oldtimer

I am guessing June

In any negotiation, no side goes in with their best proposal. An offer is made and then a counter offer is proposed. I don't see where the Players Association is making any counter offers. They are coming in with it's either my way or the highway. The way things are going, there will be a significant delay to the start of the season. From what I read of the recent posts, the flavor is the owners are a bunch of greedy crass people and its their approach that is causing all the issues. I don't share that view and think there is blame to be levied on both sides. The result will probably be a delay of months and that will turn off the fan base, cost players, owners, workers and municipalities lots of income. Good faith bargaining is needed but isn't happening.

Not much progress today. An offer made by MLBB but other than saying it was unacceptable the Player union hasn't yet countered or negotiated. Not a good sign for early resolution.

The results from the meeting today will be a litmus test for how the season will go forward. No real progress today will mean games will be missed.

From what I read, Betts numbers are already falling off, perhaps due to his hip injury. I doubt he proves worth the kind of investment the Dodgers made ( $365 mil) let alone the trade value they gave up plus eating half of Price's contract. At $30 mil per year for 10 years, our offer was already more than generous.

I don't see it as collusion at all. This is just an industry group developing a plan they think they can live with it an offering it to a players union who is also asked for their opinions. I have no faith there will be good faith negotiations on either side. That would mean making concessions on both sides. This appears to be a case where neither side is willing to make meaningful concessions. This situation could lead to a long outage until the financial pain brings more cooperation for the long term good of baseball.

My take is that the owners are a group of relative equals who get together and discuss the various points of contention for them in reaching an agreement with the players union. They have a template to start with which is the previous CBA. I would wonder if they have a majority vote on issues or whether you they tend to support the most conservative among them when developing a offer plan. On the other hand, there are a lot more players involved and with probably a lot more disparate issues. What's good for a first year player, a star or a player getting into their last playing years has to be quite different. Do they have a democratic majority vote on offerings? The players get advice by their representatives, but self interest might trump providing a united front. The mediator process described by MVP sounds correct and one would assume the series of meetings outlined would take a while to accomplish. Any plan facilitated by the media would have to be passed back to both the owners group and the players union. There is also the case where the plan the mediator develops after his meetings will be rejected by one party or another. With the clock ticking, I don't personally expect that the season will start without some delays.

With the owners requesting a federal mediator, some settlement will be proposed to the Players union. They may choose not to accept it, but then would appear to be the party holding up the agreement such that the sentiment would turn in favor of the owners. I wonder how long it will take to mediator to recommend a plan. We are already close to the CBA impacting the season so it would be good to see real progress, but I doubt that will happen.

We had high expectations of Hanley Rameriz when he came to the Sox to play left field and paid him accordingly. He may have been the worst defe3ensive outfielder the Red Sox ever had and was erratic at the plate. We paid a lot and certainly didn't get a lot in return.

I would expect the back and forth proposal and counterproposal with each leading to some progress. If both sides remain seriously interested in a resolution, perhaps it can get done by mid February.

Here is mine: 40's Bobby Doerr 2B 50's Ted Williams LF 60's Carl Yazstremski 1B 70's Carlton Fisk C 80's Wade Boggs 3B 90's Nomar Garciaaparra SS 00's David Ortiz DH 10's Mookie Betts RF 20's Enrigue Hernandez CF I am not certain of the rules, but if they ever played the position for the Sox and if they played during the era I put them in.

There have been no repeat WS winners in over 20 year. The Sox have the most in that span while the Giants have the most since 2010. Some of the CBT and its penalties appear to be working.

NBC doesn't do horse racing well. They only want to do the color and lose the essence of what horse racing fans like about the sport.

I pitched two 7 inning softball games yesterday in a 70's league and then stayed up to watch the college football national championship. That went 4 hours where the normal pro game goes 3. More ads and wasted time. Hard to watch, even on mute. Kind of an ordeal for someone on the verge of 81. The hope is we will start to see action on the CBA talks so we can do more than read Moon's speculations on trades. If he makes enough, like the monkey on the typewriter, he is bound to get something right.

Neither side seems willing to make a proposal which cedes any ground in the negotiations. All or nothing means no deal, so compromise will be needed by both sides to break the deadlock. A salary floor and a slightly rising luxury tax might be an area for agreement. I wonder if MLB is worried about TV revenues diminishing such that additional spending could cut into their profits.

I don't think Duran was given a reasonable shot last year. He got multiple at bats but in many cases they were broken up with idle periods. There was also a lot of talk about his deficiencies defensively but what I actually saw him do was make the plays available. There were continuous calls to trade him on this site from guys that wanted us to give more time to others who were abject failures on a daily basis. I am for giving him additional time to show whether his speed and power can be useful to the team. I think Suzuki would be a reasonable gamble for the team. There will be a lot of competition for him though, so we may not win and should also think of alternative right handed outfielders if the Suzuki deal doesn't get done. I still wonder what we will do with JBJ. That deal just didn't make any sense to me.

Look what the average Joe makes!

Is it possible Renfroe refused to be vaccinated and was traded for that reason?

Ticket prices could be forced down if fan interest wanes enough. The baseball hierarchy should include the fans when making their calculations. It doesn't appear that is the case.

Clearly they wanted to sell high on Renfroe. I didn't like the return with JBJ and two so so prospects. Why not include him in trade talks for someone who could help us in 2022? I expect the Sox to go out and acquire a good right field replacement who fits the long term plans Bloom often speaks about. Anyone available will also be sought after by other clubs so it might be just money or money plus prospects. Who would we give up for a high quality right fielder? Speculation may run rampant but nothing can happen until the two sides really agree to negotiate in good faith.

It will only be improved defense if he can hit enough to stay on the field, which I doubt.

So why on earth did we pick up JBJ's contract? Don't tell me the prospects were worth the plunge, I don't buy it.

Each of us needs to make that value judgment. I have been a fan for a very long time but am often frustrated by both the owners and the players who treat fans with little consideration. How many extra fans are out there willing t shell out the big bucks for seasons tickets? I would be for lower salaries and profits so that the product would become more affordable.

Still the most inciteful article I have read on CBA negotiations. https://www.si.com/mlb/rangers/news/why-mlb-lockout-wont-end-anytime-soon

The owners are in a position to take the long view over the entire period of the CBA, where the players begin to hurt when their pay checks are not forthcoming. I doubt if the season begins on time with more of a May or June start after a protracted dispute period. The top end players are doing incredibly well financially these days, its the new and marginal players that should be looking for concessions. Boosting the minimum salaries, finding ways around holding ready players back to delay arbitration eligibility are two things the union should pursue. Usually, when you bargain for something, you should be willing to cede some other point. The question will be how flexible will each side be in the negotiations. Some on the site are blatantly anti-owner, but both sides are capable of helping to settle this for the good of the fans and the sport.