Nick

So desperate Dave didn't go for the deal? Amazing.

My post was for smart Sox fans only. If you have to be told 'sarcasm', well it's no fun. Yes I'm aware that Owens was removed from our 40 man roster. Based on % of failures to reach major league, it's always a better bet to trade young ones for known talent. DD apparently is not as bold as many of you think. It doesn't take much to skill to give away Henry's money to a free agent, Martinez.

Look on the bright side, we've kept all of our farm hands. Maybe Owens will now pitch to his potential. Because we all know that Sox prospects all pan out. Hang onto them tight.

ding ding ding.....we have a winner.

So you are saying that he's a liar. This is by far the most disappointing post coming from you. Because you don't like the way he traded away your precious farm boys, you don't trust the guy that runs baseball operations for your beloved Sox? Desperate Dave from Larry, Lying Dave from Kimmi. Good to know.

We were fortunate how Pom's season turned out last year. It didn't look good early. He turned out to be healthy and had his best season. Maybe we can expect the same from Price in 2018. We should compete for a playoff spot with strong pitching from Sale, Pom and Price. Porcello certainly can't do much worse. Ultimately Price's health holds the key. Our pen should be fine as long as Kimbrel is healthy. Maybe the cheapest and most effective route is to sign Nunez and come up with a patchwork of starters, platooners. This will keep our payroll flexible and allow us to make big moves at trade deadline.

I'm pretty sure I read DD plans to use Hanley at 1B. Do we ever pay attention to what he says? I've not heard mgmt say anything about Devers to 1B. But we spend countless space talking about his impending cliff, oops, impending move to 1B.

This is what some always seem to forget. It's the delta not the absolute value lost. Basketball fans always worry about losing a 20 point scorer. The team is NOT going to score 20 less points a game next year. Someone else will score. Just not at 20 point clip perhaps.

If we replace Kimbrel, Xander and Porcello with cheaper opions, we can probably keep JBJ. We probably need to shed $50M from this group in order to sign or have signed , FA power bat for 2018, extend Pom, extend Sale and extend Betts.

Good stuff Moon. Kimbrel, Xander, JBJ, in that order based on your salary projection is where I would look for cheaper alternative. Porcello is a no brainer. His $20M would come off of my books and be replaced with someone with league minimum, eliminating $20M off of our payroll. You have to pick and chose your battles.

You ignorant little dip s***. Quit being such a whinny little pussy. Now that would be a childish response to your post. I just don't see that much of that here. I simply ignored back and forth between Moon and a700hitter. It was giving me a headache. It has been a slow winter so far. Not much news to discuss. Hang in there Hitch. More the merrier.

Your point on Betts is missing one key point. His last arb might be $20M, so keeping him or replacing him in kind, will add $10M to the budget. I'm not missing anything. What I said was we're willing to pay that additional $10M to sign Betts, bringing his 'budget' to $30M per year. But if we don't sign him, we still have $30M in budgeted amount, not $20M. I don't understand your point.

There's too much conflating of signability of our young players with our total payroll as it relates to impending cliff. Issue with Betts for example is will he sign with Sox when he becomes a free agent? I'm pretty sure we won't be outbid by 'significant' amount for his services. Thus money required is 'set aside' for Betts. If he signs with another team, that money is still available. Where's the cliff? We're simply use that money to sign someone else. Choice is not Betts versus NO ONE as doomsayers want us to believe. We're also forgetting salaries that will be coming off our books in couple of years. Obviously LIKE ANY OTHER TEAM, we can't pay top dollars for everyone of our players that's looking to become free agents. I just don't see us fighting for last place any time soon.

Trade Groome.

After 2018 Kimbrel $13M Pomeranz ?????? Kelly ????? After 2019 Sale $13.5M Hanley $22M Sandoval $19M Porcello $20.6M Xander ?????? After 2020 Betts ???? JBJ ?????? Vazquez ????? C Smith ?????? After 2021 Pedroia $13.75M E Rod ????? After 2022 Price $31M Beni ??? After 2023 Devers Biggest gut check time will be after 2019 season. With all the experts on this board, and I mean that sincerely, we can push back the cliff. Anyone remember the movie Disclosure with Michael Douglass? I suggest we nominate Moon or Kimmie to be the 'A Friend' and send DD board's consensus on what the Sox need to do to stay relevant beyond 2020.

