oldtimer
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Everything posted by oldtimer
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It is still likely that the season will be cancelled due to corona virus, based on the upsurge in cases around the country. We have seen large groups gathering for protests, riots, at bars and at block parties to name a few. Because of the transmissability of the virus it doesn't, didn't take much to push the number of cases up. I wouldn't be surprised if the newly agreed upon season craters.
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I have felt that way for some time and it looks like a combination of continuing virus impacts and the difficulty in negotiations may well eliminate the season altogether. It may also be true of other sports as well. Owners will lose money, I assume players will not be paid, the economic impact of the shutdown of many if not all large scale sports on the communities they serve, hotels and airlines they use. Once shutdown for a year I would imagine it will be difficult to return the sports at the same levels as the past. Lots of bad blood, etc.The corona virus will not be licked until a vaccine is developed and put into common use. Maybe sports will need to reinvent themselves and become more fan friendly. It's difficult for me to relate to a person who gets paid $1000 for each game pitch he throws. I imagine others feel similar sentiments.
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There has been a ton of anti-owner sentiment on this site with very little accountability going to the players. The fact is that it costs a lot to go to a game these days and attendance numbers have been reflecting that. Costs have spiraled and both ticket prices and concessions,including parking, are high. I paid $50 a ticket for a ST game with very few top red sox players present. The middle class families cannot afford the current costs. We need more exciting baseball, lower costs and less labor strife to keep the game meaningful to the fans. That will eventually mean lower salaries if attendance figures continue to decline.
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I include this U-tube address. Drag bunts can be exciting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVJXTfamsY
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How about a hitter who could lay down successful drag bunts. The bunt seems like a lost art these days.
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There was no give from the players either, after it became evident that there would be no fans allowed. They also stand to lose if there is no season and if they strike in 2021 there might be reduced salaries or none at all. Its a pipe dream to assume the players could develop a league of their own and be successful. What I hear on this site is that it is all the owners fault for not agreeing to a money losing arrangement. In my view, the players are equally at fault and stand to lose a lot as well.
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We are seeing new spikes in some states. Small wonder with the protests and riots on the one hand and the carelessness exhibited at bars, pool parties and the beach as reported on TV. I would guess a large number of people are still, observing social distancing, hand cleaning and face mask use, but many don't. It could well doom any world series if we get a strong return of the virus in the fall. I doubt if cooler heads will prevail during the negotiations. A 50 game season won't be satisfying and will hurt the game long term. It may be best to let the season go and better luck in 2021, provided there isn't a prolonged strike to kick off next year.
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It looks like a reasonable offer from the owners, with some give. Lets see what develops.
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Clearly the situation has changed due to the virus. The pie is smaller so the slice should be smaller. Makes sense to me although the players have a point in saying they want to see the club financial statements to understand how big the pie is. As far as the number of games this year, the players offered 114, which some believe are possible. I would think something around 70 would make sense while Manfred is at 48. Lets hope they reach agreement. From the information leaking out, owners and players are close on the opt out definition. Still, I think it will come back to money, it always does.
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Big surprise with Yorke. Don't understand the reasoning.
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You are right, there are a lot of potential reasons for sticking points and as fans not in on the negotiations, we can only guess. I was assuming the regular season could not start before mid July and would be over in very early Oct, with a playoff to follow. I see that as more of an 80 day period with maybe 70-75 games max. I assume there would be a playoff. I don't see how the players or you believe a season until the end of October works out and they get 114 games with a much higher prorated pay. Are you assuming no playoffs or those beginning in November and running up to the election. Too late for my thinking. The opt out is also clearly a question. If a player can opt out by only indicating someone in his household is At Risk, and still get full pay, how many would choose that option leaving the owners with a large bill and no players.
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I don't think the offer of a 110 game season starting in mid July is all that sensible.
