oldtimer

Remember the first game of the season, when our relievers let us down? Kelly seems to have cycled from excellent back to untrustworthy, especially for the 8 inning protecting a small lead.

When I suggested Beni needs to make some adjustments to get out of his slump, particularly not being able to hit the high fastball, it was treated like I committed a mortal sin. We need him to get back to the tremendous high on base percentage guy he was for more than a month. I know he can do it, but he needs to before he sinks much further. Probably easier pitchers coming and I understand he will get a rest as part of Cora's 1 day rest periods.

I doubt if we do anything with JBJ this year but leave the decision until the 2019 season.

Price isn't going anywhere so don't believe for a minute that can happen. DD made that acquisition and now we have to live with it. There is some value there, just not close to the contract we took on. Just another of our poor acquisitions. Most of us here disliked the contract and were outspoken about it. Kimmi doesn't like long term contracts in general and this one was for a past prime pitcher so worse than most. He will give us innings and probably have good games against weaker teams so we just have to live with it.

Price had an awful game and I had commented on him previously. Beni has cooled off somewhat as well and it is worth a comment whenever anyone in the lineup is beginning to struggle. This is afterall, a team game.

Beni is still somewhat inexperienced so when the pitchers find a way to cool him off, he needs to make an adjustment and he will. I don't count games where the team faces legitimate aces, as the entire team will struggle, but when the team racks up hits and runs and a guy strikes out, then there is something going on that needs adjustment. In Beni's case it seemed to be the high fastball that started to give him trouble.

Sale would then pitch the wild card game which would make him available for 2 games max in the playoffs. With one real ace, winning the division gives us the best chance to move forward.

We knew it would be tough facing Severino followed by the Yankee BP. Our hitters are more than struggling and I only remember one hit and that was by Beni. Our hope was that Price could hold the Yankees down. The game is lost so please don't use quality pitching tonight. On to Washington tomorrow to face another Ace. We will wind up essentially tied for 1st so we aren't in any dire situation. It des remind me that we should pull out the sstops to win the games where we have the advantage because there will be games where we will be at a big disadvantage, like this one.

I was given a lot of guff when I said the other day that I really didn't like Price's contract and that I thought he was a 3rd starter type at best. Well, not to pile on a guy that had a bad game, but he has mainly a fastball, cutter and changeup. The fastball location was bad tonight and the Yankees destroyed it. He is the kind of pitcher that can give us a lot of innings and can prevail against the weaker teams with run support, but I can't see him winning in the playoffs. I just hope we don't wind up giving another older ex-ace pitcher a huge long term contract. It doesn't end well.

Exactly. In this game, it should be swing away.

They always seem to develop pitching. Wish we could do as well with pitcher development.

I used the word in relation to the use of the string word "Rising". He certaining isn't rising now and he isn't treading water so what is he doing/

I don't think that is the correct way to think about it. a better way might be what does he take away compared to the average defensive CF we might have. Certainly he doesn't make plays the average wuldn't make several times a game. He is exceptional so I would expect an advantage over an average guy but it is easy get carried away with the hype.

Maybe he read the thread

He is in a small slump. He just needs to adjust to what they are doing. He has a good eye and a sweet swing. I had hoped he would adjust while at Yankee stadium and take advantage of the short right field. Tough pitcher today so they all may have problems.

Beni is continuing a slow decline. Maybe having trouble with the high fastball. More strikeouts then normal.

Pitching and defense. Good for them

Do you think we got an Ace in Price? In my view, he is a #3 starter at best and didn't really help us much until recently.

I am not a fan of long term contracts for players 30 and over and that is especially true for starting pitchers, who tend to be fragile. The going market rate for quality starters is very high and so are their contract expectations. We have tended to be a good performing team, at least the last couple of years and find it hard to draft quality pitching prospects and have been unlucky with Groome along the way. We have had to trade for the starters and to some extent our relievers as well. I have really disliked certain contracts, not necessarily because the guy involved is/was low quality, but because the guy involved isn't likely to produce enough to warrant his contract over the length of it. Price is the poster boy for insane contracts. Seven years at over $30 million a year. We could have done much better with the resources. Dustin Pedroia's contract is also hard to understand. Giving an older and injured player a longer term contract was driven by emotion, not by expectations of production. The contracts for Rameriz, Craig, Sandoval and Castillo have also been limiting to the team and show ineptness in the front office. They are continuing to hurt us and will until they all clear. We have developed some very good field players and need to keep that core moving forward if that is possible. We have to be judicious giving large long term contracts, but in Mookie's case, the market will determine what we have to pay or lose him. We have essentially gutted our minor leagues trading for assets that have put us in a win now situation. There have been some injuries to relievers coming in and that is either bad medical staff homework or just plain bad luck. Looking at what both the Yankees and Astro's have, it appears they have the advantage on us now and no doubt will use their assets to get even stronger this year, while we will be forced to tread water or trade a high paid asset to clear some cap room. We have to hope our starters will continue to do a decent job, while field players like Devers and JBJ give us an improved second half. The message should be loud and clear. Don't repeat the mistakes of the past by bringing in aging players on long term contracts. Don't let emotion get in the way of letting reasonable contracts. Accept what we can do with our limitations. Those will be with us for a few more years, but for heaven sake, don't repeat them.

Best to use Haley here and let the Yankees pad their stats. Save our higher quality guys for a winnable game. The concern is that our lineup didn't produce tonight.

Kind of a silly proposal. Giving away high quality and young field players for a pitcher, no matter how qualified is a road to oblivion. Starting pitchers play once in 5 days and can be fragile. Don't get me wrong, I would love DeGrom but we don't have what I would take to get him without giving up our future.

We are competing with the Yankees and Astros to be sure. Up and down their lineup they have very good hitting talent and their pitching is also good. No doubt they will try to improve. In the Yankees case they have quite a bit to trade for a starter and I am not sure what the Astros need, probably relief pitching. Meanwhile we still have question marks in our lineup, particularly at 2nd base and Pedroia's return is questionable. He may not return at all or if he does he may be a shadow of himself. Our relief pitching also could use a boost. We all know the issues. Not much trade bait and no real luxury tax limit flexibility. It is what it is and DD has tried to react as well as he can with Phillips and Pearse. Quality older players who might help us for the 2nd half of the season and not the following year. Let us hope we can do enough pretty much with who we have now to advance in the playoff.

He got through the middle of the order pretty well. I expect him to go into the 6th and then see if he can get through it. He is a young 5th starter who figures to improve.

Lot of generalizations there. Yes, he did miss on a few of his pitches, but not everyone as you seem to indicate. My problem with him is that when he gets ahead 0 and 2 he seems to try to get the hitter to swing at balls off the plate. Then its 3 and 2 and he has to come in or walk the batter. Bad idea. He has good velocity and a cutter that is pretty good. He does need to learn to pitch. Something CC seems to have done even though now his stuff is marginal.

We need to include the entire team in this discussion and in that we have Beni, Bogaerts, Devers, Martinez and other starting pitchers, including Price and his large contract. Those and the other relief pitchers and utility players. With a team full of long term top heavy contracts it means a lot of guys will have to be on the cheap.