players raking in $20 mil or more.

If rebounding is going 3 and 2 on most batters. He is a nibbler plain and simple and will be lucky to complete 5 innings. We need more from him if he is our best starter these days.

I have been a fan since the 1940's and I too think we have been blessed with dominant Red Sox teams since the new millenium. We have had a lot of great and good players during that time and we should all appreciate them. That doesn't mean that fans shouldn't express their opinions when things go well or wrong. It is kind of a catharsis to share thoughts with other fans. Right now we have a team with a top of the line offensive capability but one that nevertheless could be improved in that way going forward. The Pitching has been our Achilles Heel this year with 32 runs given up in the last 4 games for instance. I don't think our pitchers blew their arms out pitching in the WS. Clearly what we do have is a number of pitchers getting high salaries (some with long contracts) who are not producing close to their pay level. Price, Sale and Porcello together are getting more money than the entire Rays team which just swept up at home. Those salaries and long term contracts may have won us the world series last season but clearly are an albatross around our necks going forward if they can't produce yet the money we aqre paying to them prevents us from making moves into 2020 and beyond. I don't blame JH for any of this as he has spent more than any other team. I do question DD and whether his approach of taking on these long term contracts and diluting our minor league prospects to such an extent was the best way to go. He can be faulted for the Panda's contract, which will finally be over this season and I am not certain of his involvement in the Pedroia contract, which was a sentimental one and it has turned into another money waster. Our BP also needs to be fixed but our financial situation and lack of trading chips hasn't allowed for us to be a player this year in strengthening our weakness there. Clearly so off season moves will be needed and while I am an advocate of keeping our strong core of young players I do think where we have flexability, we have to open up cap space but moving on from marginal players. The trouble with long term contracts is that they don't allow for flexability. When a team is underperforming, one has to ask if the decision making in the front office, in team management or in team coaching is leading in the right direction. Anyone who raises those questions can do so in a way that is inoffensive and I enjoy reading the opinions of other knowledgeable fans in those areas.

Cora says he is confident in the team and players he has. Might say he is a confidence man.

Looks like we threw in the towel for this year. We don't look to match up well with several teams. The new and very real question is how do we structure the team for 2020 and forward? Some general thoughts:: Clear some cap space by shedding contracts while keeping top young players to build around? If possible trade away underperforming starting pitchers and try to replace with younger and less expensive pitching talent. (Price, Sale, Eovaldi) 1. Porcello gone 2. Moreland gone 3. JBJ gone 4. JDM up in the air 5. What to do about Mookie 6. Pearce gone 7. Pedroia out of the picture 8. Leon gone 9. Chavis, Dalbec, Casas, others vie for 2nd and first 10. Bullpen actions, many required 11. Consideration of the value of GM, Managers, Coaches

Holt hit three to left field for instance while Vaz struck out when he needed contact. The tony Oliva's make contact and didn't need the HR to be valuable. Cora didn't have a lot of choice except Travis as Chavis probably couldn't have hit the heat. onto tomorrow.

Do I detect black humor here?

Good that you are not the GM.