For many of us, Devers came out of nowhere. We knew something was up when there were rumors to the effect that Moncada was expendable because we had someone better at 3B. All the sudden, we have 11 controllable years from Beni and Devers. Thats' how quickly things work out. Free agent signings this fall will say much about Sox thinking on Sam Travis. Has his value dropped THAT much? Or is it still related to after affects of injury sustained two springs ago? As mvp78 pointed out, it won't cost us $30M x 3 to sign Xander, JBJ and Betts. I'm not sure I'd give Xander a $20M contract. He is not worth that money as of today. Cliff is a moving target. I know one thing. With $200M+ annual budget, we are better equipped to deal with it than majority of teams.

Loony Larry with his daily rant.

I know that yo directed your question to jacksoniamarch. My point is if you can win 2 out of 3 with your top three, then you'll win the series 4-3. I'm not sure why it's that hard. Hell, obviously there are no guarantees. But the absolute best from Price, Sale and Pom looks pretty good.

My point is winning 2 out 3 with your top pitchers. Then, i'll take 50/50 chance with my 4th starter. You are not going to have advantage in all four spots. There's a difference between regular season and post season. You want elite pitching in playoffs. Now my top three has not shown that it's elite, yet, but they are the best we have. I'll take my chances. Why don't you worry about your team? Let's compare your top 3 starting pitches' best seasons with my top 3 best seasons.

You need 3 solid starters for playoffs. It should be Sale, Price and Pom. If E Rod or Porcello is our #4, then we're in good shape. If the trio can't do it along with solid bullpen, then we're fast becoming the Atlanta Braves of 1990's. I guess there's a worse place to be in.

I get it that not everyone here is enamored with what's been done by DD despite winning back to back division championships. I'm going to give him a pat on the back because I think he did what he had to do. We also showed some restraint by resetting the luxury tax penalty rate in 2017. As Bellhorn04 points out, Sox has really struggled with developing young pitchers. And I'm not really sure why. You would have thought with God as our GM not long ago, we would have had plethora of young starters lined up. I'm still not buying the 'impending cliff' theory though. I would argue that 'varsity' team should on the average have one positional rookie or near rookie inserted into starting lineup every year. We're on target with this with additions of Beni in 2017 and now Devers in 2018. That's on the heels of adding Betts, Xander and JBJ in 2014/2015 seasons. Vazquez and Leon also came along at the same time. Sam Travis would have been another potential candidate for 2018 but I'm sure it's even a 50/50 proposition at this time. Maybe he'll recover fully for 2019 season. Blacke Swihart should have been in the mix by now but realistically he's behind Vazques at this point and may never recover. Concern now is that we won't be able to sign some of our position players when they become free agents. I would argue that any player lost via free agency should be replaced by acquiring another free agent. We have the money to do it unless it's spent all on starting pitching. Sox should also be able to insert a young starting pitcher every other year. I will pretend E Rod is our own guy, having acquired him via a trade for Miller. But this area has been our biggest failure and it's cost us dearly. Price, Pom and Sale additions were expensive in terms of prospects given up and/or contractual obligation incurred. We potentially lose out on Pom after 2018. Let's hope someone steps up for 2019. (no it won't be Groomes) I get what Kimmie is saying and I agree with her approach, it's also my Plan A. But failure to develop young talent on consistent basis in a TIMELY manner has made DD go to Plan B. And Plan A people don't like it.

Ever hear the term playing with sense of urgency, Larry? 3 last place finishes in 4 years. I do recall 3 years ago. I only watched games where E Rod started. He was the only bright spot on a miserable team. Desperate Dave has made my TV Sox watching more palatable the last two years. For me, it's all about entertaining myself. Thank you Desperate Dave.

I think we're in the same spot with Hanley at 1B as we were with Pablo and 3B last year. FO is 'hoping' Hanley can provide us with 130 games at 1B next year BECAUSE WE OWE HIM $20M next year.

I have not seen anything from front office to indicate Devers will not be our permanent 3B. Has anyone?

Go big or do nothing. Please don't half ass it. Brentz can DH when not filling in LF. Hanley can play 1B for 130 games. Find a suitable replacement for Pedroia at 2B as he recovers. We really don't need to do anything. Of course I would prefer we trade for Votto and Stanton and then sign Martinez. Don't waste big money on mediocrity. Save the money for later.