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There are always dopes that yell ethnic slurs from the stands. I sat in the stands at Fenway from the 1940's on. I have heard slurs about Polish, Italian, Latinos and African Americans. I have also seen the love for players like Yaz, Big Papi and Manny. By far, most of the fans are civil and don't engage in name calling.
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You seem to have an anti-owner bias. The players counter proposal was not sensible. Maybe behind the scenes negotiations are underway and that a shortened season will start sometime in July. Since they will need to get arranged and started and then have a 3 week spring training 2, the earliest may be mid July. Would that allow for a 70 game season with prorated pay? Will players accept 70/162nd of their contracted pay? I don't really feel that we will have a season and I am okay with that.
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Ted I am 79 and also share your sentiment about not playing. If they reach agreement by each giving in on some points then I am happy enough to watch games on TV. No fans in stands. The most I see is an 82 game season. If they can't negotiate in good faith, then I will find other avenues for my sports entertainment. i also think we should avoid bringing in political topics here as there are more suitable places for those discussions.
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The short season would be a boon for the Sox. Didn't the players ask for allowing any player who had an at risk person at home could elect to opt out at full salary. What is the definition of an at risk person. That is another non-starter. I hope Kimmi is right about some MLB this year but it looks less and less likely.
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I don't see how that can work. The best scenario, and one that possibly could be agreed to is a shortened season of around 81 games with the players salaries prorated based on the number of games played. That would require both sides to give. The owners paying as if the seats were filled and concessions business booming. The players would have to accept 1/2 their contracted salary before the virus changed everthing. Both sides bargaining positions are set based on not losing as much money. The fans be damned is the attitude as far as I can see. That is why I really don't expect a season at all this year. The big bucks players are probably set for life anyway so loss of their millions can be accepted, but the marginal players will see a year of earnings (maybe their only year) go out the window while all this reaches its conclusion. I can play softball and play the horses for entertainment and let this thing play out without much chagrin.
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Major league baseball is a business with multi-millionaire players, obnoxious agents and multi-billionaire owners. They argue over who gets what share of the proceeds but seem to overlook the fans. They do that at their own peril, as I for one would accept the loss of this season to the virus pandemic and let MLBB return as best it can next year. If the owners and players take a hit financially, they would have it themselves to blame. I play softball year round and can get my kicks that way. Its more real anyway.
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The way I understand it, thecontracts are now based on a prorated amount of the total salary committed to earlier based upon the fraction of games played. At 82 games, players would get 505 of their salary, however if 100 games were played the players would get a largeer fraction. The owners are saying wait a minuted, a large fraction of our income comes from ticket sales and concessions. That is not to mention, the fixed costs associated with owning a club. So the owners make a lot less but the players don't want to share in paying for that loss. If it was the reverse situation and the owners were making a lot more, would the players not be looking for a share of the new found income? I think the owners have a reasonable argument regarding players sharing the cost of the lost revenue.
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You seem to be the primary poster these days. How you stay excited enough to bother escapes me. As far as I am concerned the season is toast and they can pack it in now. The product they could offer will be second rate. Do them all good to sit out a year.
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Some kind of watered down baseball being played is good for the Sox in that our CBT will be reset and the Mookie/Price trade won't hurt us as much. It will be hard to see the game in any serious vein but it probably will go on without fans present.
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Whats going on is known as negotiations. Not unusual that each side will use all the tatics available to them.
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I seriously doubt if any club is going to come up with more than $19.5 mil per year for a DH in the new reality of baseball contracts. I think JD will remain with the Sox for the next 2 years and that is a good thing for us.
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Lots of Kim's and Lee's. Hard to botch those.
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Interesting point. Is the outbreak due to weather or due to a large number of kids being thrown together in close proximity that causes the outbreaks. One would think that nrthern latitudes and places where schools are in session in warmer climates might answe these worts of questions. Baseball does appear to want to start games in June, probably with no fans in attendance and move forward on a scheduled implementation to adding fans. We shall see.